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Has atheism made the world a better place?

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Satuga
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Postby Satuga » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:28 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Panslav wrote:I'll quote Karl Marx here: "Religion is opium for the people"

You realize Marx meant that as a sort of compliment to religion, right?

I thought marx was against religion?
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I much prefer uniforms, soldiers, clear lines of authority, order.
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Panslav
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Postby Panslav » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Panslav wrote:I'll quote Karl Marx here: "Religion is opium for the people"

You realize Marx meant that as a sort of compliment to religion, right?


Not really, he meant that Religion can be used to manipulate people.
Russian Socialist, Materialist Atheist, Fellow Gamer

Political compass results:
Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97
8Values results:
Economic Axis: 83.3% Equality (Socialist)
Diplomatic Axis: 78.9% Internationalism (Internationalist)
Civil Axis: 80.2% Liberty (Libertarian)
Societal Axis: 95.1% Progress (Revolutionary)

Total: Libertarian Socialism

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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 am

Panslav wrote:
Hakons wrote:
That's a disgusting analogy


Disgusting, yet so true.


The propegation of my religion isn't comparable to child rape. It's a disgusting analogy that can only be maintained by internet anonymity. Would you say such a repulsive thing in front of your parents, your neighbors, your children?
Last edited by Hakons on Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:30 am

Satuga wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You realize Marx meant that as a sort of compliment to religion, right?

I thought marx was against religion?

Marx was, but in the context of that quote, he is using Opium in the sense of a painkiller, not in the sense of a narcotic.
Christian Anarcho-Monarchist. If you're confused about how that works, send me a TG and I'll explain it. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
"We were the Leopards, the Lions, those who'll take our place will be little jackals, hyenas; and the whole lot of us, Leopards, jackals, and sheep, we'll all go on thinking ourselves the salt of the earth."
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:30 am

No. The world can only be made a better place by equality and protection of human dignity. Neither religion nor atheism can accomplish that.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:30 am

Panslav wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:You realize Marx meant that as a sort of compliment to religion, right?


Not really, he meant that Religion can be used to manipulate people.

No he wasn't, lol, read Marx.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".
Christian Anarcho-Monarchist. If you're confused about how that works, send me a TG and I'll explain it. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
"We were the Leopards, the Lions, those who'll take our place will be little jackals, hyenas; and the whole lot of us, Leopards, jackals, and sheep, we'll all go on thinking ourselves the salt of the earth."
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Satuga
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Postby Satuga » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:31 am

Hakons wrote:
Panslav wrote:
Disgusting, yet so true.


The propegation of my religion isn't comparable to child rape. It's a disgusting analogy that can only be maintained by internet anonymity. Would you say such a repulsive thing in front of your parents, your neighbors, your children?

It's not literal child rape it's still an analogy about not preaching your religion to everyone and anyone.
Alt-Acc: Kronotek.
Funny quotes:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I don’t like democracy. It’s messy, disorderly, unclean.

I much prefer uniforms, soldiers, clear lines of authority, order.
Tarsonis wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Can the pair of you go do it in one of the myriad American politics threads?

(Image)


So help me I will throw your tea into the harbor again

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am

Hakons wrote:
Panslav wrote:
Disgusting, yet so true.


The propegation of my religion isn't comparable to child rape. It's a disgusting analogy that can only be maintained by internet anonymity. Would you say such a repulsive thing in front of your parents, your neighbors, your children?

I would actually. My mum would probably laugh.
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Antityranicals
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Postby Antityranicals » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am

Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:34 am

Antityranicals wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.

That's not necessarily accurate. Although atheism hasn't made the world a better place, it has been incredibly beneficial to individual people.
Music is what makes us human. It contains all emotions, all wisdom, all experience. How could we live without it? How could we breathe without air, speak without words?

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Panslav
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Postby Panslav » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:34 am

Antityranicals wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.


"Ladies and gentlemen, religion is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that atheism made the world a better place, but Religion has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield."

I think you meant this, right?
Russian Socialist, Materialist Atheist, Fellow Gamer

Political compass results:
Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97
8Values results:
Economic Axis: 83.3% Equality (Socialist)
Diplomatic Axis: 78.9% Internationalism (Internationalist)
Civil Axis: 80.2% Liberty (Libertarian)
Societal Axis: 95.1% Progress (Revolutionary)

Total: Libertarian Socialism

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:34 am

Satuga wrote:
Hakons wrote:
The propegation of my religion isn't comparable to child rape. It's a disgusting analogy that can only be maintained by internet anonymity. Would you say such a repulsive thing in front of your parents, your neighbors, your children?

It's not literal child rape it's still an analogy about not preaching your religion to everyone and anyone.


Is there a reason you shouldn't?
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:34 am

Satuga wrote:
Hakons wrote:
The propegation of my religion isn't comparable to child rape. It's a disgusting analogy that can only be maintained by internet anonymity. Would you say such a repulsive thing in front of your parents, your neighbors, your children?

It's not literal child rape it's still an analogy about not preaching your religion to everyone and anyone.


What if I don't want you to teach secular morality to my children? Is that a similar situation? Why do you single out religious belief, when society imposes morality on every child? Further, why is it wrong to teach good morality. Would it be analogous to child rape if a child was taught that murder is wrong?
"Our world no longer hears God because it is constantly speaking, at a devastating speed and volume, in order to say nothing." - Cardinal Sarah

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Antityranicals
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Postby Antityranicals » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:35 am

Panslav wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.


"Ladies and gentlemen, religion is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that atheism made the world a better place, but Religion has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield."

I think you meant this, right?

Not at all. The idea that the universe came to be without a cause is simply senseless. Claiming that you don't know much about that cause is respectable, that is the position of deism. But to claim that it has no cause is simply daft.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

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Satuga
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Postby Satuga » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Satuga wrote:It's not literal child rape it's still an analogy about not preaching your religion to everyone and anyone.


Is there a reason you shouldn't?

Because people get annoyed to shit when you push shit onto them.
Alt-Acc: Kronotek.
Funny quotes:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I don’t like democracy. It’s messy, disorderly, unclean.

I much prefer uniforms, soldiers, clear lines of authority, order.
Tarsonis wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Can the pair of you go do it in one of the myriad American politics threads?

(Image)


So help me I will throw your tea into the harbor again

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Antityranicals
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Postby Antityranicals » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 am

Geneviev wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.

That's not necessarily accurate. Although atheism hasn't made the world a better place, it has been incredibly beneficial to individual people.

Whom, exactly, has atheism benefitted?
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 am

Hakons wrote:Atheism has proliferated apostasy from the truth of religion. This alone makes it a negative effect on society, and more importantly it is deadly to heavenly society. Atheism destroys the joy of souls.


And yet on average the non-religious are happier than the religious according to surveys.

And what truth? The one about an angry old man in the sky who will throw you into a burning pit for eternity because one time you smoked pot or you didn't quite sing his praises in the right way? Or the one about how God will only ever interact with his creations through his chosen (surprisingly often very rich and powerful) representatives- who often are the most psychotic, greedy, corrupted and uncaring specimens that humanity has to offer?

Geneviev wrote:No. The world can only be made a better place by equality and protection of human dignity. Neither religion nor atheism can accomplish that.


But religion has become a default refuge and excuse for those who seek to justify inequality or destroying human dignity.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Geneviev
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Geneviev » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 am

Antityranicals wrote:
Panslav wrote:
"Ladies and gentlemen, religion is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that atheism made the world a better place, but Religion has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield."

I think you meant this, right?

Not at all. The idea that the universe came to be without a cause is simply senseless. Claiming that you don't know much about that cause is respectable, that is the position of deism. But to claim that it has no cause is simply daft.

There are scientific explanations of the cause.
Music is what makes us human. It contains all emotions, all wisdom, all experience. How could we live without it? How could we breathe without air, speak without words?

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Duvniask
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Postby Duvniask » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:37 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Panslav wrote:
Not really, he meant that Religion can be used to manipulate people.

No he wasn't, lol, read Marx.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

I think they might be referring to the view of religion as false consciousness, which seems to be a fairly accurate interpretation of Marx.
"But human dreams, when they represent the permanent enlightened interests of many, many human beings, never die. They have a way, sooner or later, of coming back, of being reborn, Phoenix-like, from the ash-heap of history; and if their basic idea is cogent enough, and the human interests they represent are powerful enough, they can never be regarded as finally killed or discredited. Those who think of the idea of socialism as finally discredited must see no significant human interests in its favor, no persisting basis for its appeal. Such blindness as that can only be willful."
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Satuga
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Postby Satuga » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:37 am

Hakons wrote:
What if I don't want you to teach secular morality to my children? Is that a similar situation? Why do you single out religious belief, when society imposes morality on every child? Further, why is it wrong to teach good morality. Would it be analogous to child rape if a child was taught that murder is wrong?

Did I say atheists could do it? No i didn't. Also you can teach good morality without religion, its not a religious exclusive thing you know.
Alt-Acc: Kronotek.
Funny quotes:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I don’t like democracy. It’s messy, disorderly, unclean.

I much prefer uniforms, soldiers, clear lines of authority, order.
Tarsonis wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Can the pair of you go do it in one of the myriad American politics threads?

(Image)


So help me I will throw your tea into the harbor again

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

Antityranicals wrote:
Geneviev wrote:That's not necessarily accurate. Although atheism hasn't made the world a better place, it has been incredibly beneficial to individual people.

Whom, exactly, has atheism benefitted?

Yo
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That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

Duvniask wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:No he wasn't, lol, read Marx.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

I think they might be referring to the view of religion as false consciousness, which seems to be a fairly accurate interpretation of Marx.

Then they're misphrasing it badly.
Christian Anarcho-Monarchist. If you're confused about how that works, send me a TG and I'll explain it. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
"We were the Leopards, the Lions, those who'll take our place will be little jackals, hyenas; and the whole lot of us, Leopards, jackals, and sheep, we'll all go on thinking ourselves the salt of the earth."
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Panslav
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Postby Panslav » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

Hakons wrote:
Satuga wrote:It's not literal child rape it's still an analogy about not preaching your religion to everyone and anyone.


What if I don't want you to teach secular morality to my children? Is that a similar situation? Why do you single out religious belief, when society imposes morality on every child? Further, why is it wrong to teach good morality. Would it be analogous to child rape if a child was taught that murder is wrong?


Religion preaches about things that probably don't exist, atheism doesn't. Religion is a postive claim, atheism (as a whole) isn't. Religion wastes your time on useless things like prayer, atheism doesn't.
Russian Socialist, Materialist Atheist, Fellow Gamer

Political compass results:
Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97
8Values results:
Economic Axis: 83.3% Equality (Socialist)
Diplomatic Axis: 78.9% Internationalism (Internationalist)
Civil Axis: 80.2% Liberty (Libertarian)
Societal Axis: 95.1% Progress (Revolutionary)

Total: Libertarian Socialism

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Satuga
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Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Satuga » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

Antityranicals wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, Atheism is a meritless delusion which defies all sense and restricts the mind, plain and simple. There is an argument to be made that deism made the world a better place, but Atheism has dulled the minds of generations, and must be fought and killed on the intellectual battlefield.

Lmao sure dude.
Alt-Acc: Kronotek.
Funny quotes:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I don’t like democracy. It’s messy, disorderly, unclean.

I much prefer uniforms, soldiers, clear lines of authority, order.
Tarsonis wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Can the pair of you go do it in one of the myriad American politics threads?

(Image)


So help me I will throw your tea into the harbor again

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Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

Antityranicals wrote:
Geneviev wrote:That's not necessarily accurate. Although atheism hasn't made the world a better place, it has been incredibly beneficial to individual people.

Whom, exactly, has atheism benefitted?


Me? I was a totally miserable sod when I dabbled in belief.

Also when should I point out that the list of the least religious places on Earth overlaps pretty well with the list of the most prosperous, equal and cohesive societies on Earth?
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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