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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
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Postby Novus America » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:33 am

Because the Tories are not remotely Fascist, the idea of Tory Fascism is silly.
Sure Tories suck. Sure some have an authoritarian streak. Back they lack the other hallmarks of Fascism such as extreme militarism, heavy government spending on infrastructure, the military and public services, especially for families with children, third position economics combining market economics and state intervention, protectionism and self sufficiency, imperialism/revanchism/irredentist, banning opposition parties, etc.

Actually with the exception of the last two, more Fascist might an improvement :o
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:33 am

Celritannia wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
I'm glad that you are conceding the point, but it could do with a little less of the criticising people for assuming that your meaning was what your words said rather than something that they did not say.


Yet, on the other hand, people should not put too much thought into the word on a forum about politics.


Far from being pedantic, it's general practice in this world so sorely lacking in telepathy to debate the words that people say rather than those that they claim after the event to have secretly been thinking all along. Is conceding a single minor point really this difficult? I'm hardly an open-minded sort, and yet even I managed to admit I fucked up on the biggest political issue of our era. Misusing the word fascist is hardly an action of great consequence, or some terrible shame that will hang over you. Simply move on and don't repeat the mistake, it's no great shakes to admit it.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:39 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:42 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Yet, on the other hand, people should not put too much thought into the word on a forum about politics.


Far from being pedantic, it's general practice in this world so sorely lacking in telepathy to debate the words that people say rather than those that they claim after the event to have secretly been thinking all along. Is conceding a single minor point really this difficult? I'm hardly an open-minded sort, and yet even I managed to admit I fucked up on the biggest political issue of our era. Misusing the word fascist is hardly an action of great consequence, or some terrible shame that will hang over you. Simply move on and don't repeat the mistake, it's no great shakes to admit it.


It's the word I found that best fit to get the attention it deserved, so it's done the trick.

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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:49 am

Novus America wrote:Because the Tories are not remotely Fascist, the idea of Tory Fascism is silly.
Sure Tories suck. Sure some have an authoritarian streak. Back they lack the other hallmarks of Fascism such as extreme militarism, heavy government spending on infrastructure, the military and public services, especially for families with children, third position economics combining market economics and state intervention, protectionism and self sufficiency, imperialism/revanchism/irredentist, banning opposition parties, etc.

Actually with the exception of the last two, more Fascist might an improvement :o


the tories are weird because they definitely want all of that stuff and talk it up publicly but they just cba paying for it
Last edited by Souseiseki on Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:52 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Novus America wrote:Because the Tories are not remotely Fascist, the idea of Tory Fascism is silly.
Sure Tories suck. Sure some have an authoritarian streak. Back they lack the other hallmarks of Fascism such as extreme militarism, heavy government spending on infrastructure, the military and public services, especially for families with children, third position economics combining market economics and state intervention, protectionism and self sufficiency, imperialism/revanchism/irredentist, banning opposition parties, etc.

Actually with the exception of the last two, more Fascist might an improvement :o


the tories are weird because they definitely want all of that stuff and talk it up publicly but they just cba paying for it

Congrats(?) to the Tories on being too shit to do a fascism.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:12 am

Celritannia wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Far from being pedantic, it's general practice in this world so sorely lacking in telepathy to debate the words that people say rather than those that they claim after the event to have secretly been thinking all along. Is conceding a single minor point really this difficult? I'm hardly an open-minded sort, and yet even I managed to admit I fucked up on the biggest political issue of our era. Misusing the word fascist is hardly an action of great consequence, or some terrible shame that will hang over you. Simply move on and don't repeat the mistake, it's no great shakes to admit it.


It's the word I found that best fit to get the attention it deserved, so it's done the trick.


And lo, it transpired that the whole "blunder" and our hero's defence of it thereafter were but a cunning plan-scheme to ensure proper attention for the most pressing issue facing the Kingdom. The people not only accepted this entirely plausible resolution to the plot, but also noted that the endeavour was most assuredly successful despite the conversation never progressing to the point our hero was secretly making, what with everyone quite reasonably focusing instead on the most peculiar in what our hero actually said. That fine eve there was much merriment and rejoicing, and representatives from Space FIDE did teleport in to award the title of Grandmaster to our hero for this bamboozling triumph of 4D chess stable genius.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time.

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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:02 am

Ifreann wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
the tories are weird because they definitely want all of that stuff and talk it up publicly but they just cba paying for it

Congrats(?) to the Tories on being too shit to do a fascism.


it's actually one of the cool things about living in the UK because you have insane unaccountable morality police state but they also have no money so they can't actually do shit except search twitter for N and send the vans out

of course this also means that if labour get in and actually try fund it then we're fucked, but until then yaaaaay?
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... _clipboard

“There is no guarantee that the trend will continue but what we do need to understand is that it is being driven by Brexit,” Curtis said. “[The] difficulty for the unionist position is that they say ‘we don’t think that the people of Scotland have the right to change their minds’.

“That won’t be sustainable if the trends we’re talking about go on much longer.”


nothing really new but it's nice to have a polling guy come out behind the idea that yes it's a brexit thing
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:29 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Congrats(?) to the Tories on being too shit to do a fascism.


it's actually one of the cool things about living in the UK because you have insane unaccountable morality police state but they also have no money so they can't actually do shit except search twitter for N and send the vans out

of course this also means that if labour get in and actually try fund it then we're fucked, but until then yaaaaay?

Yaaaaaay? indeed.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:23 am

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:14 am



Umm the article does not say that though. Besides the fact this happened while the UK was still in the EU (the numbers are from last year) it also states this is not a new problem but one that has been going on decades.

Nowhere does it say leaving the EU has anything to do with it.

Much of the UK still has Victorian era combined sewers that are in poor condition due to growing population and lack of investment in upkeep and improvements.
Yes the UK’s infrastructure has issues, but that was a problem that has been going on while the UK was in the EU.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:16 am

Novus America wrote:


Umm the article does not say that though. Besides the fact this happened while the UK was still in the EU (the numbers are from last year) it also states this is not a new problem but one that has been going on decades.

Nowhere does it say leaving the EU has anything to do with it.

Im not subscribing in order to read it, but it honestly would not surprise me that Vass is spinning a web of lies like comrade Dyatlov to imply something that doesnt exist.


Because she has never done that before
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:18 am

Souseiseki wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/04/scottish-independence-survey-shows-brexit-has-put-union-at-risk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

“There is no guarantee that the trend will continue but what we do need to understand is that it is being driven by Brexit,” Curtis said. “[The] difficulty for the unionist position is that they say ‘we don’t think that the people of Scotland have the right to change their minds’.

“That won’t be sustainable if the trends we’re talking about go on much longer.”


nothing really new but it's nice to have a polling guy come out behind the idea that yes it's a brexit thing

Doesnt surprise me in the slightest. Now whether or not the Scots will actually go for it is another thing
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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:19 am

Novus America wrote:


Umm the article does not say that though. Besides the fact this happened while the UK was still in the EU (the numbers are from last year) it also states this is not a new problem but one that has been going on decades.

Nowhere does it say leaving the EU has anything to do with it.

Much of the UK still has Victorian era combined sewers that are in poor condition due to growing population and lack of investment in upkeep and improvements.
Yes the UK’s infrastructure has issues, but that was a problem that has been going on while the UK was in the EU.

And, of course, the UK is still bound by EU law until 2021.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:25 am

Novus America wrote:


Umm the article does not say that though. Besides the fact this happened while the UK was still in the EU (the numbers are from last year) it also states this is not a new problem but one that has been going on decades.

Nowhere does it say leaving the EU has anything to do with it.

Much of the UK still has Victorian era combined sewers that are in poor condition due to growing population and lack of investment in upkeep and improvements.
Yes the UK’s infrastructure has issues, but that was a problem that has been going on while the UK was in the EU.

Many trains in the UK still have toilets ("hopper toilets") that flush straight onto the tracks, hence the toilet paper and shit that can be spotted on the tracks at train stations. There are usually signs in the toilets telling people not to flush in stations, but clearly they do.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:53 am

Ifreann wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
it's actually one of the cool things about living in the UK because you have insane unaccountable morality police state but they also have no money so they can't actually do shit except search twitter for N and send the vans out

of course this also means that if labour get in and actually try fund it then we're fucked, but until then yaaaaay?

Yaaaaaay? indeed.

And have a van that can tell if you have an unlicensed TV
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Novus America
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Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:08 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Umm the article does not say that though. Besides the fact this happened while the UK was still in the EU (the numbers are from last year) it also states this is not a new problem but one that has been going on decades.

Nowhere does it say leaving the EU has anything to do with it.

Much of the UK still has Victorian era combined sewers that are in poor condition due to growing population and lack of investment in upkeep and improvements.
Yes the UK’s infrastructure has issues, but that was a problem that has been going on while the UK was in the EU.

Many trains in the UK still have toilets ("hopper toilets") that flush straight onto the tracks, hence the toilet paper and shit that can be spotted on the tracks at train stations. There are usually signs in the toilets telling people not to flush in stations, but clearly they do.


That is interesting (but pretty gross). Even in the US where our trains are not exactly the best I do not believe we have used such toilets for a long time. Never seen one, or the waste that goes along with it besides maybe in a museum.

Every train I have been in here has the airplane type ones.

Apparently we switched fully to holding tanks by 1990 and even before that had systems that disabled them in the station.

Surprised the UK is 30 years behind the US.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:23 am

Novus America wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Many trains in the UK still have toilets ("hopper toilets") that flush straight onto the tracks, hence the toilet paper and shit that can be spotted on the tracks at train stations. There are usually signs in the toilets telling people not to flush in stations, but clearly they do.


That is interesting (but pretty gross). Even in the US where our trains are not exactly the best I do not believe we have used such toilets for a long time. Never seen one, or the waste that goes along with it besides maybe in a museum.

Every train I have been in here has the airplane type ones.

Apparently we switched fully to holding tanks by 1990 and even before that had systems that disabled them in the station.

Surprised the UK is 30 years behind the US.

They have been saying for years that they are going to stop it, but here we are. While it's unpleasant for people stood on the station platforms, it's the railway line maintenance workers who need to deal with that literal shit every day.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:28 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Novus America wrote:
That is interesting (but pretty gross). Even in the US where our trains are not exactly the best I do not believe we have used such toilets for a long time. Never seen one, or the waste that goes along with it besides maybe in a museum.

Every train I have been in here has the airplane type ones.

Apparently we switched fully to holding tanks by 1990 and even before that had systems that disabled them in the station.

Surprised the UK is 30 years behind the US.

They have been saying for years that they are going to stop it, but here we are. While it's unpleasant for people stood on the station platforms, it's the railway line maintenance workers who need to deal with that literal shit every day.


Jeez that's disgusting
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:08 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:They have been saying for years that they are going to stop it, but here we are. While it's unpleasant for people stood on the station platforms, it's the railway line maintenance workers who need to deal with that literal shit every day.


Jeez that's disgusting


One of many, many, many reasons we need to nationalise the railways.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Teachian
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Postby Teachian » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:12 am

Chan Island wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Jeez that's disgusting


One of many, many, many reasons we need to nationalise the railways.


Nationalise the rail-poop industry.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:12 am

Chan Island wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Jeez that's disgusting


One of many, many, many reasons we need to nationalise the railways.

British Rail rolling stock had the same toilets. I remember them.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:15 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
One of many, many, many reasons we need to nationalise the railways.

British Rail rolling stock had the same toilets. I remember them.


Back in the 1970s.

I think most trains have modernised a bit since then.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:18 am

Chan Island wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:British Rail rolling stock had the same toilets. I remember them.


Back in the 1970s.

I think most trains have modernised a bit since then.

No. I remember British Rail trains in the early and mid nineties had them as well...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Samadhi
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Posts: 1562
Founded: Sep 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Samadhi » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:24 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
Back in the 1970s.

I think most trains have modernised a bit since then.

No. I remember British Rail trains in the early and mid nineties had them as well...


Ooh ooh I know This one. Britain started upgrading their trains in 2019 to holding tanks.

Mostly everywhere else uses the on tracks method.

And most Australian trains need to reach a certain speed before they will dump on tracks. Because they only do that speed away from stations.
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It's all slavery baby.
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