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Turkish military offensive in Syria/Rojava

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which side you're sympathic towards?

Turkey
48
13%
Rojava/SDF
243
63%
Neither or unsure
92
24%
 
Total votes : 383

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The Alma Mater
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:25 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The Glorious Turkish Army Is Combating Terrorism.

What a cretinous analogy. Helping ISIS and destroying the only hope of true democracy in Syria and the end of tyranny is not 'combatting terrorism'. It is quite the opposite, it is terrorism. Erdogan is a terrorist and neo-ottomanism is a fundamentally terroristic ideology.


Considering Erdogan has long been rumoured to be the founder, chief financier and main supplier of ISIS this really should not surprise anyone.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:26 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:I disagree with a lot of what you said, but you are right about one thing, Rojava is far from being a good state. It’s continued support of terrorism, persecution of Arabs, and horrible human rights record often goes ignored by the far left which holds it up as the poster child of successful communism (this really says more about the far-left than Rojava imo)

So many claims, but no sauce to go with it.

Are you not aware of Rojava’s treatment of its native Arabs? Or PKK terrorism in Turkey?
Last edited by Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:29 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:So many claims, but no sauce to go with it.

Are you not aware one Rojava’s treatment of its native Arabs? Or PKK terrorism in Turkey?

Rojava and PKK are seperate things.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:31 am

Hmmm:

Despite the tightened border, Kurds from Turkey remain well represented in the YPG, further underscoring the group’s links to the PKK. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Kurdish fighter Zind Ruken expanded on the PKK-YPG relationship. “Sometimes I’m a PKK, sometimes I’m a PJAK [the PKK-allied affiliate, active in Iran], sometimes I’m a YPG. It doesn’t really matter. They are all members of the PKK.”

The YPG’s casualty data confirms linkages between international PKK-linked groups. Kurds from Turkey total 49.24 percent of the YPG’s self-reported casualties between January 2013 and January 2016, according to an ongoing Atlantic Council study. YPG martyrdom notices show that 359 Turkish citizens, 323 Syrians, 32 Iranians, seven Iraqis, two Australians, two Azeris, and a person from England, Germany, Greece, and the United States each have been killed fighting with the group since January 2013. To be sure, there are methodological problems with the data: The two authors relied on self-reported numbers and have not been able to cross-reference this information with the PYD.


Sauce: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/m ... onnection/
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:32 am

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Nobody wants neo-ottomanism, all we want is peace and security of the region.Assad and Turkey should sit at the table for peace

Most of the people living in that Rojave territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.
You should see that Ypg and Pkk terrorists do not represent the Kurds in the region.I don't think it's a dream
Image
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:32 am

Seems like the Turks are making good headway.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:33 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Most of the people living in that Rojave territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.
You should see that Ypg and Pkk terrorists do not represent the Kurds in the region.

Says the propagandaist for the wannabe sultan
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:33 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:So many claims, but no sauce to go with it.

Are you not aware one Rojava’s treatment of its native Arabs? Or PKK terrorism in Turkey?

PKK terrorism in Turkey is a rather distinct issue from Rojava's policy in Syria.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:34 am

Nakena wrote:Hmmm:

Despite the tightened border, Kurds from Turkey remain well represented in the YPG, further underscoring the group’s links to the PKK. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Kurdish fighter Zind Ruken expanded on the PKK-YPG relationship. “Sometimes I’m a PKK, sometimes I’m a PJAK [the PKK-allied affiliate, active in Iran], sometimes I’m a YPG. It doesn’t really matter. They are all members of the PKK.”

The YPG’s casualty data confirms linkages between international PKK-linked groups. Kurds from Turkey total 49.24 percent of the YPG’s self-reported casualties between January 2013 and January 2016, according to an ongoing Atlantic Council study. YPG martyrdom notices show that 359 Turkish citizens, 323 Syrians, 32 Iranians, seven Iraqis, two Australians, two Azeris, and a person from England, Germany, Greece, and the United States each have been killed fighting with the group since January 2013. To be sure, there are methodological problems with the data: The two authors relied on self-reported numbers and have not been able to cross-reference this information with the PYD.


Sauce: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/m ... onnection/

Yeah, I always hate how people pretend Turkey has no legitimate grievances about the YPG.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:34 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Are you not aware one Rojava’s treatment of its native Arabs? Or PKK terrorism in Turkey?

Rojava and PKK are seperate things.

Rojava more often than not funds PKK’s operations
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Vistulange
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vistulange » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:36 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Kurds get fucked over once again and im sure we will be hearing all about a bunch of war crimes in the next few months with the Turks fucking slaughtering them.

I wasn't aware I was doing any slaughtering, Huskar. Are you sure you don't mean Turkey, the country?

Heloin wrote:Most of the people living in that Rojava territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.


A relatively recent paper - 2016-ish - by Zeki Sarıgil and Ekrem Karakoç states that only about 32% of Kurds in Turkey supported secession in 2013, prior to the Peace Process.

If you like, I can relay any questions you have to Sarıgil in person.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:37 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:Rojava and PKK are seperate things.

Rojava more often than not funds PKK’s operations

The blog post there doesn't make that claim though.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:38 am

Vistulange wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Kurds get fucked over once again and im sure we will be hearing all about a bunch of war crimes in the next few months with the Turks fucking slaughtering them.

I wasn't aware I was doing any slaughtering, Huskar. Are you sure you don't mean Turkey, the country?

Heloin wrote:Most of the people living in that Rojava territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.


A relatively recent paper - 2016-ish - by Zeki Sarıgil and Ekrem Karakoç states that only about 32% of Kurds in Turkey supported secession in 2013, prior to the Peace Process.

If you like, I can relay any questions you have to Sarıgil in person.

I did mean the country of Turkey, same way in the MAGA thread when i made a comment about the Americans shafting the kurds again i was referring to the United States of America.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:39 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:Most of the people living in that Rojave territory of this imaginary Turkmeneli are Kurds and want nothing to do with Turkey. The same thing is true on the other side of the border actually.
You should see that Ypg and Pkk terrorists do not represent the Kurds in the region.

You can tell this because the PKK are extremely unpopular with local Kurds, oh wait.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Yeah, I always hate how people pretend Turkey has no legitimate grievances about the YPG.

Turkey has legitimate grievances. Nearly all of those grievances happened because of their treatment of Kurdish people in Turkey however.
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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:39 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vistulange wrote:I wasn't aware I was doing any slaughtering, Huskar. Are you sure you don't mean Turkey, the country?



A relatively recent paper - 2016-ish - by Zeki Sarıgil and Ekrem Karakoç states that only about 32% of Kurds in Turkey supported secession in 2013, prior to the Peace Process.

If you like, I can relay any questions you have to Sarıgil in person.

I did mean the country of Turkey, same way in the MAGA thread when i made a comment about the Americans shafting the kurds again i was referring to the United States of America.

Right.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:39 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Seems like the Turks are making good headway.

Towards the fight against terrorists, but the management is wrong.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:41 am

Vistulange wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:I did mean the country of Turkey, same way in the MAGA thread when i made a comment about the Americans shafting the kurds again i was referring to the United States of America.

Right.

Im not saying every turk is gona go out an kill someone or that every turk would be responsible, if you read it that way im sorry not my intention.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:41 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Seems like the Turks are making good headway.

Towards the fight against terrorists, but the management is wrong.
Image

Will you stop with the pics.
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"They fight bravely. They cannot harm our ships but they continue to try"
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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vistulange wrote:Right.

Im not saying every turk is gona go out an kill someone or that every turk would be responsible, if you read it that way im sorry not my intention.

It is, however, precisely the meaning behind the sentence you formed, whatever your intention is. It is ironically the exact same idea as equating "Kurd" with "PKK" that happens all too often in Turkey. Framing is quite important, as this entire fifty-year old tragedy is showing to us.

Heloin wrote:You can tell this because the PKK are extremely unpopular with local Kurds, oh wait.


Extremely unpopular, no. Overly popular?

Not really. Sarıgil and Karakoç (2019) demonstrate that in 2013, 44.6% of Kurds answered "yes" to the survey question of whether they supported the PKK or not, and interestingly enough, they establish a causal relation between this and peace, not violence.

Citation: https://doi.org/10.1017/S1755048319000312
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:48 am

Vistulange wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Im not saying every turk is gona go out an kill someone or that every turk would be responsible, if you read it that way im sorry not my intention.

It is, however, precisely the meaning behind the sentence you formed, whatever your intention is. It is ironically the exact same idea as equating "Kurd" with "PKK" that happens all too often in Turkey. Framing is quite important, as this entire fifty-year old tragedy is showing to us.
Thats fair. Ill try and frame stuff better from now on if i post more in this thread.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"They fight bravely. They cannot harm our ships but they continue to try"
"Whether they fight or not they know the will die anyway, so really is this bravery or simple desperation?
"
Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
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Nea Byzantia
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Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:49 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Yeah, I always hate how people pretend Turkey has no legitimate grievances about the YPG.

Being a Greek, I'm not exactly a fan of Turkey; but that being said, even I will admit the Turks have legitimate grievances against the YPG.

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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:51 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Yeah, I always hate how people pretend Turkey has no legitimate grievances about the YPG.

Being a Greek, I'm not exactly a fan of Turkey; but that being said, even I will admit the Turks have legitimate grievances against the YPG.

Being Greek does not necessitate that you not be a fan of Turkey.
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The Rapture Republic
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Rapture Republic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:57 am

Meh. I'm happy troops are coming finally, wished all troops still stationed in the middle east would come home too. We have no right to be there in the first place. The only thing that can fix the region is the region, itself, regardless of what methods must be used to achieve stability without American interference.
Last edited by The Rapture Republic on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Nea Byzantia
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Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:59 am

Vistulange wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Being a Greek, I'm not exactly a fan of Turkey; but that being said, even I will admit the Turks have legitimate grievances against the YPG.

Being Greek does not necessitate that you not be a fan of Turkey.

Sure it does. Turkey used us, abused us, enslaved us, and tried to make us all Muslim and Turkish for 400 years (during the Ottoman times); then genocided us and kicked the Asia Minor Greeks out of their ancestral homelands (1913 - 1923). On top of it, Turkey has refused to acknowledge these historic abuses. Not only this, but Turkey is still pressing on our borders; and pressing on the borders of our brothers in Cyprus.

This doesn't mean I hate all individual Turks; I just have beef with Turkey.

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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:00 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Yeah, I always hate how people pretend Turkey has no legitimate grievances about the YPG.

Well I always hate how people pretend actions the PKK/YPG have commited against the Turks are always unjustified.
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