[POLL] Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual vs. Transexual

[Bromagia]

Why don't you respect ace people?

Pretty sure the "het" part of "cishet" precludes someone from being asexual.

Heteroromantic asexuals exist. Or did you think asexuals don't value romantic love and intimacy?

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

"i dont like sources that show what i dont wanna see!"

Reddit is considered a "source" now?

i dont see why it cannot be

[Cisairse]

Reddit is considered a "source" now?

i dont see why it cannot be

You might as well quote an NS post and say it's a source.

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

i dont see why it cannot be

You might as well quote an NS post and say it's a source.

more like several (sampling matters) and given the context of the question which is some 6 replies behind this i dont see how linking a community with a compilation of yikes-worthy takes is a bad source. biased for sure but we're not talking about how many % of trans people are like that anyway

[Necroghastia]

You might as well quote an NS post and say it's a source.

more like several (sampling matters) and given the context of the question which is some 6 replies behind this i dont see how linking a community with a compilation of yikes-worthy takes is a bad source. biased for sure but we're not talking about how many % of trans people are like that anyway

A community that is dedicated to the assertion that being trans is "just a fetish" is not a place I'd call trustworthy. I'd expect the same behavior from them as the alt-right trolls that attempt to make people think there is support in the gay community for pedophiles, i.e. prone to making shit up.

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

more like several (sampling matters) and given the context of the question which is some 6 replies behind this i dont see how linking a community with a compilation of yikes-worthy takes is a bad source. biased for sure but we're not talking about how many % of trans people are like that anyway

A community that is dedicated to the assertion that being trans is "just a fetish" is not a place I'd call trustworthy. I'd expect the same behavior from them as the alt-right trolls that attempt to make people think there is support in the gay community for pedophiles, i.e. prone to making shit up.

eventual falsification of claims is a fair argument yeah

[Purple Rats]

I think Reddit and NS can be source in a way "I based my opinion on....", but not "that is fact, because Reddit told so"

[Nakena]

I think Reddit and NS can be source in a way "I based my opinion on....", but not "that is fact, because Reddit told so"

NSG is plebbit lite.

[Ifreann]

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/gender

GEN'DER, noun [Latin genus, from geno, gigno; Gr.to beget, or to be born; Eng. kind. Gr. a woman, a wife; Sans. gena, a wife, and genaga, a father. We have begin from the same root. See Begin and Can.]

1. Properly, kind; sort.

2. A sex, male or female.

Someone who normally experiences no attraction whatsoever, but does after forming a very close bond with a specific person? Hmmm... I guess I would call them "someone who normally experiences no attraction whatsoever, but does after forming a very close bond with a specific person" and not pretend it's somehow equivalent to a sexual orientation.

You just cited a dictionary from 1828 m8

I am willing to duel Noah Webster to settle any definition on which he and I disagree.

Which is to say I am willing to shoot Noah Webster's grave.

[Stanmenistan]

Cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning "on this side of"
You can use the term "non-trans" or "Binary" if you prefer.

I think a better term to describe both Transgenders and NBs would be Birth Gender Variant people. It's a bit of a mouthful, but it describes both groups fairly in my eyes.

The antonym of cis- is trans-. Coincidence? Or does being transgender not have anything to do with transitioning?

Again, I know what it means in Rome. To most people in the modern world, the trans in transgender means transitioning from one (primary) gender to the other (male to female or female to male i.e. Transitioning), not feeling like a mix of the two or other descriptions of NB identities.

If Stonewall, the UK's leading LGBTQ+ charity, says not all NB people see themselves as Trans, I think I believe them. I'm not saying they don't overlap in some cases, but AFAIK, most NB people don't have surgery or use hormone therapy like Transgenders do. I think the term Birth Gender Divergent (or just Gender Divergent) would be a better description for both Transgenders and NBs.

---

Just speaking about the title, Transsexual is kind of an archaic term, largely replaced by Transgender. Probably because the sexual in Transsexual means biological sex, whereas in Homosexual or Bisexual it means attracted to members of the same sex or both sexes respectively. Since Trans and LGB communities often worked together, this created a lot of confusion for outsiders.

[Ifreann]

The antonym of cis- is trans-. Coincidence? Or does being transgender not have anything to do with transitioning?

Again, I know what it means in Rome. To most people in the modern world, the trans in transgender means transitioning from one (primary) gender to the other (male to female or female to male i.e. Transitioning), not feeling like a mix of the two or other descriptions of NB identities.

I can't speak to "most people" and what they may or may not think, but I've never thought that that's what the word meant.

If Stonewall, the UK's leading LGBTQ+ charity, says not all NB people see themselves as Trans, I think I believe them. I'm not saying they don't overlap in some cases, but AFAIK, most NB people don't have surgery or use hormone therapy like Transgenders do. I think the term Birth Gender Divergent (or just Gender Divergent) would be a better description for both Transgenders and NBs.

If we need new terminology I expect trans people will let us know what they'd prefer.

[Purple Rats]

If Stonewall, the UK's leading LGBTQ+ charity, says not all NB people see themselves as Trans, I think I believe them. I'm not saying they don't overlap in some cases, but AFAIK, most NB people don't have surgery or use hormone therapy like Transgenders do. I think the term Birth Gender Divergent (or just Gender Divergent) would be a better description for both Transgenders and NBs.

---

Just speaking about the title, Transsexual is kind of an archaic term, largely replaced by Transgender. Probably because the sexual in Transsexual means biological sex, whereas in Homosexual or Bisexual it means attracted to members of the same sex or both sexes respectively. Since Trans and LGB communities often worked together, this created a lot of confusion for outsiders.

Duuuuuuuude. Really? BIRTH GENDER? Look. Nobinaries don't think they are trans, yes, you are right about that. But there is a reason why we say "assigned male / female". If you say "birth gender" then it means that they were born in one gender, changed it.
If you say "assigned gender", then it means doctor decided how to call them, but they were still who they are.

People who have surgery does not change their gender, because your genitals does not dictate your gender, they just change their body.
Same way are nonbinaries also not divergent to their "birth gender".

[Purple Rats]

If we need new terminology I expect trans people will let us know what they'd prefer.

THIS! Because it's not about you.

(I edited my post, as I misunderstood a word before)

[Agarntrop]

If Stonewall, the UK's leading LGBTQ+ charity, says not all NB people see themselves as Trans, I think I believe them. I'm not saying they don't overlap in some cases, but AFAIK, most NB people don't have surgery or use hormone therapy like Transgenders do. I think the term Birth Gender Divergent (or just Gender Divergent) would be a better description for both Transgenders and NBs.

---

Just speaking about the title, Transsexual is kind of an archaic term, largely replaced by Transgender. Probably because the sexual in Transsexual means biological sex, whereas in Homosexual or Bisexual it means attracted to members of the same sex or both sexes respectively. Since Trans and LGB communities often worked together, this created a lot of confusion for outsiders.

Duuuuuuuude. Really? BIRTH GENDER? Look. Nobinaries don't think they are trans, yes, you are right about that. But there is a reason why we say "assigned male / female". If you say "birth gender" then it means that they were born in one gender, changed it.
If you say "assigned gender", then it means doctor decided how to call them, but they were still who they are.

People who have surgery does not change their gender, because your genitals does not dictate your gender, they just change their body.
Same way are nonbinaries also not divergent to their "birth gender".

...

[Purple Rats]

...

?

[The Emerald Legion]

They are anti-trans movements not anti-LGB

lol and when they finish whatever work they've got to finish with trans people and need to keep their momentum going and set sights on a new target, who're they going to set their sights on?

I find it hilarious that now it's the progressives re-using the old slippery slope argument to avoid doing things. You really have become the conservatives of yesteryear.

[Heloin]

lol and when they finish whatever work they've got to finish with trans people and need to keep their momentum going and set sights on a new target, who're they going to set their sights on?

I find it hilarious that now it's the progressives re-using the old slippery slope argument to avoid doing things. You really have become the conservatives of yesteryear.

Stopping transphobes from casting a group of people to the wayside for solely bigoted reasons is conservative? So much for the tolerant left.

[Kannap]

lol and when they finish whatever work they've got to finish with trans people and need to keep their momentum going and set sights on a new target, who're they going to set their sights on?

I find it hilarious that now it's the progressives re-using the old slippery slope argument to avoid doing things. You really have become the conservatives of yesteryear.

Except instead of some nightmare fantasy where the LGBT community weaponizes the gay, turns everybody else gay, and takes over the world; this is a valid concern that a group of people who have been very vocal about hating us, killing us, or "fixing" not very long ago and a decent number who still do are still around the corner, ready to work us down again if they manage to break the trans community.

[Cekoviu]

The antonym of cis- is trans-. Coincidence? Or does being transgender not have anything to do with transitioning?

Again, I know what it means in Rome. To most people in the modern world, the trans in transgender means transitioning from one (primary) gender to the other (male to female or female to male i.e. Transitioning), not feeling like a mix of the two or other descriptions of NB identities.

I'm pretty sure that's what you think and you're just projecting it onto society as a whole to make it seem like your argument has more weight.

[Stanmenistan]

Again, I know what it means in Rome. To most people in the modern world, the trans in transgender means transitioning from one (primary) gender to the other (male to female or female to male i.e. Transitioning), not feeling like a mix of the two or other descriptions of NB identities.

I'm pretty sure that's what you think and you're just projecting it onto society as a whole to make it seem like your argument has more weight.

Again, I know what it means in Rome. To most people in the modern world, the trans in transgender means transitioning from one (primary) gender to the other (male to female or female to male i.e. Transitioning), not feeling like a mix of the two or other descriptions of NB identities.

I can't speak to "most people" and what they may or may not think, but I've never thought that that's what the word meant.

Look, for many, many, many years (if not DECADES) transgender/transgendered/transsexual meant a person who changed their gender identity from male to female or vice-versa. I think that is the definition your average Joe or Jane off the street would give, whether they are cis or "traditionally" trans.

I'm certainly not the only person who think trans in transgender means transition.

[Stanmenistan]

If Stonewall, the UK's leading LGBTQ+ charity, says not all NB people see themselves as Trans, I think I believe them. I'm not saying they don't overlap in some cases, but AFAIK, most NB people don't have surgery or use hormone therapy like Transgenders do. I think the term Birth Gender Divergent (or just Gender Divergent) would be a better description for both Transgenders and NBs.

---

Just speaking about the title, Transsexual is kind of an archaic term, largely replaced by Transgender. Probably because the sexual in Transsexual means biological sex, whereas in Homosexual or Bisexual it means attracted to members of the same sex or both sexes respectively. Since Trans and LGB communities often worked together, this created a lot of confusion for outsiders.

Duuuuuuuude. Really? BIRTH GENDER? Look. Nonbinaries don't think they are trans, yes, you are right about that. But there is a reason why we say "assigned male / female". If you say "birth gender" then it means that they were born in one gender, changed it.
If you say "assigned gender", then it means doctor decided how to call them, but they were still who they are.

People who have surgery does not change their gender, because your genitals does not dictate your gender, they just change their body.
Same way are nonbinaries also not divergent to their "birth gender".

Okay, Assigned Gender Divergent or AGD for short. AGDs can be Trans or NB, but they are different categories of AGD people.

Thanks for pointing out Nonbinaries don't think they are trans, yes, you are right about that. It's nice to finally have someone agree with me on that point.

If we need new terminology I expect trans people will let us know what they'd prefer.

Just because I'm a Cishet male doesn't mean I can't give ideas for new terminology for the LGBTQ+ community.

[Kannap]

If we need new terminology I expect trans people will let us know what they'd prefer.

Just because I'm a Cishet male doesn't mean I can't give ideas for new terminology for the LGBTQ+ community.

That's right, and we'll take those suggestions about as seriously as you convey them

[Stanmenistan]

Just because I'm a Cishet male doesn't mean I can't give ideas for new terminology for the LGBTQ+ community.

That's right, and we'll take those suggestions about as seriously as you convey them

Most of (if not all) the other terms the LGBTQ+ community were invented by Cishets AFAIK.

[Crockerland]

You keep saying this, but what do you have to back it up?

GLAAD released a really good poll on the topic last year comparing numbers from 2016 to 2018. The % of young people who view themselves as allies to the LGBT+ movement has fallen from 63% to 45%, and amongst young men in particular the number has plummeted from 62% to 35%.

If anyone was wondering, this isn't true at all.

https://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/Accelerating%20Acceptance%202019.pdf
The GLAAD poll did not survey anyone on whether they viewed themselves as allies.

Here's what the GLAAD poll actually measured: of the 1,700 or so polled individuals, they were asked to rate how comfortable they were with the following situations:
-"Learning a family member is LGBTQ,"
-"My child placed in a class with an LGBTQ teacher,"
-"Learning my doctor is LGBTQ,"
-"Learning my child had a lesson on LGBTQ history in their school,"
-"Having LGBT members at my place of worship,"
-"Seeing an LGBT co-worker's wedding picture,"
-"Seeing a same-sex couple holding hands"

Based on this, GLAAD assigned them the label of either "Ally," "Detached Supporter," or "Resister," this has absolutely no indication as to what percentage of respondents consider themselves allies. In order to have GLAAD count them as an "ally", they had to be comfortable with every situation. They also take count of what percentage of people are "very" or "somewhat" uncomfortable with each situation, and compare it to previous years.



For 4 of the situations, the difference between 2016 and 2018 was so minor (0-2 percentage points) that it could be safely written off as statistical noise (the rate of people uncomfortable in 2018 was also less than in 2017 for 3 of these). The only situations that saw an actual notable increase of 3+ points in discomfort from 2016 to 2018 were "My child placed in a class with an LGBT[Q] teacher," "Learning my child has a lesson on LGBT[Q] history in school," and "Learning a family member is LGBT[Q]."

GLAAD's report on their website gives contradictory information on whether the term used in the poll for these specific questions was "LGBT" or "LGBTQ." I would myself be uncomfortable if I had kids and found out they were placed in a class with a "Q" teacher or learning "Q" history in school, it doesn't indicate anything about my views on the "LGBT" part of the acronym, who I would have no problem with. The GLAAD poll makes itself less reliable by trying to muddy the waters. "Do you support vaping and nuking all major European cities? Whoa, 90% of people are against vaping according to our new survey!"

(There are other problems with some of these questions anyways. What percentage of people who are uncomfortable seeing a same-sex couple hold hands would also be uncomfortable seeing an opposite-sex couple hold hands? See how the question doesn't tell us much of anything meaningful without that information, if we're trying to measure LGBT equal acceptance compared to acceptance of heterosexual and non-trans people?)



The survey also asks respondents a more simple question: Whether or not they (according to themselves) support equal rights for LGBT people. GLAAD actually found that people support equality more in 2018 than they did in 2017 or 2016, though just by one percentage point. Quite contrary to what WRA's false claims would lead you to believe.

[Purple Rats]

That's right, and we'll take those suggestions about as seriously as you convey them

Most of (if not all) the other terms the LGBTQ+ community were invented by Cishets AFAIK.

You can give your opinion, for sure, but if LGBTQ+ people will say that they don't agree with you, then it would be wise to listen to them.