So what's plan B if defunding cops creates anarchy?

[Romania kingdom 2 Guvern]

I'm I'm boss here so shut up u talk when I say

[Slavakino]

Titoism died when Tito died. It was an artificial construct whose continuing existence depended largely on the personal charisma and force of will of a single person.

Historical evidence does not really corroborate that though. Tito died in 1980 and yet his country survived for another decade. Rather, it appears to me that the existence of Yugoslavia was largely predicated on its position as the de facto leader of the third world block which was the nonaligned movement a power block that made sense in the cold war days but basically lost all meaning in a world without two superpowers staring each other down nukes drawn. That is to say, they were politically neutral and head of a powerful block which made both sides of the cold war want to keep them that way as opposed to having them side with the other. Better a non-ally than an enemy as it were. Thus for as long as they did not openly align with either superpower both had an interest in not trying to destabilize the country and cause it to collapse. Which is exactly what the west did as soon as the Soviets were out of the picture.

I mean, let's be real for a moment. What happened down there was not just some random revolution. It was a civil war. And one where the largest nonaligned army in the world with modern equipment and excellent training lost. And when you combine that with how the whole thing was treated by the west at the time there is no way in hell that it was not a foreign sponsored war like those we see in the middle east.

Civil war based on nationalities and ethnicities. If it wasn't for greedy politicians and their ultranationalist beliefs Yugo wouldn't have fallen or plunged into chaos

[Baltenstein]

Titoism died when Tito died. It was an artificial construct whose continuing existence depended largely on the personal charisma and force of will of a single person.

Historical evidence does not really corroborate that though. Tito died in 1980 and yet his country survived for another decade. Rather, it appears to me that the existence of Yugoslavia was largely predicated on its position as the de facto leader of the third world block which was the nonaligned movement a power block that made sense in the cold war days but basically lost all meaning in a world without two superpowers staring each other down nukes drawn. That is to say, they were politically neutral and head of a powerful block which made both sides of the cold war want to keep them that way as opposed to having them side with the other. Better a non-ally than an enemy as it were. Thus for as long as they did not openly align with either superpower both had an interest in not trying to destabilize the country and cause it to collapse. Which is exactly what the west did as soon as the Soviets were out of the picture.

I mean, let's be real for a moment. What happened down there was not just some random revolution. It was a civil war. And one where the largest nonaligned army in the world with modern equipment and excellent training lost. And when you combine that with how the whole thing was treated by the west at the time there is no way in hell that it was not a foreign sponsored war like those we see in the middle east.

From the moment of Tito's death, a combination of worsening economic conditions and rising ethnic tensions all pointed to Yugoslavia's eventual break-up. The sudden end of the Cold War was just the icing on the cake rather than the original cause.

[Ifreann]

What's plan B if funding the police doesn't stop crime?

Plan B? A helluva lot more people adopting plan A. Buying and using guns in self and property defense. It's already started in fact.

Having guns isn't going to stop crime either.

[Galloism]

Having guns isn't going to stop crime either.

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

[The Alma Mater]

Having guns isn't going to stop crime either.

No, it just makes crime more risky.

Nah,it mostly moves crime. From.being threatened with a knive to threatened with a gun. Maybe less women assualted in the street but more black people being shot.

Not less crime but different crime.

[Gormwood]

Having guns isn't going to stop crime either.

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

Or criminals start arming up and murder rates rise.

[Galloism]

No, it just makes crime more risky.

Nah,it mostly moves crime. From.being threatened with a knive to threatened with a gun. Maybe less women assualted in the street but more black people being shot.

Not less crime but different crime.

Well, because of the way we count crime, yes that's true (and I'm going to ignore the race bait portion of this statement, because it's about crime and criminals, not black people).

So for instance, if Robber_00 bursts into your house with a knife (or gun), and you shoot him dead, that's a murder - he's considered to have murdered himself under the felony murder rule. We don't prosecute it (we don't prosecute dead people), but we still count it as a murder under the felony murder rule.

[Galloism]

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

Or criminals start arming up and murder rates rise.

That's possible too - in fact it's probably already happening. Chicago's murder rate is up, as is their shooting rate, YOY, in significant fashion.

[Grinning Dragon]

Having guns isn't going to stop crime either.

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

The combined last 3 months has attributed to more than 7 million firearms bought and a majority of those purchases were by first time firearm owners.

[The Alma Mater]

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

Or criminals start arming up and murder rates rise.

A quick comparison between the USA and other countries indeed suggests that more guns equals more crime. But correlation is not always causation.

[Galloism]

Or criminals start arming up and murder rates rise.

A quick comparison between the USA and other countries indeed suggests that more guns equals more crime. But correlation is not always causation.

There’s actually a lot of trendline analyses out there of crime and gun presence over time, and the overall takeaway is “not much, it’s hard to tell which direction, and it may be culturally dependent”.

But more guns does probably mean more people are likely to be killed during crimes, and because of the way we classify things in the us, perpetrators who die in the act are victims too. Sometimes of themselves, sometimes of accomplices.

[Galloism]

No, it just makes crime more risky.

To Jim's point though, people are already doing "plan B". 2020 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gun sales - June was a new record with over 3.9 million background checks. The next closest record month to that was 3.7 million background checks - in march of this year. Number three is December of 2015.

The combined last 3 months has attributed to more than 7 million firearms bought and a majority of those purchases were by first time firearm owners.

I’m also somewhat disturbed that my community of men who are dealing with the aftermath of violence (IE, soldiers, police, etc) are by and large arming up in preparation of seeing to their own defense.

This includes people who were so traumatized by it they swore they’d never even own a gun again.

[Zapato]

The combined last 3 months has attributed to more than 7 million firearms bought and a majority of those purchases were by first time firearm owners.

I’m also somewhat disturbed that my community of men who are dealing with the aftermath of violence (IE, soldiers, police, etc) are by and large arming up in preparation of seeing to their own defense.

This includes people who were so traumatized by it they swore they’d never even own a gun again.

When you live in culture of fear in a failing state, it's not so surprising.

[Grinning Dragon]

The combined last 3 months has attributed to more than 7 million firearms bought and a majority of those purchases were by first time firearm owners.

I’m also somewhat disturbed that my community of men who are dealing with the aftermath of violence (IE, soldiers, police, etc) are by and large arming up in preparation of seeing to their own defense.

This includes people who were so traumatized by it they swore they’d never even own a gun again.

Uncertainty causes people to re-evaluate for their own and immediate others safety along with preservation of property and their livelihood, so I can certainly understand why people are tooling up and cannot fault them nor any inclination of finding it disturbing. Then again, I've always been a "always prepare" and a "best to have it and not need it" type fellow.
While talking with one of the neighbors a few days ago, I have learned pretty much the whole neighborhood has tooled up.

[Galloism]

I’m also somewhat disturbed that my community of men who are dealing with the aftermath of violence (IE, soldiers, police, etc) are by and large arming up in preparation of seeing to their own defense.

This includes people who were so traumatized by it they swore they’d never even own a gun again.

When you live in culture of fear in a failing state, it's not so surprising.

I’m also somewhat disturbed that my community of men who are dealing with the aftermath of violence (IE, soldiers, police, etc) are by and large arming up in preparation of seeing to their own defense.

This includes people who were so traumatized by it they swore they’d never even own a gun again.

Uncertainty causes people to re-evaluate for their own and immediate others safety along with preservation of property and their livelihood, so I can certainly understand why people are tooling up and cannot fault them nor any inclination of finding it disturbing. Then again, I've always been a "always prepare" and a "best to have it and not need it" type fellow.
While talking with one of the neighbors a few days ago, I have learned pretty much the whole neighborhood has tooled up.

I understand that, but for some of these guys.

Well, lets just say I'm seeing some warning lights:

[Christian Confederation]

Simple.
1. The Dem Cities Defund or Disband Police, The Rich get Private Security or Leave, Those who can will flee the cities, Everyone else will arm themselves, The Crime Rate will go up (as it already has), Anarchy Insures.
2. The Rest of the country becomes solid Republican, The Country becomes Strongly pro 2A, The Cities become no go zones.
3. Republican President orders the cities be retaken Or The Citizens get Tired of the Anarchy and Elect Republicans Across the Board.
4. Order Restored, The country abandons the Democrats and there Insane Leftist polices.

Or we don't learn anything and let the country's cities collapse into anarchy/Chaos.

Personally I want the 1st.

[Slavakino]

No, it just makes crime more risky.

Nah,it mostly moves crime. From.being threatened with a knive to threatened with a gun. Maybe less women assualted in the street but more black people being shot.

Not less crime but different crime.

Ironic how Swizterland has extremely liberal gun laws but one of the lowest gun deaths as opposed to the USA

[Kowani]

Nah,it mostly moves crime. From.being threatened with a knive to threatened with a gun. Maybe less women assualted in the street but more black people being shot.

Not less crime but different crime.

Ironic how Swizterland has extremely liberal gun laws but one of the lowest gun deaths as opposed to the USA

>Switzerland
>Liberal gun laws

[Vetalia]

Simple, it'll be the mass exodus to suburbia mkII.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Armed citizen militias. They can deal with criminals regardless of liberal or left-wing objections.

[Gormwood]

Armed citizen militias. They can deal with criminals regardless of liberal or left-wing objections.

Armed mob. Great idea.

[Katganistan]

Step #1. Disband the police.

Step #2. Inevitable colossal rise in crime.

Step #3. Introduce the CAREN act, under which crime is less likely to be officially reported due to the risk of ruinous fines and being targeted by the Two Minute Hate Cancel Culture if the reporter and the judge in the inevitable lawsuit isn't absolutely sure it was justified.

Step #4. Less officially reported crime, less crime charges.

Step #5. "What crime! You've got no evidence!"

Don't test for coronavirus, then we don't have to admit we have more cases!
Sorry, they're not taking ideas from the current administration's playbook.

[Galloism]

Armed citizen militias. They can deal with criminals regardless of liberal or left-wing objections.

Armed mob. Great idea.

Unironically, you're right - this is a horrible idea.

It's also the inevitable one people will turn to if people can't trust that police will come to protect them. This is a really bad path we find ourselves on - everyone, regardless of race, has reasons to be concerned that the police will not protect them. Those reasons are different depending on race (and, to a large extent, class) but the general belief that the police will not be there to protect you is getting more broadly accepted. Depending on group, it's seen that they won't because they'll attack you instead, or that they'll be too cowardly to intervene on your behalf when your life and/or property is on the line.

It's a really bad situation we find ourselves in, where there's no right answer. But the logical (if definitely not ideal) answer is that people are going look to their own defense, and we can see that with the NICS numbers and surveys showing that huge numbers of gun nonowners are becoming first time gun owners.

[Slavakino]

Ironic how Swizterland has extremely liberal gun laws but one of the lowest gun deaths as opposed to the USA

>Switzerland
>Liberal gun laws

They are pretty liberal. Hell, you can buy your service rifle from them. Automatic guns and other shit do need further checking which is alright.