PR for Beginners(A Dutch Election Thread)

[D i p]

Alexandra van Huffelen is drawing ire for pretending that memos cannot be discussed if their initial non-disclosure is the subject of an ongoing investigation by a third party.

That's like saying "We cannot look for reasons why this important memorandum was lost, because we threw it away without writing down why we wished it didn't exist."

It seems that perjury has been committed and incorrect information has been knowingly passed to the Parliamentary Enquiry Committee. Why does Van Huffelen want to fall on her sword for Rutte? She is not even VVD...

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Dries van Agt (former PM) has left the CDA. Apparently his breaking point was the CDA's rejection of all 11 motions for asking Israel to stop hurting Palestine.

This man (90 years old) had been a member of the party for as long as it has existed (1976) - and its first leader. That party is moribund!

[Shrillland]

Dries van Agt (former PM) has left the CDA. Apparently his breaking point was the CDA's rejection of all 11 motions for asking Israel to stop hurting Palestine.

This man (90 years old) had been a member of the party for as long as it has existed (1976) - and its first leader. That party is moribund!

Wow....who knew a case of Covid would end up leading to a party's possible destruction?

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Maurice d'Hondt poll, so take it with a grain of salt.

Even so: CDA currently polling at 5 seats.

[Shrillland]

Maurice d'Hondt poll, so take it with a grain of salt.

Even so: CDA currently polling at 5 seats.

Well, tis part of the current trend. What intrigues me is that their voters are either heading to PVV or BBB, they seem to be making the most gains.

In the meantime, Hamer suggested on Tuesday that Rutte and Kaag form a coalition basis and let other parties join at a later date

In other words, a doomed VVD-D66 Minority Government that can't hope to get the Tweede Kamer's support.

[The Alma Mater]

Maurice d'Hondt poll, so take it with a grain of salt.

Even so: CDA currently polling at 5 seats.

Well, tis part of the current trend. What intrigues me is that their voters are either heading to PVV or BBB, they seem to be making the most gains.

BBB is not surprising; most of the CDA's traditional support comes from farmers.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Well, tis part of the current trend. What intrigues me is that their voters are either heading to PVV or BBB, they seem to be making the most gains.

BBB is not surprising; most of the CDA's traditional support comes from farmers.

It's the Omtzigt wing walking away, which was heavily represented in the east and north of the Netherlands. (Didn't Omtzigt outdo Hoekstra in some municipalities there?)

In other words, all that remains of the CDA now is the residu of its old, southern, KVP wing.

[Haccia]

BBB has asked "when will there be new elections"

So that's 1/150 members of parliament gearing up for new elections, and 75/150 to go.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

And this thing just keeps getting better and better:

(Dutch language link)
https://www.trouw.nl/cultuur-media/slob ... ~b3fd086f/

In December 2020, there was a documentary on Dutch public television, about the career of Sigrid Kaag.
It would appear that both the Dutch ministry of Foreign Affairs and D66 have pressured the makers to "adjust" the documentary here and there. That's
1) a violation of the charter of Dutch public television
b) a violation of freedom of the press
c) abusing public funds for party-political campaigning, otherwise known as a violation of election laws

The far right PVV got wind of this questionable practice, and asked question in parliament.
The CU minister Arie Slob vehemently denied that the independence of the journalists had been compromised.

Ehm... not so much, as now turns out. The VPRO (one of the public television broacasters) has complained about ministry and D66. And Slob now pretends that it was under time pressure that he provided incorrect information to parliament (which is a fireable offense) - sure Arie, it only took you seven months and complaints from the VPRO to figure that out?

Oopsie, detail: this "documentary" seems to have been a part of the election image of Kaag, just three months before the voters went to the polls.

Kaag is corrupt. And surrounded by party-political hacks who subvert everything to get their way. Slob is a stooge. So much for "the change in leadership" that was promised.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

And this thing just keeps getting better and better:

(Dutch language link)
https://www.trouw.nl/cultuur-media/slob ... ~b3fd086f/

In December 2020, there was a documentary on Dutch public television, about the career of Sigrid Kaag.
It would appear that both the Dutch ministry of Foreign Affairs and D66 have pressured the makers to "adjust" the documentary here and there. That's
1) a violation of the charter of Dutch public television
b) a violation of freedom of the press
c) abusing public funds for party-political campaigning, otherwise known as a violation of election laws

The far right PVV got wind of this questionable practice, and asked question in parliament.
The CU minister Arie Slob vehemently denied that the independence of the journalists had been compromised.

Ehm... not so much, as now turns out. The VPRO (one of the public television broacasters) has complained about ministry and D66. And Slob now pretends that it was under time pressure that he provided incorrect information to parliament (which is a fireable offense) - sure Arie, it only took you seven months and complaints from the VPRO to figure that out?

Oopsie, detail: this "documentary" seems to have been a part of the election image of Kaag, just three months before the voters went to the polls.

Kaag is corrupt. And surrounded by party-political hacks who subvert everything to get their way. Slob is a stooge. So much for "the change in leadership" that was promised.

While there are plenty of criticism to be made about this process, there is no need to believe the far-right conspiracy crap the PVV and FvD have been peddling.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Problem here is the far right 'theorises' always too far, but the counterargument always poo-poos too much.

Kaag is surrounded by ruthless corrupt people. She should not be leading a Queen's Day parade, let alone a ministry or a country.
The far right claims that this is part of Claus Schwab's plans for world domination. That's one tin foil hat short of a persecution complex.

Now why is there no-one decent to lead the country?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Problem here is the far right 'theorises' always too far, but the counterargument always poo-poos too much.

Kaag is surrounded by ruthless corrupt people. She should not be leading a Queen's Day parade, let alone a ministry or a country.
The far right claims that this is part of Claus Schwab's plans for world domination. That's one tin foil hat short of a persecution complex.

Now why is there no-one decent to lead the country?

Yes, there is; on the left. Trusting neoliberals was your mistake to begin with.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Problem here is the far right 'theorises' always too far, but the counterargument always poo-poos too much.

Kaag is surrounded by ruthless corrupt people. She should not be leading a Queen's Day parade, let alone a ministry or a country.
The far right claims that this is part of Claus Schwab's plans for world domination. That's one tin foil hat short of a persecution complex.

Now why is there no-one decent to lead the country?

Yes, there is; on the left. Trusting neoliberals was your mistake to begin with.

You mean Renske Leijten, then? Because Marijnissen is just an overpromoted daddy's girl.

[Juristonia]

Sorry, but that's nonsense.
I wasn't a fan of Marijnissen as leader (would've preferred Karabulut), but she's literally been born and raised within the party. She knows her shit and she knows it well.
The problem is the optics of having Marijnissen 2.0 as leader, which, along with the general stagnation of the party as a whole, has just been an uphill struggle for the SP in general.


Van Haga launched his new party. BV NL, which is hilarious and awful, so it's on brand.
Apparently it's going to be classical right wing, but liberal and not conservative, or something, which totally makes sense and none of this is a desperate ploy to stay politically relevant at all, nope.

[Frysdan]

BV NL is such an outdated concept.

Once upon a time (1994) the whole further than VVD right consisted of three measily CD seats. Now it is a splintered amalgamate of internal strifes:

FvD
PVV
BV NL
JA21

And that's 25 seats in all. 1/6 of the votes is far right and will be for the foreseeable future.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

-snip-

People’s Front of Judea? We’re the Judean People’s Front!

Politicians outside of the ordinary centrist liberal parties are typically there because they have, or find it useful to pretend to have, strong and uncompromising political opinions, which doesn’t lend themselves well to cooperation.

I think European politics is still trying to deal with the surge in far-right movements we’ve seen in the past decade or so. Once things settle down and it becomes the new normal for nationalists to sweep a significant minority of electoral support, things should hopefully calm down.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

-snip-

People’s Front of Judea? We’re the Judean People’s Front!

Politicians outside of the ordinary centrist liberal parties are typically there because they have, or find it useful to pretend to have, strong and uncompromising political opinions, which doesn’t lend themselves well to cooperation.

I think European politics is still trying to deal with the surge in far-right movements we’ve seen in the past decade or so. Once things settle down and it becomes the new normal for nationalists to sweep a significant minority of electoral support, things should hopefully calm down.

This is the Dutch we are talking about.

56% votes various degrees of status-quo (getting less and less)
16% votes various degrees of far-right (and has done so for the last 20 years)
10% votes various degrees of left (and that's not growing back any time soon)
18% votes "how the fuck do we get rid of ever the same policies?" from accellerationist to hard reset to minority-sectarian.

The one thing missing here is a party that unites and charters a moderately inspiring new course. Because ever more people are turning away from that 56%...
More than anything, Dutch voters need (in my opinion) a government they can trust, not a government that promises one thing and then does another thing, or makes up excuses for why they didn't follow through.

[Hurdergaryp]

People’s Front of Judea? We’re the Judean People’s Front!

Politicians outside of the ordinary centrist liberal parties are typically there because they have, or find it useful to pretend to have, strong and uncompromising political opinions, which doesn’t lend themselves well to cooperation.

I think European politics is still trying to deal with the surge in far-right movements we’ve seen in the past decade or so. Once things settle down and it becomes the new normal for nationalists to sweep a significant minority of electoral support, things should hopefully calm down.

This is the Dutch we are talking about.

56% votes various degrees of status-quo (getting less and less)
16% votes various degrees of far-right (and has done so for the last 20 years)
10% votes various degrees of left (and that's not growing back any time soon)
18% votes "how the fuck do we get rid of ever the same policies?" from accellerationist to hard reset to minority-sectarian.

The one thing missing here is a party that unites and charters a moderately inspiring new course. Because ever more people are turning away from that 56%...
More than anything, Dutch voters need (in my opinion) a government they can trust, not a government that promises one thing and then does another thing, or makes up excuses for why they didn't follow through.

If ever more people turn away from that 56%, why does it continue to be 56%? I'm no math wizard, so it is entirely possible that I am missing something.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

This is the Dutch we are talking about.

56% votes various degrees of status-quo (getting less and less)
16% votes various degrees of far-right (and has done so for the last 20 years)
10% votes various degrees of left (and that's not growing back any time soon)
18% votes "how the fuck do we get rid of ever the same policies?" from accellerationist to hard reset to minority-sectarian.

The one thing missing here is a party that unites and charters a moderately inspiring new course. Because ever more people are turning away from that 56%...
More than anything, Dutch voters need (in my opinion) a government they can trust, not a government that promises one thing and then does another thing, or makes up excuses for why they didn't follow through.

If ever more people turn away from that 56%, why does it continue to be 56%? I'm no math wizard, so it is entirely possible that I am missing something.

I meant that 56% used to be 58% four years ago, about 60% eight years ago, and 80% in 1989: the percentage is steadily declining, and nearing the end of its majority.

[Deep Dark Dust Dimensions]

Yes, Mods, I know it has been six weeks.

But we may as well revive this thread since this information pertains to the absolute lack of any progress in those six weeks.
May we please pick up where we left off a month and a half ago?

https://www.trouw.nl/politiek/de-format ... ~bab0a7b2/

Summary for those who don't speak Dutch:

VVD and CDA want a cabinet of VVD, CDA, D66, and either one left-wing party (GroenLinks, PvdA) or CU.

D66 wants a cabinet of VVD, CDA, D66, and both PvdA and GroenLinks.

VVD is counting on D66 to give in. D66 expects VVD and CDA to give in. And neither side is even close to blinking. There are also some medical-ethical issues, climate policy, and migration issues driving a wedge between VVD-CDA and D66.

To complicate matters, CU may not want to enter another cabinet led by Rutte (no objection to the VVD as a whole, just the man himself). And Groenlinks and PvdA are not just holding on to one another, they are tentatively exploring the chance of a fusion of the two parties.

Personal opinion:
What VVD and CDA want is not realistic and based on an outdated understanding of politics. Given that VVD and CDA are obstinately pro-Rutte and anti-left, what D66 wants is also utterly delusional.

[HC Eredivisie]

Good, a fusion of GL and PvdA would mean one less left party.

[Juristonia]

Yeah, because the right having been in constant power for the past 15 years or so has been going so well.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Good, a fusion of GL and PvdA would mean one less left party.

How would that change anything?

[HC Eredivisie]

Good, a fusion of GL and PvdA would mean one less left party.

How would that change anything?

There'd be one less party in the Tweede Kamer and in the coalition and then we'll just have to see if the voters like it in the next elections.

[Frysdan]

In 1972-1973, Joop den Uyl, leader of the most left-wing PvdA ever, committed himself to PPR and D66 "give us a majority, and this will be your new coalition government."

As that coalition didn't get even close to a majority, help was needed from the three centrist (Christian-Democratic) parties. KVP and ARP were reluctantly drawn into the coalition (CHU refused) and were numerically underrepresented in the government throughout Den Uyl's tenure.

Joop den Uyl's strategy toward the centrists was: divide the centrist parties by keeping one in the opposition, and keep dividing internally the other two. The Christian-Democrats responded by uniting, against all effort and expectation, into the CDA (1975).

One can't help but see a faint echo of those days in the way that PvdA and GroenLinks are teaming up, against all effort and expectation of Rutte & Hoekstra to keep them divided and definitely not both represented in government. The more Rutte resists a cabinet with both of them in it, the more they insist on being one.