by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:34 am
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:48 am
Loben III wrote:This should be entertaining,
by Loben III » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:00 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Loben III wrote:This should be entertaining,
What do you think they'll go with? I personally expect they'll be non-compliant and just shout endlessly, repeat their nonsense talking points, lash out at Trump and "fascism" and so on. Non-compliance is really their only way to save face here and they can go around pretending the administration cracked down (And probably arrested some faculty for ignoring subpoenas) on them for doing nothing wrong.
If they comply with the investigation, they're completely fucked. Either they have to say they were making it all up and princeton isn't racist, or they have to shell out millions and millions in compensation and lose their federal funding.
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:04 am
Loben III wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
What do you think they'll go with? I personally expect they'll be non-compliant and just shout endlessly, repeat their nonsense talking points, lash out at Trump and "fascism" and so on. Non-compliance is really their only way to save face here and they can go around pretending the administration cracked down (And probably arrested some faculty for ignoring subpoenas) on them for doing nothing wrong.
If they comply with the investigation, they're completely fucked. Either they have to say they were making it all up and princeton isn't racist, or they have to shell out millions and millions in compensation and lose their federal funding.
If they are smart about their public image they will comply
by Glorious Hong Kong » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:44 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:44 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Loben III wrote:
If they are smart about their public image they will comply
I disagree. Compliance means the end of them one way or the other. By ignoring reality and just retreating into spouting their ideological talking points while not complying with the investigation they will be able to still be seen as "The good guys" by their fellow ideologues.
Their public image is already tarnished by everyone who opposes their ideology and fellow ideologues are the only supporters they have left. But if they comply it will be the end of them, either because they will need to deny the university is racist, or fork out millions of dollars in compensation and bankrupt their institution.
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:45 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
I disagree. Compliance means the end of them one way or the other. By ignoring reality and just retreating into spouting their ideological talking points while not complying with the investigation they will be able to still be seen as "The good guys" by their fellow ideologues.
Their public image is already tarnished by everyone who opposes their ideology and fellow ideologues are the only supporters they have left. But if they comply it will be the end of them, either because they will need to deny the university is racist, or fork out millions of dollars in compensation and bankrupt their institution.
I see you endorse "deplatforming" now. They defend their pedestal or they get toppled.
I'm still on the fence about this. Better place to be than on a platform or pedestal.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:46 am
Loben III wrote:This should be entertaining,
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:56 am
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/princeton-university-admitted-past-racism-now-it-is-under-investigation-889267.html
Princeton University suffers from systemic racism...against whites, Asians, and Jews (who are by and large considered white). Racist universities that teach progressive bigotry should be defunded. It is time for whites and Asians to demand equality and racial redress for all students, not just blacks and Hispanics. Asian Lives Matter. All Lives Matter. The same goes for male students whose due process rights are under sustained assault from the woke establishment. Men's Lives Matter.
KAG. Four More Years.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:20 am
by Vassenor » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:29 am
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/princeton-university-admitted-past-racism-now-it-is-under-investigation-889267.html
Princeton University suffers from systemic racism...against whites, Asians, and Jews (who are by and large considered white). Racist universities that teach progressive bigotry should be defunded. It is time for whites and Asians to demand equality and racial redress for all students, not just blacks and Hispanics. Asian Lives Matter. All Lives Matter. The same goes for male students whose due process rights are under sustained assault from the woke establishment. Men's Lives Matter.
KAG. Four More Years.
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:32 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
I'm in favor of deplatforming identity politics progressives and have been for a while.
You can't be in favor of deplatforming without being in favor of all its forms.
It is a tactic in the wide battlefield of individual speech, in which speech is all free but some speech drowns out other speech.
The "platform" amplifies an individual's speech. And I will not renounce that old model of media, just yet.
"Pay to be amplified" is ancient. Pay to mute speech is modern, it's only possible because of the vast amount of speech used to "mute".
I'm in favor of bad eugenicists and anti-vaxxers being muted, but not by law. I'm still on the fence about private enterprise who have funded one voice to prominence, or universities who have given the platform of academic rank to one voice, muting them for economic or reputational reasons.
This is not an easy issue. So much attention has been paid to government extending its powers in recent decades. But I'm rather forgiving of government, I think they're just trying to keep their share of power. Non-government powers have increased, as private enterprise and the people have obtained more information, acted on it, and gained more power. Power is control: individual power is control over one's individual environment (which is a choice in itself: they can move, get new friends, change jobs). Private enterprise operates all across the range of inanimate things (the rocks of miner) to individual consumers, and on to government, and beyond. Private enterprise surpasses nations, paying tax where it suits them best, operating sweatshops where the labor is skilled but cheap, influencing and sometimes overthrowing governments. Well you can see what I consider the greatest threat to individual liberty: it's the faction who are winning and set to conquer all.
IT has given everyone new options to control their environment. It's rather pathetic that you and I, individuals, glory so much in having a small audience, and speak as though it matters at all what we say. We have a small platform. Neither you nor I are prominent. It's enough for us, but it's a tiny fraction of the power we have to speak.
So yeah. Use deplatforming to go at your enemies, fight right on the front line of three or four expansionist factions (the people, media, government, private enterprise) and pretend that "my enemy's enemy is my friend" because it suits your combative mood. But when it's all said and dead, neither you nor I will be on the winning side. It will be twenty years from now and the new rulers will be some late entrant with a well-thought-out (ie AI) solution satisfactory too all the battered survivors. We live in the information age, and speech weak in information ... is nothing but noise.
by Vassenor » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:34 am
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:36 am
Vassenor wrote:Also it takes a special kind of victim complex to look at an article about the university looking to redress the balance between the Eurocentric way it teaches history and how history actually is and start screaming about how that's racist against white people.
by Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:36 am
by Valrifell » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:42 am
Loben III wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
What do you think they'll go with? I personally expect they'll be non-compliant and just shout endlessly, repeat their nonsense talking points, lash out at Trump and "fascism" and so on. Non-compliance is really their only way to save face here and they can go around pretending the administration cracked down (And probably arrested some faculty for ignoring subpoenas) on them for doing nothing wrong.
If they comply with the investigation, they're completely fucked. Either they have to say they were making it all up and princeton isn't racist, or they have to shell out millions and millions in compensation and lose their federal funding.
If they are smart about their public image they will comply
by Vassenor » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:44 am
Valrifell wrote:Loben III wrote:
If they are smart about their public image they will comply
The public image of Princeton as a premiere Ivy League school with cutting edge STEM and medical research literally can not be tarnished due to it being several hundreds of years old. It will survive this scandal on sheer inertia alone. It is for similar reasons that UC Berkley gets loads of interest and activity, something about having a lot of Nobel laureates is really appealing I guess.
It also won't go bankrupt, either, because the administration would be really stupid to drive one of their better universities to closure.
by Valrifell » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:49 am
Vassenor wrote:Valrifell wrote:
The public image of Princeton as a premiere Ivy League school with cutting edge STEM and medical research literally can not be tarnished due to it being several hundreds of years old. It will survive this scandal on sheer inertia alone. It is for similar reasons that UC Berkley gets loads of interest and activity, something about having a lot of Nobel laureates is really appealing I guess.
It also won't go bankrupt, either, because the administration would be really stupid to drive one of their better universities to closure.
But they're being insufficiently patriotic by admitting that the history of groups other than white people is worth studying.
by The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Glorious Hong Kong wrote:https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/princeton-university-admitted-past-racism-now-it-is-under-investigation-889267.html
Princeton University suffers from systemic racism...against whites, Asians, and Jews (who are by and large considered white). Racist universities that teach progressive bigotry should be defunded. It is time for whites and Asians to demand equality and racial redress for all students, not just blacks and Hispanics. Asian Lives Matter. All Lives Matter. The same goes for male students whose due process rights are under sustained assault from the woke establishment. Men's Lives Matter.
KAG. Four More Years.
You were doing so well until you starting say "All Lives Matter" and then "KAG. Four More Years."
Never seen anyone lose my respect that fast.
by Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:59 am
by The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:02 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:What an absolute brainlet move from Princeton, good lord. They played themselves.
by Picairn » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:04 am
by Valrifell » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:16 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:11 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
You can't be in favor of deplatforming without being in favor of all its forms.
It is a tactic in the wide battlefield of individual speech, in which speech is all free but some speech drowns out other speech.
The "platform" amplifies an individual's speech. And I will not renounce that old model of media, just yet.
"Pay to be amplified" is ancient. Pay to mute speech is modern, it's only possible because of the vast amount of speech used to "mute".
I'm in favor of bad eugenicists and anti-vaxxers being muted, but not by law. I'm still on the fence about private enterprise who have funded one voice to prominence, or universities who have given the platform of academic rank to one voice, muting them for economic or reputational reasons.
This is not an easy issue. So much attention has been paid to government extending its powers in recent decades. But I'm rather forgiving of government, I think they're just trying to keep their share of power. Non-government powers have increased, as private enterprise and the people have obtained more information, acted on it, and gained more power. Power is control: individual power is control over one's individual environment (which is a choice in itself: they can move, get new friends, change jobs). Private enterprise operates all across the range of inanimate things (the rocks of miner) to individual consumers, and on to government, and beyond. Private enterprise surpasses nations, paying tax where it suits them best, operating sweatshops where the labor is skilled but cheap, influencing and sometimes overthrowing governments. Well you can see what I consider the greatest threat to individual liberty: it's the faction who are winning and set to conquer all.
IT has given everyone new options to control their environment. It's rather pathetic that you and I, individuals, glory so much in having a small audience, and speak as though it matters at all what we say. We have a small platform. Neither you nor I are prominent. It's enough for us, but it's a tiny fraction of the power we have to speak.
So yeah. Use deplatforming to go at your enemies, fight right on the front line of three or four expansionist factions (the people, media, government, private enterprise) and pretend that "my enemy's enemy is my friend" because it suits your combative mood. But when it's all said and dead, neither you nor I will be on the winning side. It will be twenty years from now and the new rulers will be some late entrant with a well-thought-out (ie AI) solution satisfactory too all the battered survivors. We live in the information age, and speech weak in information ... is nothing but noise.
You seem to think that it's an all or nothing thing rather than a matter of pragmatism.
Progressives are vastly overrepresented and have inundated society with their hatred and toxicity.
We need a crackdown to redress this. I have no particular objection to them having platforms when they are monopolizing them less and when they are more suitably presented as what they are; a fringe group of hatemongers.
It is a corrective action I am proposing, not a perpetual policy. Think of it like anti-trust action. You can support anti-trust action without thinking all businesses must be totally atomized and destroyed because "If you support the principle you must support it in all instances regardless of context.".
Currently the progressive left is overrepresented by a massive amount and gatekeeping institutions, in addition their influence on society is harmful. It's time to break them up and reduce them to a statue more befitting them, namely 10% of the airtime and consideration and so on, 10% of the curriculum etc. Meanwhile the critics of progressive policy must have their views properly represented and acknowledged by these institutions as well.
Further, the laws and standards used to deplatform non-progressives being leveled at progressives for a change *would be* what you're advocating for by demanding it be consistent and applied everywhere.
For example, Frankie Boyle recently had a guest joke about killing white people on his programme. He wasn't punished, even by the BBC. Meanwhile, Dankulu goes to court for making a similar joke.
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