Why the us should cut useless courses from college degrees.

[Diopolis]

Requiring 4 years of college for firefighting? Please.
California uses convicted criminals as slave labor to put out their forest fires. It ain't rocket science if they're given effective equipment.

What crimes?
Isn’t using involuntary manslaughter or misdemeanour intimidation convicts for that against the 8th amendment?

Arguably, but the fourteenth amendment allows any convicted criminal to be enslaved.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Requiring 4 years of college for firefighting? Please.
California uses convicted criminals as slave labor to put out their forest fires. It ain't rocket science if they're given effective equipment.

If you could be arsed to check the facts, you'd discover that:

All inmates receive the same entry-level training that CAL FIRE’s seasonal firefighters receive in addition to ongoing training from CAL FIRE throughout the time they are in the program.

Also, it's not slave labor: they're actively reducing their sentences by serving in these roles. California ain't Mississippi.

[Saranidia]

Also, it's not slave labor: they're actively reducing their sentences by serving in these roles. California ain't Mississippi.

That’s good, redemption.

[Luminesa]

I don’t know where you are, but here in California, you need…I believe it’s 2 years of Art (one performance, one visual) to graduate high school.

You needed to take art classes in Texas as well. I love science and I'm a premed, but I really don't understand people who profess to despise art. I enjoyed those classes a lot. But I think I've always had some motivation to be well-rounded. Hence all the extracurriculars.

Extracurriculars are fun. I wish I could have taken more art classes in college, too. I think one day I’ll go for a theology degree and take a bunch of art classes on the side. That was my original intention, before going for education.

[Imperial Joseon]

You needed to take art classes in Texas as well. I love science and I'm a premed, but I really don't understand people who profess to despise art. I enjoyed those classes a lot. But I think I've always had some motivation to be well-rounded. Hence all the extracurriculars.

Extracurriculars are fun. I wish I could have taken more art classes in college, too. I think one day I’ll go for a theology degree and take a bunch of art classes on the side. That was my original intention, before going for education.

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

[Katganistan]

Requiring 4 years of college for firefighting? Please.
California uses convicted criminals as slave labor to put out their forest fires. It ain't rocket science if they're given effective equipment.

Because all fires are exactly the same. A forest fire, with pine tar, is the same as a chemical plant going up with god knows what, and the same as a 100 floor office building, campfire, and coal mine.

You heard it here first.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Requiring 4 years of college for firefighting? Please.
California uses convicted criminals as slave labor to put out their forest fires. It ain't rocket science if they're given effective equipment.

As established they are not slave labour furthermore they receive training.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Extracurriculars are fun. I wish I could have taken more art classes in college, too. I think one day I’ll go for a theology degree and take a bunch of art classes on the side. That was my original intention, before going for education.

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

Because the only motive for anything is money.

Btw I know people need money I am just saying there are other motivators to human behaviour,

[Imperial Joseon]

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

Because the only motive for anything is money.

Btw I know people need money I am just saying there are other motivators to human behaviour,

Yeah, but the trend nowadays is that art won't earn you enough even for a living.

[Jebslund]

Because the only motive for anything is money.

Btw I know people need money I am just saying there are other motivators to human behaviour,

Yeah, but the trend nowadays is that art won't earn you enough even for a living.

Yeah. Graphic designers, ad people, magazine people, concept artists, and animators totally don't make a living...

[Imperial Joseon]

Yeah, but the trend nowadays is that art won't earn you enough even for a living.

Yeah. Graphic designers, ad people, magazine people, concept artists, and animators totally don't make a living...

With art degree alone, you can't. Those people have licenses.

[Salandriagado]

Yeah, I'd rather have someone who at least knows enough chemistry not to use water on a greasefire...

And can put out fires without spreading oxygen and generally understands how fires spread.
I think high school diploma/GED/Baccalaureate/5 GCSEs should be required plus firefighter training.

College should not be required in my opinion since it’s a very practical, manual skill like being a good carpenter, electrician or plumber.

When a local chemical plant went up, I was very happy that the firefighters involved knew which canisters of chemicals needed to be kept cool at all costs, thanks.

[Salandriagado]

Yeah. Graphic designers, ad people, magazine people, concept artists, and animators totally don't make a living...

With art degree alone, you can't. Those people have licenses.

No they fucking don't.

[Domina Nostra Nova Terra]

There's often a lot of talk about how to improve the education system in the US. Personally, there's one simple idea we can start with. Stop forcing classes on students that have nothing to do with their chosen field of study, or have little real world application like art or humanities. Not only would it save them time and money, but high schools could replace them with more useful subjects, such as teaching students how to file taxes. What say you NSG?

So history and english etc just dont' matter?

[Fahran]

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

I've met doctors who had undergraduate degrees in the arts and lawyers who studied philosophy, classics, or sociology. I've met successful entrepreneuers who specialize in graphic design and have done quite well for themselves. I don't think the people asserting that the arts are useless understand education or the current labor market.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

I've met doctors who had undergraduate degrees in the arts and lawyers who studied philosophy, classics, or sociology. I've met successful entrepreneuers who specialize in graphic design and have done quite well for themselves. I don't think the people asserting that the arts are useless understand education or the current labor market.

People forget that Philosophy undergrads have one of the highest average salaries in the country because of how versatile their degree is in graduate or law programs.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Art classes do help with getting high-salary jobs.

I've met doctors who had undergraduate degrees in the arts and lawyers who studied philosophy, classics, or sociology. I've met successful entrepreneuers who specialize in graphic design and have done quite well for themselves. I don't think the people asserting that the arts are useless understand education or the current labor market.

They don’t understand education or the current labor market. They don’t understand how important versatility is for a professional. In that you are correct.

[Korwin]

OK, to be serious for a second ...

Why is this a discussion now?

Why are so many people clamoring now for colleges to close certain courses that promote things that they don't agree with?

Y'all do realize that gender studies courses, liberal arts departments, philosophy departments, and sociological studies departments have been offered and have existed in Western universities for quite literally centuries now, right? Hell, there are centuries-old schools dedicated to art, philosophy, theology, and sociology. These institutions were around before Tumblr, Anita Sarkeesian, and even your great-great-great-great grandfather.

What has changed now compared to, say, 100 years ago?

I should warn y'all who are all gung-ho about this that the only other times in human history were there is a significant push to abolish progressive social thought in universities, and abolish liberal arts programs is when a nation is slipping down into autocracy and authoritarianism, were absolutists wish to push progressives out, or when a dictator already in power wishes to consolidate his iron fist even harder on educational institutions. This same discussion was going on in Germany before and during Hitler's rise to power.

[[Yes, I realize that gender studies hasn't been around for over a century, and I'm sure you're going to call me out for the Ad Hitlerum comment, but it is true. I also recognize and agree that there are biases that occur in college campuses that go too far, but social media blows them out of proportion. Also, people lie. I also agree that there are certain departments and degrees that are--in practicality--useless, but that doesn't mean that they should be abolished, or that people interested in them should be barred from learning about them, and that also doesn't mean that there is no real-world application for them.]]

[Jebslund]

Yeah. Graphic designers, ad people, magazine people, concept artists, and animators totally don't make a living...

With art degree alone, you can't. Those people have licenses.

"Driving school is useless, because a driving school alone won't get you your driver's license!"

Besides the fact that that license thing (beyond maybe needing licenses to own/operate tv stations or make movies) is bullshit, your argument is asinine. An art degree gives you the foundational skills to get those jobs. It's like telling a lawyer there's no money in going to law school because he needs a license to practice law, or a doctor that med school won't earn him enough to make a living because he needs a medical license to practice medicine.

[Neu California]

What crimes?
Isn’t using involuntary manslaughter or misdemeanour intimidation convicts for that against the 8th amendment?

Arguably, but the fourteenth amendment allows any convicted criminal to be enslaved.

Thirteenth amendment

[Diopolis]

OK, to be serious for a second ...

Why is this a discussion now?

Why are so many people clamoring now for colleges to close certain courses that promote things that they don't agree with?

Y'all do realize that gender studies courses, liberal arts departments, philosophy departments, and sociological studies departments have been offered and have existed in Western universities for quite literally centuries now, right? Hell, there are centuries-old schools dedicated to art, philosophy, theology, and sociology. These institutions were around before Tumblr, Anita Sarkeesian, and even your great-great-great-great grandfather.

What has changed now compared to, say, 100 years ago?

I should warn y'all who are all gung-ho about this that the only other times in human history were there is a significant push to abolish progressive social thought in universities, and abolish liberal arts programs is when a nation is slipping down into autocracy and authoritarianism, were absolutists wish to push progressives out, or when a dictator already in power wishes to consolidate his iron fist even harder on educational institutions. This same discussion was going on in Germany before and during Hitler's rise to power.

[[Yes, I realize that gender studies hasn't been around for over a century, and I'm sure you're going to call me out for the Ad Hitlerum comment, but it is true. I also recognize and agree that there are biases that occur in college campuses that go too far, but social media blows them out of proportion. Also, people lie. I also agree that there are certain departments and degrees that are--in practicality--useless, but that doesn't mean that they should be abolished, or that people interested in them should be barred from learning about them, and that also doesn't mean that there is no real-world application for them.]]

People are gung ho about free college now. That's probably why other people are all up in arms about useless degrees.

[Totenborg]

OK, to be serious for a second ...

Why is this a discussion now?

Why are so many people clamoring now for colleges to close certain courses that promote things that they don't agree with?

Y'all do realize that gender studies courses, liberal arts departments, philosophy departments, and sociological studies departments have been offered and have existed in Western universities for quite literally centuries now, right? Hell, there are centuries-old schools dedicated to art, philosophy, theology, and sociology. These institutions were around before Tumblr, Anita Sarkeesian, and even your great-great-great-great grandfather.

What has changed now compared to, say, 100 years ago?

I should warn y'all who are all gung-ho about this that the only other times in human history were there is a significant push to abolish progressive social thought in universities, and abolish liberal arts programs is when a nation is slipping down into autocracy and authoritarianism, were absolutists wish to push progressives out, or when a dictator already in power wishes to consolidate his iron fist even harder on educational institutions. This same discussion was going on in Germany before and during Hitler's rise to power.

[[Yes, I realize that gender studies hasn't been around for over a century, and I'm sure you're going to call me out for the Ad Hitlerum comment, but it is true. I also recognize and agree that there are biases that occur in college campuses that go too far, but social media blows them out of proportion. Also, people lie. I also agree that there are certain departments and degrees that are--in practicality--useless, but that doesn't mean that they should be abolished, or that people interested in them should be barred from learning about them, and that also doesn't mean that there is no real-world application for them.]]

Well, you're not wrong.

[The Republic of Fore]

I don't care whether you want to advance humanities understanding of itself. You can waste your own money on such nonsense. You wanting to do something is not my problem, or my responsibility.

It becomes your problem and your responsibility every time you choose to continue to live in a society.

I didn't choose to, I was forced. And even then, no it isn't. There's no law that says what happens to you is my problem. I don't care about an imaginary social contract.

[The Republic of Fore]

With art degree alone, you can't. Those people have licenses.

"Driving school is useless, because a driving school alone won't get you your driver's license!"

Besides the fact that that license thing (beyond maybe needing licenses to own/operate tv stations or make movies) is bullshit, your argument is asinine. An art degree gives you the foundational skills to get those jobs. It's like telling a lawyer there's no money in going to law school because he needs a license to practice law, or a doctor that med school won't earn him enough to make a living because he needs a medical license to practice medicine.

All of those people don't make that much though. Especially animators, who are losing their jobs to Korean sweatshops. Can't compare them to doctors and lawyers.

[The Republic of Fore]

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

"Why does it matter so much to you what other people do?"

If you're not even going to bother to actually use your comprehension skills to read what's being said here to continue bitching you don't NEED it, so NO ONE SHOULD HAVE IT you're actually making my argument easier.

Go. To. A. School. That. Does. Not. Require. A. Core. Curriculum.
But don't sit here whining that the GOOD schools (aka schools you think will magically make you eligible for a six figure job) require you to take 'useless' courses.

There is a REASON those schools are held up as exemplary.

Why don't you try working on the reading comprehension you're so happy to lecture me about? I've never once said no one should have it. If you bothered to read my posts you could see that I've repeatedly said THEY SHOULD BE OPTIONAL! Is that too difficult of a concept for people here? Classes don't have to be effing mandatory to exist! Jesus Christ people. Stop. Forcing. Students. To. Study. Useless. Crap. There's no reason that any school good or not should require classes that a student doesn't need. If you want to study classes you don't need, then choose them yourself! Or, make them mandatory for relevant majors. Wow, what a concept.