The NationStates Feminism Thread IV: Fight Like A Girl!

[Vassenor]

Following up on all those men who had their lives ruined by #MeToo and examining just how much damage those allegations did to them.

[Galloism]

Following up on all those men who had their lives ruined by #MeToo and examining just how much damage those allegations did to them.

Meanwhile, multiple men are dead from it. Including a teenage boy.

We also are seeing in real time how an abuser used #MeToo as a cudgel to continuously punish her victim.

What’s a few bodies to step over, right Vass?

[Ostroeuropa]

Following up on all those men who had their lives ruined by #MeToo and examining just how much damage those allegations did to them.

Meanwhile, multiple men are dead from it. Including a teenage boy.

We also are seeing in real time how an abuser used #MeToo as a cudgel to continuously punish her victim.

What’s a few bodies to step over, right Vass?

Selection bias designed to obfuscate reality and lie to women about how oppressed they are and how much harm results from feminist action? From feminists? No, I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Something something "Their lips are moving" something something.

[Suriyanakhon]

Including a teenage boy.

Uhm, it says he killed himself after a girl accused him of sexual assault and an online group of him and other boys discussed sexual violence was revealed, because the other boys telling him he would probably have to speak to the police. Are police not suppose to investigate rape allegations?

[Galloism]

Including a teenage boy.

Uhm, it says he killed himself after a girl accused him of sexual assault and an online group of him and other boys discussed sexual violence was revealed, because the other boys telling him he would probably have to speak to the police. Are police not suppose to investigate rape allegations?

Not saying that they shouldn’t. I’m pointing out her selection bias was stepping over dead bodies while saying “no one was harmed”.

[New haven america]

Following up on all those men who had their lives ruined by #MeToo and examining just how much damage those allegations did to them.

1/2 of America's about the lose bodily autonomy and you're busy complaining about how MeToo totally hasn't turned into a cesspit? I'll pretend to be shocked.

When did it evolve from "I am woman, here me roar!" to "I am woman, listen to me vent and don't you dare offer solutions!"?

[Galloism]

On the flip side, #MenToo is apparently trending on Twitter, and a lot of men are suddenly speaking up about abuse they’ve suffered from women, and a lot of men and women both are talking about all the abuse their fathers sustained from their mothers as they were growing up, and how they never hit back or told anyone because it was so very shameful.

We will see if it holds up or it will drift off, but it’s a place to begin anyway. Might as well start somewhere.

[Stellar Colonies]

On the flip side, #MenToo is apparently trending on Twitter, and a lot of men are suddenly speaking up about abuse they’ve suffered from women, and a lot of men and women both are talking about all the abuse their fathers sustained from their mothers as they were growing up, and how they never hit back or told anyone because it was so very shameful.

We will see if it holds up or it will drift off, but it’s a place to begin anyway. Might as well start somewhere.

I'm not surprised that it's sprouting off the trial, but hopefully it gets some balls rolling and reduces the stigma of coming out regarding abuse that has been suffered (for victims of all groups of abusers of all groups) regardless of how the trial goes, even if only marginally.

Additionally, I'm concerned about how eroding federal protections of abortion could potentially have a negative impact on intactivism and other issues of bodily autonomy in addition to the direct fallout on abortion itself.

[Galloism]

On the flip side, #MenToo is apparently trending on Twitter, and a lot of men are suddenly speaking up about abuse they’ve suffered from women, and a lot of men and women both are talking about all the abuse their fathers sustained from their mothers as they were growing up, and how they never hit back or told anyone because it was so very shameful.

We will see if it holds up or it will drift off, but it’s a place to begin anyway. Might as well start somewhere.

I'm not surprised that it's sprouting off the trial, but hopefully it gets some balls rolling and reduces the stigma of coming out regarding abuse that has been suffered regardless of how the trial goes, even if only marginally.

One can only hope. Bunches of the media are trying to stop that ball from rolling, but hopefully it catches on regardless.

Additionally, I'm concerned about how eroding federal protections of abortion could potentially have a negative impact on intactivism and other issues of bodily autonomy in addition to the direct fallout on abortion itself.

It certainly won’t help. The fight against male genital mutilation didn’t have that great of legs to begin with, and one of the largest arguments was that women possessed bodily autonomy in a way men and boys could only dream of.

The courts appear set to kick that argument to the curb and confidently declare “bodily autonomy for none”.

[Fahran]

Not saying that they shouldn’t. I’m pointing out her selection bias was stepping over dead bodies while saying “no one was harmed”.

I don't think suicide is the correct or a good response, but a boy committing suicide because he'd have to face the consequences of raping other people isn't super damning for #MeToo. I'm more concerned about people who have been falsely accused or the rapists who have been defended because they're woman - such as Alyssa Milano.

[Fahran]

Following up on all those men who had their lives ruined by #MeToo and examining just how much damage those allegations did to them.

1/2 of America's about the lose bodily autonomy and you're busy complaining about how MeToo totally hasn't turned into a cesspit? I'll pretend to be shocked.

When did it evolve from "I am woman, here me roar!" to "I am woman, listen to me vent and don't you dare offer solutions!"?

What solutions do you have to offer for powerful men and women getting away with sexual violence?

[Fahran]

On the flip side, #MenToo is apparently trending on Twitter, and a lot of men are suddenly speaking up about abuse they’ve suffered from women, and a lot of men and women both are talking about all the abuse their fathers sustained from their mothers as they were growing up, and how they never hit back or told anyone because it was so very shameful.

We will see if it holds up or it will drift off, but it’s a place to begin anyway. Might as well start somewhere.

I really hope it does because it needs to be talked about more. I think Johnny Depp's case has increased awareness of domestic abuse when men are the primary victims, and I really hope that trends holds up.

[Forsher]

For reasons I just spent way too long in a carpark. The relevant part of the story is that after I'd already been there for a bit this woman (20s, probably) goes up the lift. A bit after that a man (60s? young 70s? old looking 50s) goes up. They end up coming back down at the same time... but the woman kept going down. And then came up again.

The only thing I can think of is that she was deliberately avoiding being in the carpark at the same time as him. (She also seemed to be stuck to the back wall, but maybe that's just how she uses lifts... I don't remember how she stood the two times she was in there solo.)

Obviously coming to the He Man Woman Haters Club the NS Feminism thread isn't likely to get a female perspective on the episode but it seemed #feminism to me.

Alternatively she forgot which of the two floors she parked on, but that is unrealistic because her parking was a whole saga due to the weird behaviour of the security guard. You'd think she'd remember.

[Galloism]

For reasons I just spent way too long in a carpark. The relevant part of the story is that after I'd already been there for a bit this woman (20s, probably) goes up the lift. A bit after that a man (60s? young 70s? old looking 50s) goes up. They end up coming back down at the same time... but the woman kept going down. And then came up again.

The only thing I can think of is that she was deliberately avoiding being in the carpark at the same time as him. (She also seemed to be stuck to the back wall, but maybe that's just how she uses lifts... I don't remember how she stood the two times she was in there solo.)

Obviously coming to the He Man Woman Haters Club the NS Feminism thread isn't likely to get a female perspective on the episode but it seemed #feminism to me.

Alternatively she forgot which of the two floors she parked on, but that is unrealistic because her parking was a whole saga due to the weird behaviour of the security guard. You'd think she'd remember.

It’s entirely possible she was afraid of him due to his sex or, depending on unsaid variables, race and sex.

I’ve seen people do that when they’re afraid of someone. Especially I’ve seen white people with kids do that regarding black men. It’s typically a bigotry thing, but not always.

[Ostroeuropa]

For reasons I just spent way too long in a carpark. The relevant part of the story is that after I'd already been there for a bit this woman (20s, probably) goes up the lift. A bit after that a man (60s? young 70s? old looking 50s) goes up. They end up coming back down at the same time... but the woman kept going down. And then came up again.

The only thing I can think of is that she was deliberately avoiding being in the carpark at the same time as him. (She also seemed to be stuck to the back wall, but maybe that's just how she uses lifts... I don't remember how she stood the two times she was in there solo.)

Obviously coming to the He Man Woman Haters Club the NS Feminism thread isn't likely to get a female perspective on the episode but it seemed #feminism to me.

Alternatively she forgot which of the two floors she parked on, but that is unrealistic because her parking was a whole saga due to the weird behaviour of the security guard. You'd think she'd remember.

Figures on crime victimization rates and men's lack of behaving this way as regards other men suggests it's not a reaction proportionate to threat, but rather the result of the woman being taught to be overly cautious and paranoid.

Of men, specifically.

And yes, i'm sure it's difficult to be sexist. It must make you awfully afraid to believe that the Jews are living in your plumbing and so on. But nonetheless, critique of this overt paranoia and sexism from women is not "woman hating". Criticism of misandry aims not only to free the prisoner, but also the guard. If women were not taught to hate men as much, they would not experience the world through this lens of fear and paranoia.

I understand "The female experience" as you put it. She's afraid. What I deny is that such a fear is rational or proportional or based in her experiences. Elsewise, we would see men at least as afraid, and probably more. Rather, it is based on societal indoctrination.

[Fahran]

I'd also argue experience plays a role here as well. I mentioned in our previous conversations about street harassment that leering, inappropriate remarks, stalking, unwanted touching, etc. are something experienced by around a quarter of girls before they reach the age of eighteen. I won't speak for the other ladies here, but, yeah, I definitely make a habit of not being alone with men I don't know well. Because that hasn't historically led to good experiences for me.

[Stellar Colonies]

Regardless, there does not seem to be sufficient information to determine what was happening either way.

From what was related, it could be anything between her avoiding someone who was actively being inappropriate to her being unreasonably paranoid of someone just minding his own business.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd also argue experience plays a role here as well. I mentioned in our previous conversations about street harassment that leering, inappropriate remarks, stalking, unwanted touching, etc. are something experienced by around a quarter of girls before they reach the age of eighteen. I won't speak for the other ladies here, but, yeah, I definitely make a habit of not being alone with men I don't know well. Because that hasn't historically led to good experiences for me.

I too have met men who have done nasty things to me. And yet, here we are.

[Fahran]

I'd also argue experience plays a role here as well. I mentioned in our previous conversations about street harassment that leering, inappropriate remarks, stalking, unwanted touching, etc. are something experienced by around a quarter of girls before they reach the age of eighteen. I won't speak for the other ladies here, but, yeah, I definitely make a habit of not being alone with men I don't know well. Because that hasn't historically led to good experiences for me.

I too have met men who have done nasty things to me. And yet, here we are.

You’re understanding this as a function of bigotry. I’m understanding it as a function of trauma.

[Ostroeuropa]

I too have met men who have done nasty things to me. And yet, here we are.

You’re understanding this as a function of bigotry. I’m understanding it as a function of trauma.

Yes, i'm sure living in a society that produces horror movies about men titled simply "Men" has no impact on your perception of the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_(2022_film) usual borked linking issue ) and that the root of it is simply that women are simply inherently more fragile than men (Who experience criminal violence at higher rates).

The Trauma explanation only works if you're telling me women are simply less able to cope with stress than men, or you're ignoring the fact that men experience more of these traumatic events than women. It is a function of bigotry. Your understanding of it as a function of "trauma" is the kind of willful ignorance that modern feminist misandry is built upon.

Let me put it this way Fahran and see if it clicks for you.

If I were to spam society with "Greedy Jew" ideology and rhetoric, and someone met a greedy jew, do you think this might form particular connections in their mind quicker than if they simply met a greedy person who was a Jew without all the constant priming on the subject?

The normal, not mentally disturbed way to react would be "Oh a greedy person". But, with the priming "Greedy Jew" comes to the fore. Let's go a step further. Suppose they start thinking back to that time a Jew was greedy every time they're in a situation with a Jew who will have access to their money. "Ah yes, a function of their experiences. Very normal, very rational.".

Alas, the minds of many women in the modern era are broken by their refusal to take men seriously when they told them they were poisoning themselves by listening to feminists, and i'm bored of taking them seriously when they say this kind of shit. The only appropriate response is "That is repulsive and you should be ashamed of yourself". I have significantly more time for women who recognize the problem and work to fix it, even if they continue to suffer from the effects.

[Knask]

You’re understanding this as a function of bigotry. I’m understanding it as a function of trauma.

Yes, i'm sure living in a society that produces horror movies about men titled simply "Men" has no impact on your perception of the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_(2022_film).

We've come quite a way since we lived in a society that produces horror movies about women titled simply "The Woman". 11 years ago, when we all feared the woman, and it wasn't even an Alex Garland movie.

[Adamede]

You’re understanding this as a function of bigotry. I’m understanding it as a function of trauma.

Yes, i'm sure living in a society that produces horror movies about men titled simply "Men" has no impact on your perception of the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_(2022_film) usual borked linking issue ) and that the root of it is simply that women are simply inherently more fragile than men (Who experience criminal violence at higher rates).

The Trauma explanation only works if you're telling me women are simply less able to cope with stress than men, or you're ignoring the fact that men experience more of these traumatic events than women. It is a function of bigotry. Your understanding of it as a function of "trauma" is the kind of willful ignorance that modern feminist misandry is built upon.

Let me put it this way Fahran and see if it clicks for you.

If I were to spam society with "Greedy Jew" ideology and rhetoric, and someone met a greedy jew, do you think this might form particular connections in their mind quicker than if they simply met a greedy person who was a Jew without all the constant priming on the subject?

The normal, not mentally disturbed way to react would be "Oh a greedy person". But, with the priming "Greedy Jew" comes to the fore. Let's go a step further. Suppose they start thinking back to that time a Jew was greedy every time they're in a situation with a Jew who will have access to their money. "Ah yes, a function of their experiences. Very normal, very rational.".

Alas, the minds of many women in the modern era are broken by their refusal to take men seriously when they told them they were poisoning themselves by listening to feminists, and i'm bored of taking them seriously when they say this kind of shit. The only appropriate response is "That is repulsive and you should be ashamed of yourself". I have significantly more time for women who recognize the problem and work to fix it, even if they continue to suffer from the effects.

Yah I don't think the point of the movie is "men bad".

[Knask]

Yes, i'm sure living in a society that produces horror movies about men titled simply "Men" has no impact on your perception of the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_(2022_film) usual borked linking issue ) and that the root of it is simply that women are simply inherently more fragile than men (Who experience criminal violence at higher rates).

The Trauma explanation only works if you're telling me women are simply less able to cope with stress than men, or you're ignoring the fact that men experience more of these traumatic events than women. It is a function of bigotry. Your understanding of it as a function of "trauma" is the kind of willful ignorance that modern feminist misandry is built upon.

Let me put it this way Fahran and see if it clicks for you.

If I were to spam society with "Greedy Jew" ideology and rhetoric, and someone met a greedy jew, do you think this might form particular connections in their mind quicker than if they simply met a greedy person who was a Jew without all the constant priming on the subject?

The normal, not mentally disturbed way to react would be "Oh a greedy person". But, with the priming "Greedy Jew" comes to the fore. Let's go a step further. Suppose they start thinking back to that time a Jew was greedy every time they're in a situation with a Jew who will have access to their money. "Ah yes, a function of their experiences. Very normal, very rational.".

Alas, the minds of many women in the modern era are broken by their refusal to take men seriously when they told them they were poisoning themselves by listening to feminists, and i'm bored of taking them seriously when they say this kind of shit. The only appropriate response is "That is repulsive and you should be ashamed of yourself". I have significantly more time for women who recognize the problem and work to fix it, even if they continue to suffer from the effects.

Yah I don't think the point of the movie is "men bad".

Have you seen the movie? If not, maybe we need to listen to Ostroeuropa. Sounds like he was at the premiere this weekend, so he must have some deeper insight after having seen it.

Nobody would judge a book by its cover or a movie by its title, right?

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, i'm sure living in a society that produces horror movies about men titled simply "Men" has no impact on your perception of the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_(2022_film).

We've come quite a way since we lived in a society that produces horror movies about women titled simply "The Woman". 11 years ago, when we all feared the woman, and it wasn't even an Alex Garland movie.

Singular V Plural, and not a social commentary.

[Knask]

We've come quite a way since we lived in a society that produces horror movies about women titled simply "The Woman". 11 years ago, when we all feared the woman, and it wasn't even an Alex Garland movie.

Singular V Plural, and not a social commentary.

How is it not?