So what's plan B if defunding cops creates anarchy?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

The same faith that offers "72 virgins" to martyrs?

See, the Qur'an contradicts itself just like the Bible does, and as such we can no more objectively define "Muslim" than we can define "Christian."

"72 virgins" isn't actually in the Qur'an though. It's in a Hadith of tenuous provenance.

Well, the other interpretation is "72 raisins" and I don't think even the most ardent foodies would endure the agony of a suicide bombing just to try 72 different kinds of raisins. I can hardly be arsed to walk to the nearest fast food place to try their new item.

That said, the other user did make an interesting point about the 72 virgins' willingness. Benefit of a doubt and all that. It just seems so at odds with the way things are on Earth; virgin women aren't exactly known for throwing themselves at male martyrs in our world, so I would doubt it's the case in the afterlife.

I would prefer it if we did not judge entire religions off of single quotes taken out of context and stripped of all nuance and (as I just said) context.

Who gets to say how the context is to be interpreted, then? Their "holy books" are deluges of contradictions, and people don't seem any more comfortable with judging religions by whatever correlates geographically with their popularity.

. . .

Should I create a new thread instead of derailing my own?

[Rojava Free State]

"72 virgins" isn't actually in the Qur'an though. It's in a Hadith of tenuous provenance.

Well, the other interpretation is "72 raisins" and I don't think even the most ardent foodies would endure the agony of a suicide bombing just to try 72 different kinds of raisins. I can hardly be arsed to walk to the nearest fast food place to try their new item.

When you detonate yourself and all you get are raisins as a reward.

[Gormwood]

The same faith that offers "72 virgins" to martyrs?

See, the Qur'an contradicts itself just like the Bible does, and as such we can no more objectively define "Muslim" than we can define "Christian."

"72 virgins" isn't actually in the Qur'an though. It's in a Hadith of tenuous provenance.

It's also hinging on the InCel-centric presumption that the 72 Virgins are all submissive women and/or girls.

[Xeng He]

This is a false dichotomy. We can have a society with little to no crime without relying on an almighty, unaccountable police force that can murder you on camera and retroactively justify it by claiming to be the most paranoid pieces of shit who ever lived.

Do you believe it's possible to have a restrained, accountable police force?

[Bassoe]

That said, the other user did make an interesting point about the 72 virgins' willingness. Benefit of a doubt and all that. It just seems so at odds with the way things are on Earth; virgin women aren't exactly known for throwing themselves at male martyrs in our world, so I would doubt it's the case in the afterlife.

Were the virgins deceased formerly human women, or where they created from scratch in the afterlife?

[Ifreann]

That said, the other user did make an interesting point about the 72 virgins' willingness. Benefit of a doubt and all that. It just seems so at odds with the way things are on Earth; virgin women aren't exactly known for throwing themselves at male martyrs in our world, so I would doubt it's the case in the afterlife.

Were the virgins deceased formerly human women, or where they created from scratch in the afterlife?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[Mirjt]

This is a false dichotomy. We can have a society with little to no crime without relying on an almighty, unaccountable police force that can murder you on camera and retroactively justify it by claiming to be the most paranoid pieces of shit who ever lived.

Do you believe it's possible to have a restrained, accountable police force?

Not really, no. I believe the thesis behind the whole practice, concept, and institution of policing is flawed and authoritarian, and even if you managed to develop a police force that is not as brutal, the very act of policing is brutalizing and is always highly vulnerable to returning to unaccountability.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Well, the other interpretation is "72 raisins" and I don't think even the most ardent foodies would endure the agony of a suicide bombing just to try 72 different kinds of raisins. I can hardly be arsed to walk to the nearest fast food place to try their new item.

There's also a belief that Muhammad never even said that.
It's considered an unreliable hadith.
To answer your second point heaven is supposed to be better than this world.
Thirdly, many Islamic scholars say suicide bombing is not martyrdom but the sin of suicide.
Martyrs are killed by enemy soldiers.

[The Alma Mater]

"72 virgins" isn't actually in the Qur'an though. It's in a Hadith of tenuous provenance.

It's also hinging on the InCel-centric presumption that the 72 Virgins are all submissive women and/or girls.

Actually, it is explicitly metioned they are young and pure boys.

[Mirjt]

Once again, I call on everyone not to judge an entire religion or culture or group of religions or group of cultures based on a single line of text (which may or may not be reliable or translated or interpreted correctly), that has been stripped of its nuance and contexts.

Please remember to be open to people of all faiths, of all religious, spiritual, and non-religious thought and backgrounds.

[The Alma Mater]

Were the virgins deceased formerly human women, or where they created from scratch in the afterlife?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

One. Provided it is the gavotte.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

It's also hinging on the InCel-centric presumption that the 72 Virgins are all submissive women and/or girls.

Actually, it is explicitly metioned they are young and pure boys.

No it isn't. The boy servants serving you wine (it's not forbidden in heaven because you can't get drunk there) is a different thing.
Pederasty is a severe sin in Islam and a just government punishes it with means up to and including death.

[Xeng He]

Not really, no. I believe the thesis behind the whole practice, concept, and institution of policing is flawed and authoritarian, and even if you managed to develop a police force that is not as brutal, the very act of policing is brutalizing and is always highly vulnerable to returning to unaccountability.

We have developed less brutal police forces. I don't know offhand how long they've all been that way, but it's not a hypothetical, and snopes says three nordic countries have been that way since the 2000s.

Granted, this still may involve defunding the police and/or removing some of their immunities though. But I want to know what the proposed alternative would be from people who want to see police cease to be a thing altogether.

[The Alma Mater]

Actually, it is explicitly metioned they are young and pure boys.

No it isn't. The boy servants serving you wine (it's not forbidden in heaven because you can't get drunk there) is a different thing.
Pederasty is a severe sin in Islam and a just government punishes it with means up to and including death.

Pederasty is a sever sin during life - because it is supposed to be your heavenly reward.

[Stellar Colonies]

I wonder what female suicide bombers would get in the Islamic afterlife...

---

Not really, no. I believe the thesis behind the whole practice, concept, and institution of policing is flawed and authoritarian, and even if you managed to develop a police force that is not as brutal, the very act of policing is brutalizing and is always highly vulnerable to returning to unaccountability.

We have developed less brutal police forces. I don't know offhand how long they've all been that way, but it's not a hypothetical, and snopes says three nordic countries have been that way since the 2000s.

Granted, this still may involve defunding the police and/or removing some of their immunities though. But I want to know what the proposed alternative would be from people who want to see police cease to be a thing altogether.

From what I've seen, people who want to 'defund the police' want to transfer some of the funds and responsibilities bestowed upon many American police (such as wellness checks) to people more qualified to handle them (social workers for example).

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Once again, I call on everyone not to judge an entire religion or culture or group of religions or group of cultures based on a single line of text (which may or may not be reliable or translated or interpreted correctly), that has been stripped of its nuance and contexts.

Please remember to be open to people of all faiths, of all religious, spiritual, and non-religious thought and backgrounds.

There's no such thing as being open to "all" faiths. Christianity correlated with votes for the guy promising a "complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States."

Don't get me wrong, that was obviously too extreme and I'm glad he was bluffing, but it really goes to show that Christianity and Islam are by their very nature diametrically opposed. I'm no fan of either faith, I'm just pointing out the self-refuting nature of your statement.

[Katganistan]

To scared to intercede in an assault on a journalist? That's a pathetic justification.

No it is not. Police are scared to do anything.

And yet they are the ones who are armed.

[The Black Forrest]

To scared to intercede in an assault on a journalist? That's a pathetic justification.

No it is not. Police are scared to do anything.

They are? I just watched a video where three Eugene Oregon cops roughed up a 14 year old girl who wasn’t doing anything but carrying her phone. One who may have been one of Trumps Mercs punched some kid on a bike as well.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

No it is not. Police are scared to do anything.

They are? I just watched a video where three Eugene Oregon cops roughed up a 14 year old girl who wasn’t doing anything but carrying her phone. One who may have been one of Trumps Mercs punched some kid on a bike as well.

Yeah and in my Miami police forced a black woman to the ground.
#DownwithFlorida.

[Senkaku]

Seattle PD is claiming that the East Precinct was bombed when they actually just smashed a hole in one of the plywood window covers with a sledgehammer from the inside... (after spending their day rushing protestors unprovoked and throwing flashbangs off the roof of apartment buildings?)

Just fully fabricating provocations, this is shit is getting to the level of a few soldiers going “missing” for a few hours just to get the troops scared and angry and ready to shoot before Tiananmen

[Senkaku]

To scared to intercede in an assault on a journalist? That's a pathetic justification.

No it is not. Police are scared to do anything.

Based on the people who’re getting the shit beat out of them here on an almost daily basis I’m gonna say I don’t think you’re right on this one chief

[Purpelia]

That said, the other user did make an interesting point about the 72 virgins' willingness. Benefit of a doubt and all that. It just seems so at odds with the way things are on Earth; virgin women aren't exactly known for throwing themselves at male martyrs in our world, so I would doubt it's the case in the afterlife.

God orders them to. Seriously, these women are your magical reward for death in battle. There is no way they get a say in it. Hell I find it questionable that they even exist as such as opposed to being magical girls summoned into existence for the sole purpose of serving as sex slaves. And I literally better stop talking about this before I convert my self to Islam.

[Mirjt]

Once again, I call on everyone not to judge an entire religion or culture or group of religions or group of cultures based on a single line of text (which may or may not be reliable or translated or interpreted correctly), that has been stripped of its nuance and contexts.

Please remember to be open to people of all faiths, of all religious, spiritual, and non-religious thought and backgrounds.

There's no such thing as being open to "all" faiths. Christianity correlated with votes for the guy promising a "complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States."

Don't get me wrong, that was obviously too extreme and I'm glad he was bluffing, but it really goes to show that Christianity and Islam are by their very nature diametrically opposed. I'm no fan of either faith, I'm just pointing out the self-refuting nature of your statement.

Except during Islam's Golden Age, Christians and Jews were considered people of the book and were welcomed in the Ottoman Empire (some especially open areas in the Ottoman Empire even included non-Abrahamic faiths, such as Buddhism as people of the book).

Except the Baha'i and the Unitarian Universalists often take inspiration from both Christianity and Islam, among many other religions.

Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions that share two testaments (though the value and interpretation assigned to those testaments vary). Why shouldn't they get along.

I would prefer to live in a world where all different faiths and perspectives (spiritual, religious, or non-religious) can all coexist, and where even if someone disagrees with someone else's religious, spiritual, or non-religious belief we all learn from each other's beliefs to try to enrich our social, cultural, mental, emotional (and for those whom believe in such, spiritual) lives.

[Salus Maior]

Of course defunding cops turns into a religious discussion.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

That said, the other user did make an interesting point about the 72 virgins' willingness. Benefit of a doubt and all that. It just seems so at odds with the way things are on Earth; virgin women aren't exactly known for throwing themselves at male martyrs in our world, so I would doubt it's the case in the afterlife.

God orders them to. Seriously, these women are your magical reward for death in battle. There is no way they get a say in it. Hell I find it questionable that they even exist as such as opposed to being magical girls summoned into existence for the sole purpose of serving as sex slaves. And I literally better stop talking about this before I convert my self to Islam.

What if Allah creates them on and then they choose to because of God-given instincts?
(Like humans)