Abortion Law Reform Passes in New Zealand

[Katganistan]

Nowhere did I write that pregnancy is a punishment. It is actually a bliss in marriage to found a happy family.

Human life is a gift, and it pains me to think that the people who supported this Act the most (Green Party MPs) would go into bat for species of wild animals but not for the preservation of human life.

The prevention of potential human life.

[Katganistan]

You quote the bible as if it is a historical account. This alone shows you know so little that anyone listening to your thoughts are suffering brain damage.

The Holy Bible is of course a historical account and you don't know what you're writing. If you aren't baptised I strongly advise you to let baptise yourself in the Catholic Church and if you already are, repent and receive the sacrament of Penance, please.

Very condescending, and insulting to anyone who does not choose to be Christian, whether because they are another faith or choose not to believe in a deity.

Besides, it's hard to prove anyone in it actually existed -- there is no supporting evidence.

[Katganistan]

Condoms, the pill and coitus interruptus are a thing though.

And abortion is another tool in that box. Because those first three tools don't always work.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

TIL out of 303,000 maternal deaths yearly worldwide 15% is attributed to unsafe abortion (as reported by the UN). This, is a problem. That's 45 thousand women yearly that didn't need to die dying.

[Rojava Free State]

You quote the bible as if it is a historical account. This alone shows you know so little that anyone listening to your thoughts are suffering brain damage.

The Holy Bible is of course a historical account and you don't know what you're writing. If you aren't baptised I strongly advise you to let baptise yourself in the Catholic Church and if you already are, repent and receive the sacrament of Penance, please.

The Shadow Over Innsmouth is of course a historical account and you don't know what you're writing. If you aren't baptised I strongly advise you to let baptise yourself in the Cult of Dagon and if you already are, repent and receive the sacrament of the deep ones, please.

I have as much proof for Dagon as you have for the Lord. Just sayin'

[Rojava Free State]

Condoms, the pill and coitus interruptus are a thing though.

And abortion is another tool in that box. Because those first three tools don't always work.

I would prefer not to use the fourth tool not because I'm some pro lifer so much as it's just more dificult. I mean what sounds easier, taking a pill or having a doctor physically remove a proto-human from inside of you?

[Katganistan]

What's sad is that people are losing reverence and respect for human life.

Remember that time God in the bible destroyed sodom and gmorrah and killed everyone inside for what the men did? What was that about respecting human life?

Remember the flood, where he wiped out all humanity except Noah and his family, and two each of animals?

[Rojava Free State]

Remember that time God in the bible destroyed sodom and gmorrah and killed everyone inside for what the men did? What was that about respecting human life?

Remember the flood, where he wiped out all humanity except Noah and his family, and two each of animals?

Remember that time God burned someone in hell for making one mistake?

Well actually that was too many times to count.

[Katganistan]

You mean ignoring the responsibility people have to family and community?

Some in "the community" might want her to have a baby, some might not.

Some in "her family" might want her to have a baby, some might not.

If this were really about the community or her family, they'd be given a vote in this, case by case. Not that I think they should, but even that would be better than banning it altogether.

Women. Are. Not. Property.
Let's put vasectomies up for vote and see how fast you all try to weasel out of it.

[Strahcoin]

New Zealand has legalised abortion, removing the practice from the Crimes Act and liberalising access to abortion services.

The final vote on the bill passed 68 to 51, it will now head to the Governor-General for the royal assent before becoming law.

The new law liberalises abortion rules, treating the practice as a health matter rather than a criminal one.

People will now be able to access abortions from a health practitioner in the first 20 weeks of pregnancy.

After 20 weeks, people will still be able to accesss abortions, but only after proving to two health practitioners that an abortion is "clinically appropriate," with the regard to their physical and mental health and wellbeing.

That's unfortunate. I wonder how those in the future would view our condoning of such barbaric practices.

All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?

Most of those in opposition are guys as well - because they of course must have a say over a woman's body? (imo, if you're against abortion then don't get one)


Regardless, good on my country for passing this - this is the result of decades of social rights work advocacy right here

As for the safe-zones? That fell short due to the parliament meeting being at 11pm... many of the MP's were drousy and faing asleep at the wheel.. oops

Do the various pro-life women (including those who were formerly supportive of abortion legalization) not count? Norma McCovey? Abby Johnson? A number of rape survivors who choose life of the child over abortion?

I'm quite conflicted on the topic of abortion. On one hand, it is the right for a woman to choose. But I don't like taking the life of an unborn child that if it was allowed to be born would grow up to be a living human. But in the end I' m pro-choice. But a little bit of convincing could turn me into pro-life. But a little bit of convincing could also turn me back into pro-choice.

I see. I'll try my best to bring you to the pro-life side.

You see, there is little, if any, difference between a fetus inside the womb and a newborn outside the womb. It has (more or less) full human DNA, and so it is a member of the Homo sapiens species. A lot of the development that makes the fetus look "human" occur within the first trimester. The first heartbeat starts within the first trimester. There were some cases where (supposedly) the fetus moved to avoid the lethal injection. And the brain... does not fully develop until long after one is born (and killing an innocent outside the womb is pretty widely considered murder). Therefore, I think a fetus is a person and should have the same natural rights and legal protections as us. And the "choice" to take the life of an unborn innocent child deprives the child of his/her choice to live.

Some may say that since the fetus isn't "viable" on his/her own, the mother has the right to do what she wishes with him/her. However, an infant - with the same legal protections as an adult (if not more) - cannot survive on his/her own. Therefore, the viability part of the argument does not hold.

I can understand that some may be reluctant to restrict/ban abortion. However, as far as I see it, it's necessary if we want to protect the natural rights of all innocent people.

It’s abortion dude. It was bound to happen

I...guess? Now I know firsthand why an abortion thread is....unpleasant, somehow.

Too bad. I would prefer civil debate and enlightening minds over ad hominems and insulting those who disagree.

Remember that time God in the bible destroyed sodom and gmorrah and killed everyone inside for what the men did? What was that about respecting human life?

Remember the flood, where he wiped out all humanity except Noah and his family, and two each of animals?

Remember the flood, where he wiped out all humanity except Noah and his family, and two each of animals?

Remember that time God burned someone in hell for making one mistake?

Well actually that was too many times to count.

Wait wait wait... since when did this become a religion thread? I thought we were talking about abortion.

[Sundiata]

Some in "the community" might want her to have a baby, some might not.

Some in "her family" might want her to have a baby, some might not.

If this were really about the community or her family, they'd be given a vote in this, case by case. Not that I think they should, but even that would be better than banning it altogether.

Women. Are. Not. Property.
Let's put vasectomies up for vote and see how fast you all try to weasel out of it.

I agree, I'm opposed to vasectomies for the same underlying reason we as Catholics are opposed to contraception and abortion.

[Godular]

The Holy Bible is of course a historical account and you don't know what you're writing. If you aren't baptised I strongly advise you to let baptise yourself in the Catholic Church and if you already are, repent and receive the sacrament of Penance, please.

The Shadow Over Innsmouth is of course a historical account and you don't know what you're writing. If you aren't baptised I strongly advise you to let baptise yourself in the Cult of Dagon and if you already are, repent and receive the sacrament of the deep ones, please.

I have as much proof for Dagon as you have for the Lord. Just sayin'

HERETIC! CTHULHU FTAGHN!

[The New California Republic]

Let's put vasectomies up for vote and see how fast you all try to weasel out of it.

I still don't trust you with scissors Kat.

[Saturna1ia]

I think what matters most is not whether New Zealanders have legal or illegal (considering it is something that will happen either way) access to abortion, but that they err on the side of moral decency and responsibility on the matter of abortion itself. Are kiwis an educated and upstanding people? Generally, I believe they are. I suspect, and hope, abortion rates will still go down overall regardless of legal framework.

[Thermodolia]

It's their fault for following basic biological needs over ridiculous ideological mandate!

Well sex is pretty far from a basic biological need, but regardless, your need for sex does not justify harming another human being - hence rape being criminalized. You're free to have sex or not have sex, you're not free to kill an innocent child because you don't like the consequences of your choice.

Then we extensively promote contraceptives and the morning after pill to limit the need to have an abortion. In addition we should also increase funding for single parents and children so that if someone decides to keep the child they can

[Godular]

Well sex is pretty far from a basic biological need, but regardless, your need for sex does not justify harming another human being - hence rape being criminalized. You're free to have sex or not have sex, you're not free to kill an innocent child because you don't like the consequences of your choice.

Then we extensively promote contraceptives and the morning after pill to limit the need to have an abortion. In addition we should also increase funding for single parents and children so that if someone decides to keep the child they can

Free pregnancy-related healthcare and comprehensive sex ed would go a long way as well.

[Thermodolia]

Source please.

I can vouch for it. Keshiland was his name. He was declared DOS.

No he wasn’t he was DEATd but not DOSd

[Cekoviu]

I can vouch for it. Keshiland was his name. He was declared DOS.

No he wasn’t he was DEATd but not DOSd

Well, his account is gone and he's not back, so it doesn't really matter here which one it is.

[Thermodolia]

So abortions should always be available.

When the mothers life is threatened, yes. Getting an abortion just because you don’t want a kid is selfish and you should have practiced abstinence.

Abstinence doesn’t work. We need to promote contraceptives to reduce the number of abortions. Abstinence does the opposite

[Cekoviu]

When the mothers life is threatened, yes. Getting an abortion just because you don’t want a kid is selfish and you should have practiced abstinence.

Abstinence doesn’t work. We need to promote contraceptives to reduce the number of abortions. Abstinence does the opposite

Well, the act of abstinence itself does reduce abortions. It's just that people aren't going to do that because it's terrible.

[Thermodolia]

Then we extensively promote contraceptives and the morning after pill to limit the need to have an abortion. In addition we should also increase funding for single parents and children so that if someone decides to keep the child they can

Free pregnancy-related healthcare and comprehensive sex ed would go a long way as well.

Definitely agree. However the Christian Right refuses to allow such things.

Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. It should be a matter of last resort

[New haven america]

A sad day for New Zealand. Jesus wept.

The liberalization of abortion is something I lament. However, the feasibility of an outright ban needs to lead to certain conditions. Most specifically, a society which values life.

The vast majority of pro-lifers only care about the life of the "Child" until they pop out of their moms, after that they're leeches of the welfare system and burdens to good, hardworking countrymen.

[Necroghastia]

Good. A shame it took this long.

[The New California Republic]

I can vouch for it. Keshiland was his name. He was declared DOS.

No he wasn’t he was DEATd but not DOSd

No, the last I heard was that the Mods were having discussions about his future after he had multiple lengthy bans and multiple nations DEATed (including his last known puppet on here, "NewLiberalParty"); and since DOS status is not announced, it was assumed that he was declared DOS.

[Thermodolia]

No he wasn’t he was DEATd but not DOSd

No, the last I heard was that the Mods were having discussions about his future after he had multiple lengthy bans and multiple nations DEATed (including his last known puppet on here, "NewLiberalParty"); and since DOS status is not announced, it was assumed that he was declared DOS.

Huh. Well seems I missed that