MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

Yes, most of the Christians I know support the lockdown and streamed services over the internet. Of course the Christian I know mostly don't support Trump. As to what pro-Trump types think, I can only make educated guesses.

There may or may not be support for lockdowns, depending on the individual, but most are opposed to keeping dispensaries open while shutting churches down.
Abbot was- and is- a popular man among the pro-Trump religious right for declaring that churches are essential, even as the vast majority of them shut down anyway.

A lot of people would rather have the dispensaries stay open while keeping the kibosh on large public gatherings... I don’t think churches should host services just because dispensaries or liquor stores are open.

[Solomons Land]

I think only Churches with a high view of the Sacraments (Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, etc.) should have the choice to open, but should still adhere to social distancing regulations. I say this because to us who hold the Sacraments highly, the worst thing about not going to Church isn't "praying" or reading the Bible, it's not receiving God's Grace. You can't receive communion or baptism at home, but you can read and pray at home just fine. If anything, most churches should still continue online services.

Just an opinion.

That would be preferencing some religious groups over others, which is a big no-no.

[Katganistan]

He is trying to get religious rightwing people to continue voting for him. He is "defending" their christian freedom from the oppression of the liberal atheist elite governors or what ever bollocks.

End of the day Churches are not essential. Their function can easily be performed at home and until this epidemic has ended or is nearing its end they should remain closed. In the mean time religious folks can pray in their homes and endanger no one in the process.

The NY archdiocese and the archdiocese of Brooklyn and Queens agree and closed the churches, telling parishioners to view televised services instead. They've also put forward a plan for opening gradually in the coming weeks for private prayer and confession -- with more to follow as the number of cases continues to decline.

[Thermodolia]

The usual suspects aka the super religious conservatives. Ya know the same ones who got their panties in a twist over gays getting married and red Christmas cups from an overpriced coffee shop

This quote seems to suggest that you believe "the same ones who got their panties in a twist over gays getting married" are universally, or near universally against stay at home orders because they believe "this is an attempt to persecute Christians" which is false.

You are still refusing to read my post. You’ve deliberately ignored the part where I said it’s about those who think gays getting married is the end of the world, and not those who disagree with it or think it’s bad.

There’s a lot of difference between thinking X is the end of the world ala WBC and disagreeing with X and thinking it’s bad.

Besides you decided to single out one half of my post to argue against it because it was easier than admitting you misread.

[Godular]

You know, I'd swear that 'God helps those who help themselves' is an important saying in religious circles, but too many people act as if simple faith in God is sufficient to gird them from harm even if they do willfully stupid stuff like gathering in a crowd and totally ignoring safety measures.

Please understand this isn't saying ALL religious folks are like that, and not necessarily even a majority... even if the relative number of offending persons is small, it's still too damn many.

[Thermodolia]

He is trying to get religious rightwing people to continue voting for him. He is "defending" their christian freedom from the oppression of the liberal atheist elite governors or what ever bollocks.

End of the day Churches are not essential. Their function can easily be performed at home and until this epidemic has ended or is nearing its end they should remain closed. In the mean time religious folks can pray in their homes and endanger no one in the process.

The NY archdiocese and the archdiocese of Brooklyn and Queens agree and closed the churches, telling parishioners to view televised services instead. They've also put forward a plan for opening gradually in the coming weeks for private prayer and confession -- with more to follow as the number of cases continues to decline.

The Archdiocese of Atlanta has done the same.

[Spiders about to ambush you]

I think only Churches with a high view of the Sacraments (Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, etc.) should have the choice to open, but should still adhere to social distancing regulations. I say this because to us who hold the Sacraments highly, the worst thing about not going to Church isn't "praying" or reading the Bible, it's not receiving God's Grace. You can't receive communion or baptism at home, but you can read and pray at home just fine. If anything, most churches should still continue online services.

Just an opinion.

That would be preferencing some religious groups over others, which is a big no-no.

True. Then they should let all churches decide if they want to open, but they should still also do online services

[Katganistan]

Study by Columbia University said it was around 30,000-40,000 deaths could have been avoided.

Study you read sounds more like bogus propaganda, tbh. People were going to die regardless; but not as many and not this quickly.



Still seems super relevant if states comply with him.

Which you know some will.

If anything there's a stronger argument that separation of church and state prevents the states from shutting down churches when other businesses are allowed to reopen.

Are churches businesses?

[Solomons Land]

This quote seems to suggest that you believe "the same ones who got their panties in a twist over gays getting married" are universally, or near universally against stay at home orders because they believe "this is an attempt to persecute Christians" which is false.

You are still refusing to read my post. You’ve deliberately ignored the part where I said it’s about those who think gays getting married is the end of the world, and not those who disagree with it or think it’s bad.

There’s a lot of difference between thinking X is the end of the world ala WBC and disagreeing with X and thinking it’s bad.

Even those that believe X (homosexuality) is "the end of the world" do not necessarily oppose the stay-at-home orders.

[Bear Stearns]

I think only Churches with a high view of the Sacraments (Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, etc.) should have the choice to open, but should still adhere to social distancing regulations. I say this because to us who hold the Sacraments highly, the worst thing about not going to Church isn't "praying" or reading the Bible, it's not receiving God's Grace. You can't receive communion or baptism at home, but you can read and pray at home just fine. If anything, most churches should still continue online services.

Just an opinion.

If anything, the lockdown proves that Church was never about the building or the institution, but the people. Checkmate papists.

[Diopolis]

I'll note that this came on the heels of the archdiocese of Minneapolis declaring that they, and their suffragans(so theoretically every Catholic church in Minnesota, but in practice probably less) will be reopening in defiance of government orders.
Trump is picking a side in the controversy, and he's picking the one his base will naturally side with. This announcement didn't happen in a vacuum.

[Thermodolia]

If anything there's a stronger argument that separation of church and state prevents the states from shutting down churches when other businesses are allowed to reopen.

Are churches businesses?

Legally yes

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

It’s fine for the Bishop to keep his flock home, but try telling that to the snake-handlers.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Are churches businesses?

Legally yes

Legally no. Donations aren't profit.

[Thermodolia]

You are still refusing to read my post. You’ve deliberately ignored the part where I said it’s about those who think gays getting married is the end of the world, and not those who disagree with it or think it’s bad.

There’s a lot of difference between thinking X is the end of the world ala WBC and disagreeing with X and thinking it’s bad.

Even those that believe X (homosexuality) is "the end of the world" do not necessarily oppose the stay-at-home orders.

Again you are missing the point. Which is that those who think trivial matters are a threat to Christianity are those who oppose all of this and think it’s a plot to end Christianity.

That’s the point you refuse to see. For what reason I have no idea

[Thermodolia]

Legally yes

Legally no. Donations aren't profit.

You don’t have to have a profit to be a business. Churches are legal corporations just like any other non-profit

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Even those that believe X (homosexuality) is "the end of the world" do not necessarily oppose the stay-at-home orders.

Again you are missing the point. Which is that those who think trivial matters are a threat to Christianity are those who oppose all of this and think it’s a plot to end Christianity.

That’s the point you refuse to see. For what reason I have no idea

Because like all fundies he only focuses on the trivial matters.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Legally no. Donations aren't profit.

You don’t have to have a profit to be a business. Churches are legal corporations just like any other non-profit

A non-profit is not a corporation. That's not how it works.

[Thermodolia]

I'll note that this came on the heels of the archdiocese of Minneapolis declaring that they, and their suffragans(so theoretically every Catholic church in Minnesota, but in practice probably less) will be reopening in defiance of government orders.
Trump is picking a side in the controversy, and he's picking the one his base will naturally side with. This announcement didn't happen in a vacuum.

Ya in that case I’m actually gonna side with the church in this case.

[Solomons Land]

Even those that believe X (homosexuality) is "the end of the world" do not necessarily oppose the stay-at-home orders.

Again you are missing the point. Which is that those who think trivial matters are a threat to Christianity are those who oppose all of this and think it’s a plot to end Christianity.

That’s the point you refuse to see. For what reason I have no idea

Widespread acceptance of homosexuality is not trivial. We can argue if it is good, but homosexuality is an issue and, in any scenario, when there is an issue of contention and one opinion is being spread, the opposing side is going to respond by attempting to counter that acceptance.

[Bear Stearns]

If anything there's a stronger argument that separation of church and state prevents the states from shutting down churches when other businesses are allowed to reopen.

Are churches businesses?

They are technically corporate entities (for purposes of regulation, taxes, etc.), but they are non-profit corporations. Similar to think tanks.

[The Emerald Legion]

And that notion will remain only in our imaginations as long as Democrats and Republicans are in charge.

I am ok with that.

Honestly, you don't seem keen on individual rights to begin with.

[Thermodolia]

You don’t have to have a profit to be a business. Churches are legal corporations just like any other non-profit

A non-profit is not a corporation. That's not how it works.

Yes they are. A legal corporation yes. Not exactly the same as regular parlance but they are a corporation technically

[Katganistan]

Are churches businesses?

Legally yes

They are?
Seems like they should be paying taxes then....

[Solomons Land]

Legally no. Donations aren't profit.

You don’t have to have a profit to be a business. Churches are legal corporations just like any other non-profit

Churches are indeed corporations, but that was not the question. The question was whether or not they are businesses, which they are not. While, in a generic sense, I think churches should be allowed to open roughly around the same time as businesses, I think it is too early to open either.