"Sex-Work"

[Katganistan]

I don't understand the title of this thread.

Why is Sex Work in quotes?

My guess is at a not-too-subtle way to point out the OP does not think it legitimate, nor that it should ever be treated as legitimate work.

[Yawkland]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Has every society? Cause the Dutch don't seem to

[Neanderthaland]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Note that this argument does not even attempt to identify what that reason is. It just wants us to accept ancient behaviors on the grounds that they are ancient, and would erase all modern progress and result in endless injustice if it were applied constantly.

[Ethel mermania]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

I don't think the Roman's ever tried to make it illegal.

[Rusozak]

How can it be legal to buy but not to sell or vise versa? Nothing to buy if there's nothing to sell and vice versa.

[Ifreann]

Sex work is work. Sex workers should receive the full value of their labour and control the conditions under which they work, same as every other worker, and any and all moves towards that are Good™.

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I think being a pimp should be punishable by death and trafficked prostitutes shouldn't be arrested or imprisoned for any reason, but instead brought to a shelter to be helped.

Walk me through why a manager in that specific profession should be executed but not every manager in every profession.

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How can it be legal to buy but not to sell or vise versa? Nothing to buy if there's nothing to sell and vice versa.

Sometimes people do crimes.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Fully legal and regulated to protect the workers themselves and customers.

[Kowani]

How can it be legal to buy but not to sell or vise versa? Nothing to buy if there's nothing to sell and vice versa.

This explains it succinctly.

[Cordel One]

There's no reason to criminalize it. If you don't like it, don't engage in it but the people involved deserve legal protections.

[New haven america]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Because a lot of humans in general tend to be pretty sexually frustrated.

[Sundiata]

I've updated the poll everyone.

You have the "It should be legal to buy sex but illegal to sell sex, let me explain why." option listed twice.

Fixed.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I've never been comfortable with the idea. But I've never got it straight in my head, I think it's one of those things I was taught was wrong, but when I was too young to understand.

I've considered taking money for sex, on the basis "bad sex is better than no sex" but, to be frank, the opportunity hardly ever arises, and when it does, getting in some guy's car or going around to his house, feels like way too much risk.

I really resist paying money for sex. I've never knowingly done it, though I have been hit up for money by people I never knew were in it for money. They did it so casually, it's clearly a form of "low dollar, de facto" prostitution like a de-romanticized form of "buy me dinner and be nice for a couple of hours, and I might let you have sex with me" de facto prostitution. It wasn't that horrible, really: once the (supposedly consensual) sex is in the past, and just a good memory, an exchange of money does not much sully it. However, there will be no further sex with that person. Once I know it's a form of prostitution, I couldn't do it.

I still don't have it straight in my head, but it seems basically wrong to have sex with someone who doesn't really want to, and probably wouldn't if I wasn't going to pay them. Yet I don't feel that sense of it being wrong in the situation where I know I want to have sex, and it would be them paying me. It remains to be seen if I would still feel that way after sex, when I see the money. Quite possibly I would refuse it just to make the other guy feel good.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Because a lot of humans in general tend to be pretty sexually frustrated.

Perhaps the idea perpetrated by Freud and many after him, that there is a "healthy" level of libido, is fundamentally wrong. Some people have to live up to social (or partner) expectations that they have sex more often than they want. While others are frustrated by wanting more sex than is available.

Everyone finding the partner who is right for them (besides making the dubious assumption that people want their sexual partners to hang around, or want only one) would solve the problem for all the middling people, and would suit the asexual-leaning people too. But it would be horrendous for those with a high sexual appetite. Because (nobody will like this) they will mostly be straight men, and unable to find a partner at all.

[Genivaria]

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Uh huh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution

[Genivaria]

I've never been comfortable with the idea. But I've never got it straight in my head, I think it's one of those things I was taught was wrong, but when I was too young to understand.

I've considered taking money for sex, on the basis "bad sex is better than no sex" but, to be frank, the opportunity hardly ever arises, and when it does, getting in some guy's car or going around to his house, feels like way too much risk.

I really resist paying money for sex. I've never knowingly done it, though I have been hit up for money by people I never knew were in it for money. They did it so casually, it's clearly a form of "low dollar, de facto" prostitution like a de-romanticized form of "buy me dinner and be nice for a couple of hours, and I might let you have sex with me" de facto prostitution. It wasn't that horrible, really: once the (supposedly consensual) sex is in the past, and just a good memory, an exchange of money does not much sully it. However, there will be no further sex with that person. Once I know it's a form of prostitution, I couldn't do it.

I still don't have it straight in my head, but it seems basically wrong to have sex with someone who doesn't really want to, and probably wouldn't if I wasn't going to pay them. Yet I don't feel that sense of it being wrong in the situation where I know I want to have sex, and it would be them paying me. It remains to be seen if I would still feel that way after sex, when I see the money. Quite possibly I would refuse it just to make the other guy feel good.

According to capitalist theory having sex with someone who is extremely uncomfortable is still acceptable as long as she agrees to the payment, no different than a worker who hates this job comes in every day to do it because they agree to the contract.
But yeah I get why this is morally icky territory.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Legalize it and decriminalize it. It’s a job, make sure the workers are protected and healthy. I’ve little else to add.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I've never been comfortable with the idea. But I've never got it straight in my head, I think it's one of those things I was taught was wrong, but when I was too young to understand.

I've considered taking money for sex, on the basis "bad sex is better than no sex" but, to be frank, the opportunity hardly ever arises, and when it does, getting in some guy's car or going around to his house, feels like way too much risk.

I really resist paying money for sex. I've never knowingly done it, though I have been hit up for money by people I never knew were in it for money. They did it so casually, it's clearly a form of "low dollar, de facto" prostitution like a de-romanticized form of "buy me dinner and be nice for a couple of hours, and I might let you have sex with me" de facto prostitution. It wasn't that horrible, really: once the (supposedly consensual) sex is in the past, and just a good memory, an exchange of money does not much sully it. However, there will be no further sex with that person. Once I know it's a form of prostitution, I couldn't do it.

I still don't have it straight in my head, but it seems basically wrong to have sex with someone who doesn't really want to, and probably wouldn't if I wasn't going to pay them. Yet I don't feel that sense of it being wrong in the situation where I know I want to have sex, and it would be them paying me. It remains to be seen if I would still feel that way after sex, when I see the money. Quite possibly I would refuse it just to make the other guy feel good.

I almost paid a hooker when I lived in Ypsilanti but she was too greedy

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Perhaps there is a reason that just about every human society since the paleolithic era has viewed prostitution as a job of ill-repute or sought to restrict it. It can't be a coincidence that they all arrived at the same conclusion.

Uh huh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution

The roll of religion is usually against it. So Yawkland's observation just begs the question "why are religions so opposed to prostitution"

In my opinion, that's generally down to meme evolution: religions that don't influence stable partnership focussed on producing children, don't get as many children to induct into the religion. And when they've manufactured a partnership but it's not working "naturally" because the woman doesn't like sex with the man she (or her parents or church) picked, and isn't free to pick another, a prostitute for her husband works directly against the propagation of that religion.

It wouldn't be going too far to say that religions are generally in favor of rape. But only within the constraints of a marriage and providing it produces more religious followers by birthing children into religious marriages.

My hypothesis isn't perfect though. Why are prostitutes despised more than the married men who commit adultery with them? And what about 'gigolos'? The perpetuation of a religion is not particularly well served by preventing religious women from getting pregnant with some other man but her husband. Anyway.

[Picairn]

Money is okay, sex is okay, but sex for money is not okay? I can't comprehend this logic.

On a more serious note, we should absolutely legalize prostitution. It'll be easier to regulate and stop illegal trafficking when prostitution is open.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Money is okay, sex is okay, but sex for money is not okay? I can't comprehend this logic.

On a more serious note, we should absolutely legalize prostitution. It'll be easier to regulate and stop illegal trafficking when prostitution is open.

Money is OK, people are OK, but money for people is slavery. So much for logic.

Yes. And considering that their line of business has health implications, I also think they should be licensed.

[Picairn]

Money is OK, people are OK, but money for people is slavery. So much for logic.

I think you mean "people for money". Which raises the question: Can a person legally sell himself into slavery when he consents to it? I don't think so, but I suppose my line of (joking) logic can't be applied in all cases.

Yes. And considering that their line of business has health implications, I also think they should be licensed.

Agreed.

[Dakran]

Completely legalizing it, and having it regulated is the ideal solution. It protects providers of sex work, takes away a bogus "crime" for police to crack down on, and frankly the government really has no valid reason to tell someone they cant offer sexual services to another consenting adult for money. If you don't like sex-work, then don't participate in it, y'know?

[Godular]

My stance on prostitution is the same as my stance on drugs:

Legalize. Regulate. Tax the shit out of.

[Socrathens]

It may be called the oldest profession in the world, but actually: it's not. Not by a mile.

Hunter-gatherer societies have - usually - a very relaxed attitude about sex. Children are the responsability of the whole tribe. Adults may well leave the tribe and join another tribe, and sex can be had quite uninhibitedly without worrying about childcare. Fertility is prized over virginity. Monogamy is not the rule, as a ... rule.

Monogamy becomes the rule when societies settle down, like in the event of agriculture or herding. Those societies all of a sudden have a division of labour, less mobility, and therefore a greater need to monitor who gets to have sex with whom, and when. Status and income starts to diverge. Virginity becomes prized over fertility. Women are reduced to baby-bearing chattel.

The oldest profession in the world is PRIEST - someone who is paid to make sense of the wide variety of uncertainty around us. Hunter-gatherer societies had this profession.

Then came shepherds and other herd-drivers.

Then farmers.

Then the image of the gods changes from relaxed crowd that the priest deals with, to Big Brothers and Harpies. Matrimony is redefined - and then...

Only then does prostitution become a profession. Because for the first time in history there was enough income disparity, little enough communal caring for children, and prizing of virginity, that men would look for some release that could not be had freely, and women (and some men) were destitute enough that they could be pressured into such arrangements.

Of course, this is also the time when slavery is first practiced. None so destitute as slaves.
So maybe even then prostitution was not yet - or not usually - a profession, but rather a position.