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2020 French Terrorist Beheadings Thread

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:21 pm

The Restored Danelaw wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
You'd probably think it unfair if you were exiled for the crimes of people who share a trait with you though, right?

Collective guilt is bullshit.

If it was a trait I wasn't able to change, yeah probably.


So you think it fair to exile me from Australia where I live, for the crimes of other Atheists? Or you from your home for the crimes of whatever faith or creed you follow?

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:22 pm

The Restored Danelaw wrote:If it was a trait I wasn't able to change, yeah probably.

Changeable or unchangeable trait, holding innocent people accountable for the crimes of criminals is bullshit, regardless of what trait they share.
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:22 pm

Aeritai wrote:Well if there is one thing I learned from this thread, is that people are willing to punish innocents for the action of one.

History is repeating itself once again.

and pretty recent French history at that
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:23 pm

The Restored Danelaw wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
You'd probably think it unfair if you were exiled for the crimes of people who share a trait with you though, right?

Collective guilt is bullshit.

If it was a trait I wasn't able to change, yeah probably.

"renounce your deeply held religious beliefs or be punished for them"

what could go wrong here
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:25 pm

Senkaku wrote:
The Restored Danelaw wrote:If it was a trait I wasn't able to change, yeah probably.

"renounce your deeply held religious beliefs or be punished for them"

what could go wrong here


Historically speaking not a lot tbh. Several religions, including Christianity and Islam, partially spread via that very method.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:27 pm

The correct response, of course, is a giant Mohammad float outside of Paris.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:27 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Senkaku wrote:"renounce your deeply held religious beliefs or be punished for them"

what could go wrong here


Historically speaking not a lot tbh. Several religions, including Christianity and Islam, partially spread via that very method.


I think we're working under the assumption here that killing or exiling large populations for the crime of being similar to someone else and refusing to change is a bad thing. Historically, people didn't have much problem doing it to other people but it was still an atrocity.

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Dolgo
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Postby Dolgo » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:29 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:The correct response, of course, is a giant Mohammad float outside of Paris.


I wouldn't be surprised if it that is done so.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:29 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Senkaku wrote:"renounce your deeply held religious beliefs or be punished for them"

what could go wrong here


Historically speaking not a lot tbh. Several religions, including Christianity and Islam, partially spread via that very method.

well, I guess I'll leave it to the nation that had successful oversaw the seamless and peaceful process of revolutionary de-Christianization, then

(???? wtf are you about lmao "historically speaking" that's like... one of the main causes of war in all of history)
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:29 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Historically speaking not a lot tbh. Several religions, including Christianity and Islam, partially spread via that very method.


I think we're working under the assumption here that killing or exiling large populations for the crime of being similar to someone else and refusing to change is a bad thing. Historically, people didn't have much problem doing it to other people but it was still an atrocity.


Certainly I would say it's morally wrong, but given the already existing resentment and alienation the Muslim population feels for France it probably wouldn't result in anything too massive assuming the hypothetical came true. Which it won't of course because this is a liberal western democracy we're speaking of.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:29 pm

I seriously thought this is one of those Roleplays from International Incidents when I saw it in the Latest Forum Topics. This is seriously messed-up in the worst possible way.

-----

"What was the message he wanted to send these children?"

Ironically, the teacher might have been "wrong" in showing pictures, but you have proven yourself to be several times worse than that teacher ever might have "wronged".
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:30 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Historically speaking not a lot tbh. Several religions, including Christianity and Islam, partially spread via that very method.


I think we're working under the assumption here that killing or exiling large populations for the crime of being similar to someone else and refusing to change is a bad thing. Historically, people didn't have much problem doing it to other people but it was still an atrocity.

never assume that you are working from a common normative ground when speaking with a fascist lol
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:31 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
I think we're working under the assumption here that killing or exiling large populations for the crime of being similar to someone else and refusing to change is a bad thing. Historically, people didn't have much problem doing it to other people but it was still an atrocity.

never assume that you are working from a common normative ground when speaking with a fascist lol


>tfw literally identify with non-Marxian socialism
>fascist

This is why people say that word means nothing anymore lol
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:32 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
I think we're working under the assumption here that killing or exiling large populations for the crime of being similar to someone else and refusing to change is a bad thing. Historically, people didn't have much problem doing it to other people but it was still an atrocity.


Certainly I would say it's morally wrong, but given the already existing resentment and alienation the Muslim population feels for France it probably wouldn't result in anything too massive assuming the hypothetical came true. Which it won't of course because this is a liberal western democracy we're speaking of.

you're literally saying "what could go wrong" about expelling millions of people from their home, in a population where there's already evidence that radical networks have been able to find recruits in no small part thanks to existing social tension and perception of threat? while making blanket statements about what "the Muslim population feels for France"?

as for "things can't go wrong in a liberal western democracy".... I mean do I really have to say anything
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:32 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Senkaku wrote:never assume that you are working from a common normative ground when speaking with a fascist lol


>tfw literally identify with non-Marxian socialism
>fascist

This is why people say that word means nothing anymore lol

you must remember that I believe almost nothing you say any more
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The Restored Danelaw
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Postby The Restored Danelaw » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:40 pm

Albrenia wrote:
The Restored Danelaw wrote:If it was a trait I wasn't able to change, yeah probably.


So you think it fair to exile me from Australia where I live, for the crimes of other Atheists? Or you from your home for the crimes of whatever faith or creed you follow?

Not really, no. Just Muslims in particular. And only Muslims who refuse to assimilate into a society they migrate into.
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Postby Telconi » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:41 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
>tfw literally identify with non-Marxian socialism
>fascist

This is why people say that word means nothing anymore lol

you must remember that I believe almost nothing you say any more


Fascists generally don't.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:43 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Certainly I would say it's morally wrong, but given the already existing resentment and alienation the Muslim population feels for France it probably wouldn't result in anything too massive assuming the hypothetical came true. Which it won't of course because this is a liberal western democracy we're speaking of.

you're literally saying "what could go wrong" about expelling millions of people from their home, in a population where there's already evidence that radical networks have been able to find recruits in no small part thanks to existing social tension and perception of threat? while making blanket statements about what "the Muslim population feels for France"?

as for "things can't go wrong in a liberal western democracy".... I mean do I really have to say anything


Yeah it's no secret that the Muslim population in France fucking hates the nation and everything it stands for. It's arguably the single greatest example of why laid back assimilation doesn't work and needs to be active government policy that is rigorously enforced. France just allowed a bunch of self segregating and self radicalizing ghettos to form and this sort of stuff will keep happening for a long while because of it.

It also probably doesn't help a lot of those people came from nations that France played an active part in destroying.

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
>tfw literally identify with non-Marxian socialism
>fascist

This is why people say that word means nothing anymore lol

you must remember that I believe almost nothing you say any more


We could pop on over to the Marxist thread if you wanna chat about the topic I guess? Seems like kind of an odd position to take but you do you.
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The Restored Danelaw
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Postby The Restored Danelaw » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:47 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Senkaku wrote:you're literally saying "what could go wrong" about expelling millions of people from their home, in a population where there's already evidence that radical networks have been able to find recruits in no small part thanks to existing social tension and perception of threat? while making blanket statements about what "the Muslim population feels for France"?

as for "things can't go wrong in a liberal western democracy".... I mean do I really have to say anything


Yeah it's no secret that the Muslim population in France fucking hates the nation and everything it stands for. It's arguably the single greatest example of why laid back assimilation doesn't work and needs to be active government policy that is rigorously enforced. France just allowed a bunch of self segregating and self radicalizing ghettos to form and this sort of stuff will keep happening for a long while because of it.

It also probably doesn't help a lot of those people came from nations that France played an active part in destroying.
Aren't the bulk of them (barring the recent Syrians) Algerian Muslims? I mean can you blame them for hating France?
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Yorwick Daily: Celts in crig with the Anglo-Danes! KSM bombers lead wasting fieldtocht against Belfast, as well as stridecamps in Cork, Sligo. | Russish Udaloy-kind Forwaster Severomorsk, 3 smaller ships found off the Firth of Moray, Kingly Marine sends the Flydeckship HHS Queen Gunhilda III, Forwasters HHS Jarl of Northumbria and HHS Jarl of Myrce to offfang. | Carl Anthony, 4th Earl of Cornwall dies childless at the age of 89, Earldom goes back to the crown. Frage raised over the now-empty Witan seat. | Lunden Baker not selling goods to samekinders strafed for £75,000, made to close down shop for good. | 'The Moon's Wet!' newscasts all over the world say, as DCR finds water on the moon, setting aflame the frage of settling out in the worldroom once again.

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Sarderia
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Postby Sarderia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:48 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Certainly I would say it's morally wrong, but given the already existing resentment and alienation the Muslim population feels for France it probably wouldn't result in anything too massive assuming the hypothetical came true. Which it won't of course because this is a liberal western democracy we're speaking of.

you're literally saying "what could go wrong" about expelling millions of people from their home, in a population where there's already evidence that radical networks have been able to find recruits in no small part thanks to existing social tension and perception of threat? while making blanket statements about what "the Muslim population feels for France"?

as for "things can't go wrong in a liberal western democracy".... I mean do I really have to say anything

Gonna repost this.

Sarderia wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Riight? This is paralel to years ago when I'm still in middle school. When the religion teacher was going to teach about why Islam's account of Jesus is right while the Christians' is wrong, she kindly asked the Christians in the room to leave, which they did, and that's that. It was her duty to teach us the materials, yet disharmony is also taken care of.

For the issue to rotate among thr Islamists and eventually triggered the terrorist to act is astounding.

Overall, this attack is just the symptom of a larger problem. Say 2% of the Muslim population in France is radical (which is very generous, considering the recent survey here in Indonesia where 10-15% of the population wants the secular government to be overthrown and replaced by a caliphate, even though we're a secular country whose secularism was enforced by a military dictatorship for 30 years through various anti-Islamist policies). That's still 100.000 out of 5 million. Serious efforts must be made to neutralize this problem.

I think that they are also implementing serious efforts to neutralize these problems. The problem about radicalism - be it religious, or ideological like Communist/Socialist/Anarchist etc. is that they spread like wildfire. It only takes a few moment, perhaps a month or two or three to familiarize people with radical ideals, anything it is. Each government need to devote more resources in combatting these ideologies with ideologies. You can't kill of an idea - you're just creating martyrs for them. We need to fight fire with fire, arguments with arguments - once you prove them wrong it's a house of cards breaking down for the entire radical ideology.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:49 pm

The Restored Danelaw wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yeah it's no secret that the Muslim population in France fucking hates the nation and everything it stands for. It's arguably the single greatest example of why laid back assimilation doesn't work and needs to be active government policy that is rigorously enforced. France just allowed a bunch of self segregating and self radicalizing ghettos to form and this sort of stuff will keep happening for a long while because of it.

It also probably doesn't help a lot of those people came from nations that France played an active part in destroying.
Aren't the bulk of them (barring the recent Syrians) Algerian Muslims? I mean can you blame them for hating France?


Algerian and Libyan iirc, with some Syrians sprinkled in.

All of which have great reason to fucking hate France.
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:18 am

Aureumterra III wrote:Not much to add, was the teacher wrong in showing the pictures of Muhammad?


It was wrong to intentionally disrespect religious figures full stop. At this point it's no longer a matter of "free speech" but "how many Muslims can we piss off and then claim victimhood when they retaliate".
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The Restored Danelaw
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Postby The Restored Danelaw » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:20 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Aureumterra III wrote:Not much to add, was the teacher wrong in showing the pictures of Muhammad?


It was wrong to intentionally disrespect religious figures full stop. At this point it's no longer a matter of "free speech" but "how many Muslims can we piss off and then claim victimhood when they retaliate".

There is no claiming. If you do something legal and a Muslim decapitates you in public for it -no matter what- you're the victim. And no, it's not wrong to intentionally, or otherwise, disrespect religious figures.
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28 Oct 2020
Yorwick Daily: Celts in crig with the Anglo-Danes! KSM bombers lead wasting fieldtocht against Belfast, as well as stridecamps in Cork, Sligo. | Russish Udaloy-kind Forwaster Severomorsk, 3 smaller ships found off the Firth of Moray, Kingly Marine sends the Flydeckship HHS Queen Gunhilda III, Forwasters HHS Jarl of Northumbria and HHS Jarl of Myrce to offfang. | Carl Anthony, 4th Earl of Cornwall dies childless at the age of 89, Earldom goes back to the crown. Frage raised over the now-empty Witan seat. | Lunden Baker not selling goods to samekinders strafed for £75,000, made to close down shop for good. | 'The Moon's Wet!' newscasts all over the world say, as DCR finds water on the moon, setting aflame the frage of settling out in the worldroom once again.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:24 am

The Restored Danelaw wrote:
Costa Fierro wrote:
It was wrong to intentionally disrespect religious figures full stop. At this point it's no longer a matter of "free speech" but "how many Muslims can we piss off and then claim victimhood when they retaliate".

There is no claiming. If you do something legal and a Muslim decapitates you in public for it -no matter what- you're the victim. And no, it's not wrong to intentionally, or otherwise, disrespect religious figures.


Legality doesn't come into it. Something can be morally wrong and be legal at the same time.

For example, I could walk out onto the street with a loudspeaker and suggest that all LGBT people deserve to be exterminated like vermin. Morally speaking, it's wrong. Legally speaking, it's acceptable, as hate speech laws do not cover anyone outside of race, ethnicity, or national origin where I live.

Is it wrong for people to behead others in the street? Yes. Is it wrong for people to disrespect religious figures? Absolutely.
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Postby The Giant Space Wyrm » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:29 am

"I'm not liking the direction this discussion is making.

It's beginning to sound like because there exist radical elements within a religion we have to accommodate them so they don't do something stupid like decapitating a teacher? Are we recreating appeasement but Theologically?

So all a religion needs to do to get concessions off a government is start killing people so that everyone else has to find harmony with them by making new laws?"

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