8 year old arrested for battery for punching a teacher

[Nobel Hobos 2]

"Why is a grown ass woman expected to be more responsible than an 8 year old child with special needs?"

Gee, I dunno.

I get that she's meant to be more responsible, but is "wait for someone else to intervene and send a message to every child watching that they can do whatever they will and she can't do anything about it" really the most responsible approach?

If the kid refused to leave the classroom, maybe try denying a reward?

Lead all the other kids out of the classroom, for chalk drawing on the playground or throwing mud at the Principal's car ... or whatever they want really. Ten minutes should do it. Also the whole class will think you're awesome.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

And then they get to just sit around in the library without having to listen to any teachers at all.

You have zero awareness of what in-school suspension is.

They sit, in a room, with other suspendees, with a dean. They are given their work from their classes and need to complete it, for however many days they are suspended. They aren't allowed to chat with each other, or use their phones or mp3 players, except for the three minutes during passing when other kids change classes.

Your pronouncements on how it's all fun and games are indicative of a profound ignorance on what schools actually are like.

It's not "fun and games" but it's relatively more relaxing than the pace an ordinary class would entail.

If a school is short-staffed, they won't have a dean present, just the librarian.

[Galloism]

"Why is a grown ass woman expected to be more responsible than an 8 year old child with special needs?"

Gee, I dunno.

I get that she's meant to be more responsible, but is "wait for someone else to intervene and send a message to every child watching that they can do whatever they will and she can't do anything about it" really the most responsible approach?

So here's the thing - I've done the substitute teacher thing. It was a number of years ago, but I did it. And I used my voice in an authoritative fashion so it didn't ever come up - even with the kids in alternative school.

Further, "summoning the front office" is oftentimes more effective than physical removal, as it shows your authority as an extension of an authority they already broadly recognize - instead of having to create your own from the ground up. Being able to summon people already recognized as authorities at will is a strong demonstration of power and authority.

And finally, when she erred - by getting physical - and the special needs child reacted badly to her error, she had him arrested.

Because an 8 year old boy with special needs is more responsible than a grown ass woman.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I get that she's meant to be more responsible, but is "wait for someone else to intervene and send a message to every child watching that they can do whatever they will and she can't do anything about it" really the most responsible approach?

If the kid refused to leave the classroom, maybe try denying a reward?

Lead all the other kids out of the classroom, for chalk drawing on the playground or throwing mud at the Principal's car ... or whatever they want really. Ten minutes should do it. Also the whole class will think you're awesome.

That's an... interesting alternative, but it leaves me wondering then why we don't hear more about it in mainstream political discussions about education.

[Andsed]

I get that she's meant to be more responsible, but is "wait for someone else to intervene and send a message to every child watching that they can do whatever they will and she can't do anything about it" really the most responsible approach?

If the kid refused to leave the classroom, maybe try denying a reward?

Lead all the other kids out of the classroom, for chalk drawing on the playground or throwing mud at the Principal's car ... or whatever they want really. Ten minutes should do it. Also the whole class will think you're awesome.

And during those ten minutes call a councilor to calm the kid down and take them to principals office where they can then call their parents to discuss the incident and how to better address the kids needs in the future to prevent these kinds of incidents. There was never a need to get physical with the kid (who clearly did not want to be touched) and then call the police when he reacted badly.

[Katganistan]

Calling the cops on an 8-year-old is a fucking dick move, and is abuse. He was so tiny the handcuffs fell off, and he has an IEP because he has learning/emotional problems.

The teacher is an asshole, the administration are assholes. Suggesting that primary school kids should be arrested is ridiculous.

And it's not that "he hit a teacher". She was a sub, and decided to make him move by grabbing him and physically moving him AFTER he told her "DON'T TOUCH ME." SHE assaulted HIM.

I hope his parents sue.

He wasn't going to the principal's office willingly. What was she supposed to do, wave a magic wand?

EDIT: To be fair, a lawsuit would be a good way to force both sides to explain themselves.

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

[Andsed]

He wasn't going to the principal's office willingly. What was she supposed to do, wave a magic wand?

EDIT: To be fair, a lawsuit would be a good way to force both sides to explain themselves.

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

[The Free Joy State]

I get that she's meant to be more responsible, but is "wait for someone else to intervene and send a message to every child watching that they can do whatever they will and she can't do anything about it" really the most responsible approach?

If the kid refused to leave the classroom, maybe try denying a reward?

Lead all the other kids out of the classroom, for chalk drawing on the playground or throwing mud at the Principal's car ... or whatever they want really. Ten minutes should do it. Also the whole class will think you're awesome.

I seem to remember that was how it worked -- with some students -- in one of the schools I was working in.

A child who was disruptive missed part of playtime, rising in proportion to the amount of disruptiveness they were (if that wasn't contraindicated by their plan). I also remember one school that sent students to do part of their break time in a "chill-out zone" (they didn't call it that, of course) if they'd gotten particularly aggressive or disruptive (but I don't know much about that, because that was staffed by trained child wellbeing professionals).

[Katganistan]

Substitute teachers should wear some special costume so the kids know they're a sub.

Most times, at least in middle and high school, a sub is a teacher from the school made to give up a prep period to teach an extra class for someone who's out.

[Geneviev]

He wasn't going to the principal's office willingly. What was she supposed to do, wave a magic wand?

EDIT: To be fair, a lawsuit would be a good way to force both sides to explain themselves.

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Just making sure that teachers know about IEPs and care would probably be enough to prevent this sort of thing.

[Geneviev]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Yep. If I remember correctly, she wanted him to sit next to her because of it, he didn't move, and she decided to use force. The child was acting in self-defense.

[Andsed]

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Yep. If I remember correctly, she wanted him to sit next to her because of it, he didn't move, and she decided to use force. The child was acting in self-defense.

In what way was he sitting that made the teacher what him to move next to her?

[Balaslandia]

this is stupid.
It's probably florida
dumb things happen in Florida

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

Calling someone else to come to them is a common one, but depending on the school it may be perceived as undermining one's own authority in the eyes of the students.

Kids know the police mean business. They might not know it about substitute teachers.

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting

Even if you're innocent, you shouldn't run from the cops.

Likewise, even if what you did might not have been worth intervening over, you shouldn't punch someone over it either.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Do you have alternative jobs in mind for educated but otherwise under-employable people? I'm sure they could use them during this pandemic.

[The Free Joy State]

He wasn't going to the principal's office willingly. What was she supposed to do, wave a magic wand?

EDIT: To be fair, a lawsuit would be a good way to force both sides to explain themselves.

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

I agree. Any teacher who, essentially, picks fights with a student because they don't like how they're sitting should not be teaching.

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Just making sure that teachers know about IEPs and care would probably be enough to prevent this sort of thing.

That would probably be a good thing to implement anyway, but I'm not sure it would have prevented this case.

[Katganistan]

He's authoritarian. Just read his other screeds on cameras in classrooms and lunchrooms, arresting kids for telling other kids that Santa Claus exists, et cetera.

The last one is a strawman. I've never said anything like that.

Oh, really?

viewtopic.php?p=33481380#p33481380

I hope no one ever told you about Santa Claus. You might sue.

Honestly? That's pushing it as it is. It was used to convince kids someone's watching their behaviour, but it's hardly worth the damage in parental credibility. And really, it'd be better to use surveillance cameras in youth centers and at schools and parks in case some kids are faking belief in Santa anyway.

You do recall that Nationstates has a search function? Don't try to gaslight me.

[Geneviev]

Yep. If I remember correctly, she wanted him to sit next to her because of it, he didn't move, and she decided to use force. The child was acting in self-defense.

In what way was he sitting that made the teacher what him to move next to her?

The news story where I saw the case only said he was sitting "incorrectly." I don't know exactly what that means in this context.

[Andsed]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

Calling someone else to come to them is a common one, but depending on the school it may be perceived as undermining one's own authority in the eyes of the students.

Kids know the police mean business. They might not know it about substitute teachers.

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting

Even if you're innocent, you shouldn't run from the cops.

Likewise, even if what you did might not have been worth intervening over, you shouldn't punch someone over it either.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Do you have alternative jobs in mind for educated but otherwise under-employable people? I'm sure they could use them during this pandemic.

The teacher grabbed the kid when he explicitly told her not to. While punching her may not have been the nicest thing to do it is pretty dumb to pretend like a special needs kid lashing out when someone grabs them when they clearly do not want to be touched is some terrible crime.

[Dylar]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Wouldn't surprise me with some teachers. My older brother's second grade teacher constantly mocked and ridiculed him,in the middle of class, because his hand-writing didn't look pretty when compared to a female student's hand-writing.

[Balaslandia]

the family filed a lawsuit. good.

[Katganistan]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Read the two articles I attached upthread.
That I am a teacher and telling you that that sub and the entire administration fucked up and should be sued should tell you something. That other people who have subbed, and worked in schools before, are saying that the teacher and administration fucked up, should tell you something.

[The Free Joy State]

Wait, this was started because the teacher did not like how he was sitting?! Your kidding right?

Wouldn't surprise me with some teachers. My older brother's second grade teacher constantly mocked and ridiculed him,in the middle of class, because his hand-writing didn't look pretty when compared to a female student's hand-writing.

Wouldn't surprise me, either. While I had many wonderful and inspiring teachers, I once had a substitute teacher who once tore my work down the middle and made me start again because I hadn't been sitting in the way she told us to sit.

She was a somewhat divisive teacher.

[Thermodolia]

Substitute teachers should wear some special costume so the kids know they're a sub.

Like a clown suit?

[Katganistan]

You call the principal to come to him. Is this too difficult to understand? You get the guidance counselor. You get the school nurse. You get someone to talk to him. Did he look dangerous in the video? Did he talk back or try to hit the police?

And seriously, this idiot cause the whole situation becase she didn't like how he was sitting, and then committed battery by grabbing him and trying to drag him. He told her to let go and defended himself when she wouldn't.

The teacher is the entire catalyst for this, and should not be around kids, end of.

Just making sure that teachers know about IEPs and care would probably be enough to prevent this sort of thing.

I have to read my kids' IEPs and sign a statement that I have every year. I make myself a spreadsheet on who needs what accommodations so I can plan around it.

A sub probably would not, but you don't fucking put your hands on a kid.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

The last one is a strawman. I've never said anything like that.

Oh, really?

viewtopic.php?p=33481380#p33481380

Honestly? That's pushing it as it is. It was used to convince kids someone's watching their behaviour, but it's hardly worth the damage in parental credibility. And really, it'd be better to use surveillance cameras in youth centers and at schools and parks in case some kids are faking belief in Santa anyway.

You do recall that Nationstates has a search function? Don't try to gaslight me.

Cut the crap. Either you severely misunderstood without bothering to ask for clarification or you're the one who's gaslighting here. I was plainly referring to the argument that "belief in Santa is an incentive for good behaviour." I was pointing out using such beliefs as incentive for good behaviour are no good when they can be faked anyway. You know, the same thing often said about belief in God? The same reason districts where belief in God is popular are not averse to surveillance? Clearly, people know that belief in God can be faked (and/or lead people down the wrong path anyway, but obviously the voters who redirected all that surveillance equipment to middle schools can't all think religion leads people down the wrong path) and therefore need a human being whose existence can be proven to watch them in a manner whose existence can be proven. Why would belief in Santa be any more reliable?

Of course kids have the right to their beliefs, just as adults have the right to their beliefs. I'm not trying to police the mind. I'm trying to police behaviour.