In defense of Liberal Marxism

[Nevertopia]

yikes

mega yikes

[Stylan]

Not only do I believe nothing you said was right, you also say that the way you think is the only right way to think. I can name a lot of bad people who thought that way, and no, a worker in a capitalist society is not a slave, the US just has an interesting way of going with capitalism. My honest opinion? Your idea is cringe, and the only people who would approve of it are edgy teenagers who know nothing about Stalin but praise him anyways.

I mean Bernie is like 100 and he likes Castro so

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Not only do I believe nothing you said was right, you also say that the way you think is the only right way to think. I can name a lot of bad people who thought that way, and no, a worker in a capitalist society is not a slave, the US just has an interesting way of going with capitalism. My honest opinion? Your idea is cringe, and the only people who would approve of it are edgy teenagers who know nothing about Stalin but praise him anyways.

I'm not a teenager but okay

I didn’t say that, I just said most teenagers would agree with you, I just don’t really see how your proposal is any better than capitalism.

[Kustonia]

...For evidence of this see all of history.

This is not an adequate defense. Your entire OP incorporates economics, and all of history is not materially based. History incorporates many components, and it's your job to provide specific examples.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Not only do I believe nothing you said was right, you also say that the way you think is the only right way to think. I can name a lot of bad people who thought that way, and no, a worker in a capitalist society is not a slave, the US just has an interesting way of going with capitalism. My honest opinion? Your idea is cringe, and the only people who would approve of it are edgy teenagers who know nothing about Stalin but praise him anyways.

I mean Bernie is like 100 and he likes Castro so

As much as I like Bernie he doesn’t know anything about socialism nor communism, he just says dumb stuff that makes it harder for him to get elected.

[Bombadil]

...For evidence of this see all of history.

This is not an adequate defense. Your argument incorporates economics, and all of history is not materially based. History incorporates many components, and it's your job to provide specific examples.

Well quite, in the 18th century in an argument for democracy someone could have used that same line. Tis a silly point.

[Cisairse]

I'm not a teenager but okay

I didn’t say that, I just said most teenagers would agree with you, I just don’t really see how your proposal is any better than capitalism.

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

[Stylan]

I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.

That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.

Sure, a good degree of government as community driven regulation and social services such as education and healthcare remain important. Essentially vested interests use 'freedom' and 'socialism' as wedge points to drive two things, lower regulation and lower taxes so they can make more profit - it doesn't need to be that way and it's creating a highly divisive population.

What

I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.

That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.

Yes. This has worked.

Yeah it actually has lol

I'm a tankie mate. I am not opposed to socialism.

That isn't socialism; we need a vanguard party, a brief transition state before going into post-scarcity full communism.

What happens when the "vanguard party" refuses to cede its grip on power to make room for actual socialism or communism, and the "brief transition state" becomes a totalitarian regime just as bad as the capitalist regimes it claims to oppose?

something something Stalin tried to step down and the party refused to let him four times something something

In case of this actually happening, it would be very good, as the proles could revolt against their vanguard party and establish communism. Anyway that doesn't happen. if Lenin lived 1000+ years with Stalin and co. the USSR would be a full communist state by 2070.

Mao almost reached full communism btw, would you like links on that?

[Nevertopia]

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

[Cisairse]

...For evidence of this see all of history.

This is not an adequate defense. Your entire OP incorporates economics, and all of history is not materially based. History incorporates many components, and it's your job to provide specific examples.

History is literally materially based. Material conditions are the primary driver of history. If you would like a formal proof of this, see Vol. 1–3 of Capital.

[Stylan]

I mean Bernie is like 100 and he likes Castro so

As much as I like Bernie he doesn’t know anything about socialism nor communism, he just says dumb stuff that makes it harder for him to get elected.

Not really, the corporations who run this country don't like him.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

I didn’t say that, I just said most teenagers would agree with you, I just don’t really see how your proposal is any better than capitalism.

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

[Cisairse]

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

Liberal marxism has never been tried

[Stylan]

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

Oh boy do I have to link my copypasta again

[Cisairse]

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Capitalism enforces slavery by perpetuating a system of surplus-value theft and hierarchical control of economies

[Kustonia]

This is not an adequate defense. Your entire OP incorporates economics, and all of history is not materially based. History incorporates many components, and it's your job to provide specific examples.

History is literally materially based. Material conditions are the primary driver of history. If you would like a formal proof of this, see Vol. 1–3 of Capital.

I could easily give you a counterpiece for Das Kapital. You've made assertions and said to see "all of history." That doesn't tell me anything more about the points you've made.

[Stylan]

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Not freedom lol

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

As much as I like Bernie he doesn’t know anything about socialism nor communism, he just says dumb stuff that makes it harder for him to get elected.

Not really, the corporations who run this country don't like him.

Well, I’m not American, and I hope he’ll one day become president, but he has to stop labelling himself as a socialist. I mean, he isn’t gonna socialise production, so he isn’t a socialist, and he probably knows nothing about Fidel other than he was communist.

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

Although I’m not a communist that isn’t 100% true, communism in China is working out really well for them, not freedom wise, but you get the point.

[Cisairse]

History is literally materially based. Material conditions are the primary driver of history. If you would like a formal proof of this, see Vol. 1–3 of Capital.

I could easily give you a counterpiece for Das Kapital. You've made assertions and said to see "all of history." That doesn't tell me anything more about the points you've made.

Feel free to provide a "counterpiece" for a 4000-page magnum opus

Actually don't bother because I can provide dozens of modern sources that concur with and academically prove the labor theory of value

[Kowani]

Unlike capitalism my proposal ensures freedom for mankind

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

"freedom"

There is no freedom under capitalism, merely a higher place on the plantation.

[Bombadil]

communism has failed everytime its been tried.

..said the Greeks and Romans about democracy..

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Capitalism enforces slavery by perpetuating a system of surplus-value theft and hierarchical control of economies

Maybe where you come from, but I’m for a Scandinavian country, so I can’t agree.

Capitalism also does that, it ensures even more freedom since you can make your own private businesses.

Not freedom lol

Freedom to start your own business.

[Cisairse]

Not really, the corporations who run this country don't like him.

Well, I’m not American, and I hope he’ll one day become president, but he has to stop labelling himself as a socialist. I mean, he isn’t gonna socialise production, so he isn’t a socialist, and he probably knows nothing about Fidel other than he was communist.

Bernie will almost certainly die during the K*mala "administration"

[Cisairse]

Capitalism enforces slavery by perpetuating a system of surplus-value theft and hierarchical control of economies

Maybe where you come from, but I’m for a Scandinavian country, so I can’t agree.

Happy slaves are still slaves

[Stylan]

Well, I’m not American, and I hope he’ll one day become president, but he has to stop labelling himself as a socialist. I mean, he isn’t gonna socialise production, so he isn’t a socialist, and he probably knows nothing about Fidel other than he was communist.

Bernie will almost certainly die during the K*mala "administration"

Biden/Kamala will finally pick the first Gitmo torturer of color.