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Shall China exist?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Shall China exist?

China is a legit country with roughly its current borders and that PRC is the legit China.
64
23%
China is a legit country with roughly its current borders and that ROC is the legit China.
48
17%
China is a legit country. However Tibet, East Turkestan etc should be independent and China proper needs to be run by some form of ROC.
137
49%
China is not a legit country. Even China proper needs to be divided into numerous successor states.
31
11%
 
Total votes : 280

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:57 am

Smenovekhovtia wrote:
Picairn wrote:Did you study Chinese history at all, most notably its colonization efforts in neighboring countries?

Again, im not defending the chinese government

Im an anarchist for christ sake, no state should exist in my opinion

Its ridiculously stupid to ignore the atrocities of the west and target the atrocities of the east


To me the latter is a lot more relevant so why shall I not focus on it?
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Port Spratly
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Feb 25, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Port Spratly » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:58 am

Picairn wrote:
Smenovekhovtia wrote:Just trying to remind everyone that the west is just as brutal if not more brutal

Stop. That is deflection. Create a new thread where you can spread your hatred about the West if you like, but we are talking about China here.


Why ? why it is allowed to discuss some flaws in another side of the world and taboo to speak about the flaws of the west including the "double standards" applied.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:59 am

Feline Goetland wrote:
Willtime wrote:
Victory gives justice to victory itself,good point.


It does work. Without Israel liberals and some nice religious people will keep crying over one pogrom after another without actually solving the problem of Jewish safety. With Israel and IDF they have already been mostly solved.


Now Palestinians keep crying.

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:00 am

Willtime wrote:
Feline Goetland wrote:
It does work. Without Israel liberals and some nice religious people will keep crying over one pogrom after another without actually solving the problem of Jewish safety. With Israel and IDF they have already been mostly solved.


Now Palestinians keep crying.


You already know my solution: there needs to be an independent Palestine. Though in practice it will probably be better if most Palestinians immigrate to the New World or Oceania since due to acute water shortage and climate change there will probably be even more problems in the region.
Last edited by Feline Goetland on Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:01 am

Willtime wrote:Vietnam is still there.
And there is only one America.
Which one is more thorough?

Tibet and East Turkestan were all annexed into mainland China.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Smenovekhovtia
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Smenovekhovtia » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:03 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Vietnam is still there.
And there is only one America.
Which one is more thorough?

Tibet and East Turkestan were all annexed into mainland China.


No one is arguing which is worst or denying Chinese totalitarianism

The argument here is that if you want to abolish one on the basis of atrocities, you must be willing to abolish the other on the same basis

Either you want death to both states or your just a legitimate american bootlicker
The Peoples Republic of Smenovekhovtia
National Bolshevik Republic

None of the views expressed in character or within my future fact books are representative of my views. All in character forum posts will be marked with IC in red.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:04 am

Feline Goetland wrote:
Willtime wrote:
Now Palestinians keep crying.


You already know my solution: there needs to be a Palestine.


Then Palestine and Israel will try to destroy each other.
Of course,who will rule the Jerusalem?

User avatar
Port Spratly
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Feb 25, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Port Spratly » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:05 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:I support China's right to exist as a nation-state, but I also support its Balkanization and the independence of many smaller countries such as Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan. I pray for the CCP's demise every single day. I support the creation of a smaller, freer, more democratic China of which Hong Kong is not a constituent part. Only then can I say I'm proud to be Chinese without lying.


Along with your logic, Why US did not give back Hawaii its sovereignty, also the same logic why Japan keeps the Ryukyu Kingdom with them. Before Japanese occupation, Ryukyu Island is a kingdom of themselves pretty much like Kingdom of Korea. Even though the allies command Japan to withdraw all the territory that does not belong to them pre - WW2, why US did not say anything about Ryukyus, If US forces japan to withdrawn Ryukyu then the same standard is applied to US to release Hawaii.

Me myself did not live in china or support CCP but it is funny to see how hypocrite you guys are :)

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:05 am

Willtime wrote:
Feline Goetland wrote:
You already know my solution: there needs to be a Palestine.


Then Palestine and Israel will try to destroy each other.
Of course,who will rule the Jerusalem?


That’s why there is a need for UN peacekeepers to separate them.

UN already had a solution for Jerusalem in 1947.
Last edited by Feline Goetland on Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:05 am

Port Spratly wrote:Why ? why it is allowed to discuss some flaws in another side of the world and taboo to speak about the flaws of the west including the "double standards" applied.

Because screaming about tHe wEsT in a China thread is straying from the main topic. It's like talking about smartphones in a thread about PCs. Create a new thread about the West so you can spread your hatred about it all you want, while we will continue to discuss China in this thread.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:07 am

Port Spratly wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:I support China's right to exist as a nation-state, but I also support its Balkanization and the independence of many smaller countries such as Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan. I pray for the CCP's demise every single day. I support the creation of a smaller, freer, more democratic China of which Hong Kong is not a constituent part. Only then can I say I'm proud to be Chinese without lying.


Along with your logic, Why US did not give back Hawaii its sovereignty, also the same logic why Japan keeps the Ryukyu Kingdom with them. Before Japanese occupation, Ryukyu Island is a kingdom of themselves pretty much like Kingdom of Korea. Even though the allies command Japan to withdraw all the territory that does not belong to them pre - WW2, why US did not say anything about Ryukyus, If US forces japan to withdrawn Ryukyu then the same standard is applied to US to release Hawaii.

Me myself did not live in china or support CCP but it is funny to see how hypocrite you guys are :)


What really matters to Glorious HK and me is that the CCP and the centralized state of China have actually caused real problems in our lives. We want our problems resolved.
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:08 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Vietnam is still there.
And there is only one America.
Which one is more thorough?

Tibet and East Turkestan were all annexed into mainland China.


Right.
And of course I know,US didnot annex Canada.
Yeah,Canada defeated US and burned Whitehouse at that time, of course.
But,will you try to avenge the Indians?Not for Canada,for Indians.

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:09 am

Picairn wrote:
Port Spratly wrote:Why ? why it is allowed to discuss some flaws in another side of the world and taboo to speak about the flaws of the west including the "double standards" applied.

Because screaming about tHe wEsT in a China thread is straying from the main topic. It's like talking about smartphones in a thread about PCs. Create a new thread about the West so you can spread your hatred about it all you want, while we will continue to discuss China in this thread.


Exactly. That’s basically the Soviet approach here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you ... ng_Negroes

We need to address human rights issues everywhere. This thread is about addressing them within China and whether it is necessary to split China to enforce human rights.
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:10 am

Willtime wrote:Right.
And of course I know,US didnot annex Canada.
Yeah,Canada defeated US and burned Whitehouse at that time, of course.
But,will you try to avenge the Indians?Not for Canada,for Indians.

If I do, will you take up your arms and avenge the Uyghurs and Hong Kong-ers?
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:10 am

Feline Goetland wrote:
Willtime wrote:
Then Palestine and Israel will try to destroy each other.
Of course,who will rule the Jerusalem?


That’s why there is a need for UN peacekeepers to separate them.

UN already had a solution for Jerusalem in 1947.


They said Jerusalem would be ruled by UN.
Do you believe that Israel will give in?

User avatar
Port Spratly
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Feb 25, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Port Spratly » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:10 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Vietnam is still there.
And there is only one America.
Which one is more thorough?

Tibet and East Turkestan were all annexed into mainland China.


OOT, are you related to Pitcairn Family or its business group :)

User avatar
Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12359
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:14 am

Willtime wrote:
Feline Goetland wrote:
That’s why there is a need for UN peacekeepers to separate them.

UN already had a solution for Jerusalem in 1947.


They said Jerusalem would be ruled by UN.
Do you believe that Israel will give in?


No, the best we can hope for is that Israel doesn't annex more land and stops building settlements, and even that is wishful thinking. The war will continue for the foreseeable future.
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Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:15 am

Port Spratly wrote:OOT, are you related to Pitcairn Family or its business group :)

Actually no, when I founded this nation, I tried to come up with some names that wouldn't sound too embarassing. Unfortunately I couldn't, then I remember playing Hex Empire and this capital, Picairn, came up in my head. So I typed in Picairn, while the actual name is Pitcairn. Huh, so I missed a T. Too bad I can't change it back, so I settled with the name.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:16 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Right.
And of course I know,US didnot annex Canada.
Yeah,Canada defeated US and burned Whitehouse at that time, of course.
But,will you try to avenge the Indians?Not for Canada,for Indians.

If I do, will you take up your arms and avenge the Uyghurs and Hong Kong-ers?


I will not.Many reasons including I dont think they are being killed.But even they are,I will not risk my life,I will only criticize.
And I will not avenge the Indians.I do think they were killed,and I will not risk my life,I will only criticize.

Now it is your problem.
Will you use the same way to treat them?

User avatar
Feline Goetland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 09, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Feline Goetland » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:17 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Right.
And of course I know,US didnot annex Canada.
Yeah,Canada defeated US and burned Whitehouse at that time, of course.
But,will you try to avenge the Indians?Not for Canada,for Indians.

If I do, will you take up your arms and avenge the Uyghurs and Hong Kong-ers?


I think they are Sinostatist.

Sinostatism is a pretty serious cancer to the point that even China-born people who hates China usually remain Sinostatist in a mutated manner in the same sense that communism and humanism are still related to Christianity.

When someone who is brainwashed by Sinostatism begins to hate China they often propose that all Chinese get genocided simply because there is no solution with nuances and individual rights to complex problems in the Sinostatist mind which tends to treat social problems as problems in animal husbandry or engineering.
Last edited by Feline Goetland on Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
Goetland is not China.

China as a state is inherently evil which needs to be rectified by oppressed nations controlled by it regaining our righteous independence just like the independence of Finland, Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine from iterations of the Russian empire.

No more anti-Anglo, antisemitic and anti-Japanese nonsense, no more communist party, no more theft of wealth from Wu-speaking lands by Beijing, no more Boxer Rebellion-style xenophobia and it’s modern successors. America, Israel and Japan are inherently awesome.

User avatar
Kandorith
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1337
Founded: Aug 26, 2009
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kandorith » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:19 am

Port Spratly wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:I support China's right to exist as a nation-state, but I also support its Balkanization and the independence of many smaller countries such as Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan. I pray for the CCP's demise every single day. I support the creation of a smaller, freer, more democratic China of which Hong Kong is not a constituent part. Only then can I say I'm proud to be Chinese without lying.


Along with your logic, Why US did not give back Hawaii its sovereignty, also the same logic why Japan keeps the Ryukyu Kingdom with them. Before Japanese occupation, Ryukyu Island is a kingdom of themselves pretty much like Kingdom of Korea. Even though the allies command Japan to withdraw all the territory that does not belong to them pre - WW2, why US did not say anything about Ryukyus, If US forces japan to withdrawn Ryukyu then the same standard is applied to US to release Hawaii.

Me myself did not live in china or support CCP but it is funny to see how hypocrite you guys are :)

That is because the Ryukyus were annexed well before WW2... Because with this logic almost all countries should cede pretty much all of their territories, Germany for example should just cede half their territory to city states and smaller kingdoms then. Furthermore, the Ryukyus wouldn't really be in any position to be independent, there's no economic nor state base for it. (They wanted to become independent again ages ago and it turned out it would be a disaster for the Ryukyan people).

Anyway on topic: even though I have a massive dislike of China, a unified China is better than it falling apart. Every time China was not unified there have been massive wars and civil wars. However brutal the regime is right now, an alternative would most likely be even worse. Hong Kong and Taiwan should remain independent though.
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Shinonome Kyoai Headlines:
BREAKING NEWS: Earthquake has hit the Shikada area, triggering a tsunami that has caused extensive damage ● The Kandorese Geological Survey said the quake had a magnitude of 8.2 with the epicentre about 215 kilometres from the coast ● The death toll is unclear, but police estimate the first figures to be near 10,000 casualties. ● A tsunami warning has been issued in the greater Cordilia area. ● The Imperial Kandorese Armed Forces are currently mobilized to provide emergency aid to the hit areas in the Niigata Prefecture and surrounding areas.

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Picairn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:27 am

Kandorith wrote:Anyway on topic: even though I have a massive dislike of China, a unified China is better than it falling apart. Every time China was not unified there have been massive wars and civil wars. However brutal the regime is right now, an alternative would most likely be even worse. Hong Kong and Taiwan should remain independent though.

I support the Japan solution, where China would be ruled by a democratic government with a demilitarised army, akin to Japan or Germany. Its territorial integrity would remain largely intact, with the exception of Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan. All three would gain independence.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Pauline M. Warburton (Staff)
Long live the Emperor!
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Ayn Rand is a war criminal

Vivian James wrote:It is sophistry to try to redefine your opponent's arguments. It might feel good...

But so can jerking off in a subway.

The Emerald Legion wrote:Nobody generates wealth. Wealth exists. You simply shift it around, or sometimes discover more.

Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.

User avatar
Willtime
Attaché
 
Posts: 75
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:27 am

Page wrote:
Willtime wrote:
They said Jerusalem would be ruled by UN.
Do you believe that Israel will give in?


No, the best we can hope for is that Israel doesn't annex more land and stops building settlements, and even that is wishful thinking. The war will continue for the foreseeable future.


It is nearly imposible to stop a man who thinks he is powerful than you.
A shame fact for human.
I dont know how to slove it,a shame for myself.

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43418
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:30 am

Careful, you can get a nasty cut from broken China.
Tʜᴇ Mᴏsᴛʟʏ Pᴇᴀᴄᴇғᴜʟ Rɪᴏᴛɪɴɢ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ To culture war! The cause of and solution to all of life's problems ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane ~ Marcus Aurelius
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Smenovekhovtia
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Smenovekhovtia » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:30 am

Picairn wrote:
Willtime wrote:Right.
And of course I know,US didnot annex Canada.
Yeah,Canada defeated US and burned Whitehouse at that time, of course.
But,will you try to avenge the Indians?Not for Canada,for Indians.

If I do, will you take up your arms and avenge the Uyghurs and Hong Kong-ers?

Yes
The Peoples Republic of Smenovekhovtia
National Bolshevik Republic

None of the views expressed in character or within my future fact books are representative of my views. All in character forum posts will be marked with IC in red.

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