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Life after a Global Ecological Collapse

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Samudera Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2670
Founded: Aug 05, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby Samudera Darussalam » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Yeah we’re looking at not having enough fucking oxygen to breathe so


Press F for literally all of us

F
Embassy Link - This is closed for a while.

Indonesian Muslim

Chrinthanium wrote:Deep fried NSG gives me indigestion.

Neanderthaland wrote:
Kowani wrote:Your defense is found insufficient, and thus, are sentenced to a year’s hard labor, mining crystals for the communist wizards.

In Gulazkaban

Valentine Z wrote:
Geneviev wrote:0 matters! We need to respect its rights!

0 is perfect. Because nobody is perfect. :P

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Aureumterra
Senator
 
Posts: 4803
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Aureumterra » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:37 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Whoops that's bleak

To be fair, world of the future currently looks pretty bleak.

Really depends on the context, that statement, overall the world is roughly in a better situation right now than at any point in history

Surkiea II wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Not everyone who believes climate change thinks the world will end by 2030 or that the green new deal is the best way to solve everything, really not

Also calling Rojava a marxist :lol2:

Fucking lol. The people pushing this agenda ARE Marxists, it's part of their plan to attack capitalism, this is pretty evident on how much they attack corporations for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Of course I don't expect some far left socialist like you to understand.

I have to give it to you, you aren’t actually the first person to call me socialist here
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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 4514
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:37 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:To be fair, world of the future currently looks pretty bleak.

Yeah we’re looking at not having enough fucking oxygen to breathe so

I’d say we have to worry more about having enough clean water to drink and food to eat before we have to worry about that.
Last edited by The Greater Ohio Valley on Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.
PRO:
- Free speech
- Weapons rights
- LGBTQ+ rights
- Religious freedom
- Choice
- Gender/sexual equality
- Social democracy
- Racial equality
- Due process
- Voting rights
- Separation of Church and State
- Environmental protections
- Cannabis legalization
- Criminal rehabilitation
ANTI:
- Fascism/Nazism
- Conservatism
- Laissez-faire capitalism
- Racism
- Sexism
- Homophobia
- Transphobia
- Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism
- Anarchism
- Racial supremacy
- Jingoism
- Nationalism
- Religious extremism & fundamentalism
- Anti-intellectualism
- Climate change denial
- Antivaxx
- Traditionalism

Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Surkiea II
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Aug 27, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Surkiea II » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:38 pm

Samudera Darussalam wrote:
Surkiea II wrote:Fucking lol. The people pushing this agenda ARE Marxists, it's part of their plan to attack capitalism, this is pretty evident on how much they attack corporations for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Of course I don't expect some far left socialist like you to understand.

Aureumterra is now a far left socialist? That's funny.

No, they are not marxists.

Well considering how much he loves pushing left-wing agendas, yeah he is.

And they are Marxists.


Rojava Free State wrote:
Surkiea II wrote:Fucking lol. The people pushing this agenda ARE Marxists, it's part of their plan to attack capitalism, this is pretty evident on how much they attack corporations for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Of course I don't expect some far left socialist like you to understand.


This conspiracy theory has too many steps to be real. First off the democrats, the so called left party, are not anywhere near being marxists. They receive thousands of dollars a year in donations from wall street and support open immigration that benefits corporations. They're just as plutocrat controlled as the GOP. If there truly was an attack on corporate america, it would be put down immediately

Second off, not every one who disagrees with you is a damn commie. Many of us are libertarians which if anything makes us farther from stalin or mao than you are

Considering that they have actual communists like Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, AOC and Illhan Omar, the DNC are a bunch of far left radicals. And all they do is attack corporations and capitalism.

Stop acting like a damn commie and I won't call you one.

User avatar
Samudera Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2670
Founded: Aug 05, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby Samudera Darussalam » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:39 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Yeah we’re looking at not having enough fucking oxygen to breathe so

I’d say we have to worry more about having enough clean water to drink and food to before we have to worry about that.

Food, clean water, new spaces for habitations if the coastal areas are going underwater.....
Embassy Link - This is closed for a while.

Indonesian Muslim

Chrinthanium wrote:Deep fried NSG gives me indigestion.

Neanderthaland wrote:
Kowani wrote:Your defense is found insufficient, and thus, are sentenced to a year’s hard labor, mining crystals for the communist wizards.

In Gulazkaban

Valentine Z wrote:
Geneviev wrote:0 matters! We need to respect its rights!

0 is perfect. Because nobody is perfect. :P

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7841
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:39 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:To be fair, world of the future currently looks pretty bleak.

Really depends on the context, that statement, overall the world is roughly in a better situation right now than at any point in history

Surkiea II wrote:Fucking lol. The people pushing this agenda ARE Marxists, it's part of their plan to attack capitalism, this is pretty evident on how much they attack corporations for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Of course I don't expect some far left socialist like you to understand.

I have to give it to you, you aren’t actually the first person to call me socialist here


I couldn't disagree more with your first statement. I think we've had far better times in history than this current century, and while no time has been perfect and this period is better than most of history, not only is it worse now than even 20 years ago, but it's going back to how things used to be
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property, and sexy brown women

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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True Refuge
Minister
 
Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:40 pm

Surkiea II wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Aureumterra is now a far left socialist? That's funny.

No, they are not marxists.

Well considering how much he loves pushing left-wing agendas, yeah he is.

And they are Marxists.


Rojava Free State wrote:
This conspiracy theory has too many steps to be real. First off the democrats, the so called left party, are not anywhere near being marxists. They receive thousands of dollars a year in donations from wall street and support open immigration that benefits corporations. They're just as plutocrat controlled as the GOP. If there truly was an attack on corporate america, it would be put down immediately

Second off, not every one who disagrees with you is a damn commie. Many of us are libertarians which if anything makes us farther from stalin or mao than you are

Considering that they have actual communists like Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, AOC and Illhan Omar, the DNC are a bunch of far left radicals. And all they do is attack corporations and capitalism.

Stop acting like a damn commie and I won't call you one.


This is like Ben Shapiro calling Andrew Neil a leftie. Your sense of political ideology is wack.
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Australian pan-transhumanist supranationalist labour-unionist SocFem MensLib anti-geographic-nation-state cishet boi
The nuclear family is not sacred. I like the 'bash living arrangements in Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series.

"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few

User avatar
The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 4514
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:40 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:To be fair, world of the future currently looks pretty bleak.

Really depends on the context, that statement, overall the world is roughly in a better situation right now than at any point in history

Maybe right now, but things look to get progressively worse than things are now.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.
PRO:
- Free speech
- Weapons rights
- LGBTQ+ rights
- Religious freedom
- Choice
- Gender/sexual equality
- Social democracy
- Racial equality
- Due process
- Voting rights
- Separation of Church and State
- Environmental protections
- Cannabis legalization
- Criminal rehabilitation
ANTI:
- Fascism/Nazism
- Conservatism
- Laissez-faire capitalism
- Racism
- Sexism
- Homophobia
- Transphobia
- Authoritarianism/Totalitarianism
- Anarchism
- Racial supremacy
- Jingoism
- Nationalism
- Religious extremism & fundamentalism
- Anti-intellectualism
- Climate change denial
- Antivaxx
- Traditionalism

Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7841
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:42 pm

Surkiea II wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Aureumterra is now a far left socialist? That's funny.

No, they are not marxists.

Well considering how much he loves pushing left-wing agendas, yeah he is.

And they are Marxists.


Rojava Free State wrote:
This conspiracy theory has too many steps to be real. First off the democrats, the so called left party, are not anywhere near being marxists. They receive thousands of dollars a year in donations from wall street and support open immigration that benefits corporations. They're just as plutocrat controlled as the GOP. If there truly was an attack on corporate america, it would be put down immediately

Second off, not every one who disagrees with you is a damn commie. Many of us are libertarians which if anything makes us farther from stalin or mao than you are

Considering that they have actual communists like Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, AOC and Illhan Omar, the DNC are a bunch of far left radicals. And all they do is attack corporations and capitalism.

Stop acting like a damn commie and I won't call you one.


Calling any of those people communists is like calling ted Cruz a nazi. Nice way to jump the gun. Also they have next to no power in their party, so I don't even know why we talk about them

As for attacking corporations, I think the corporations have done plenty to demonize themselves these last few years (automation, outsourcing, using illegal immigrant labor, lobbying both parties to relax anti trust laws and give tax breaks). You're probably one of the last people on both the right and the left defending these greedy fat cat crooks who don't give a dead moose's last shit about the American people. That doesn't make me a communist. It makes me legitimately outraged.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property, and sexy brown women

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Half Lebanese, Half Puerto Rican. All american. Not Kurdish at all.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lilahdog567/

User avatar
True Refuge
Minister
 
Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:48 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:Really depends on the context, that statement, overall the world is roughly in a better situation right now than at any point in history

Maybe right now, but things look to get progressively worse than things are now.


Really depends on what metrics you look at.

Looks like we're doing good, but really it's just the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
Australian pan-transhumanist supranationalist labour-unionist SocFem MensLib anti-geographic-nation-state cishet boi
The nuclear family is not sacred. I like the 'bash living arrangements in Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series.

"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 740
Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:51 pm

Antityranicals wrote:Holy cow, mate, there is no scientific evidence for human-caused climate change! Such a thing is literally impossible, since we weren't collecting data before the late 1800s, so we have no reason to believe that any minor climate fluctuations aren't perfectly natural. In fact, we have quite a few reasons for believing that human-caused emissions have practically no effect on climate change. If we calculate every ounce of fossil fuels burned by humanity, (as accounted by "The Guardian," so there is no bias towards my stance, and likely substantial bias away from it) it would come out to about 1% of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. And even if we ignore that, it is a known scientific fact that greater concentrations of CO2 decrease its effectiveness as a greenhouse gas at an exponential rate. But of course, the government and the all-but-state-run media have a different agenda, so we don't hear any of this, and instead get this myth of scientific consensus and human-caused climate change as a definite fact. It really ticks me off that people think that the methods which have brought about the most spectacular advances in human civilization are destroying the planet.



Image
Watch potholer54 before you make a fool out of yourself. Or even better, review the relevant scientific literature on skepticalscience.com that does prove human-induced climate change is a fact. And you should know that certain substances are very potent even in small quantities, as is the case with nerve gases or certain toxins. Try ingesting just 1.3 nanograms of undiluted pure botulotoxin and then count how fast it will manifest itself within your body. I bet you couldn't, because it would kill you in a near instant. So don't spread drivel that 1% of CO2 in the atmosphere is "harmless" unless you have proven otherwise through the scientifc method.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19290
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:53 pm

True Refuge wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Maybe right now, but things look to get progressively worse than things are now.


Really depends on what metrics you look at.

Looks like we're doing good, but really it's just the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Well…no. Extreme poverty has dropped, we’re living longer, malnutrition has dropped, War happens at a lower rate than since we were cavemen…
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

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Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24522
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:57 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Yeah we’re looking at not having enough fucking oxygen to breathe so

I’d say we have to worry more about having enough clean water to drink and food to eat before we have to worry about that.

If the Amazon want burning the fuck down I’d say yeah
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Antityranicals
Minister
 
Posts: 2006
Founded: May 18, 2019
Capitalizt

Postby Antityranicals » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:58 pm

Look. Science is impossible in this situation, given the obvious lack of control data. We weren't measuring before people were burning fossil fuels, so there's no data without fossil fuels. The best you can hope to come up with is a "the Earth is warming, we don't know why." Fossil fuel emissions is a hypothesis at best. What we DO have vague data on is that the earth warmed significantly about 1,000 years ago, increasing crop yields, and not causing a "global ecological collapse."
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Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 740
Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:58 pm

Surkiea II wrote:
Samudera Darussalam wrote:Aureumterra is now a far left socialist? That's funny.

No, they are not marxists.

Well considering how much he loves pushing left-wing agendas, yeah he is.

And they are Marxists.


Rojava Free State wrote:
This conspiracy theory has too many steps to be real. First off the democrats, the so called left party, are not anywhere near being marxists. They receive thousands of dollars a year in donations from wall street and support open immigration that benefits corporations. They're just as plutocrat controlled as the GOP. If there truly was an attack on corporate america, it would be put down immediately

Second off, not every one who disagrees with you is a damn commie. Many of us are libertarians which if anything makes us farther from stalin or mao than you are

Considering that they have actual communists like Bernie Sanders, Tulsi Gabbard, AOC and Illhan Omar, the DNC are a bunch of far left radicals. And all they do is attack corporations and capitalism.

Stop acting like a damn commie and I won't call you one.

"In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]"

I haven't seen any of the figures you've mentioned calling for the adoption of the above policies, nor did anyone within this thread call for a stateless, moneyless, or classless society, not even a USSR-style centrally planned economy. Perhaps you should drop the redbaiting and contribute something constructive to this discussion instead of accusing everyone who doesn't agree with your views of "gommunism". I don't call you a Nazi for being a conservative, and neither should you smear others as "communists" only because they happen to be to the left of Ayn Rand and Augusto Pinochet.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19290
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Antityranicals wrote:Look. Science is impossible in this situation, given the obvious lack of control data. We weren't measuring before people were burning fossil fuels, so there's no data without fossil fuels. The best you can hope to come up with is a "the Earth is warming, we don't know why." Fossil fuel emissions is a hypothesis at best. What we DO have vague data on is that the earth warmed significantly about 1,000 years ago, increasing crop yields, and not causing a "global ecological collapse."

Satan’s balls, that’s not how science works.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

User avatar
True Refuge
Minister
 
Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:03 pm

Kowani wrote:
True Refuge wrote:
Really depends on what metrics you look at.

Looks like we're doing good, but really it's just the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Well…no. Extreme poverty has dropped, we’re living longer, malnutrition has dropped, War happens at a lower rate than since we were cavemen…


No one except anarcho-primitivists think we had it better in caveman times. It's better to look at the path of our society throughout

There are quite a few Western nations on the brink of recession again (US, UK, and Australia being some examples), and we have situations like huge amounts of people living paycheque to paycheque (original report here)*. Not everyone is benefiting.

Personally, I think we are marginally better off due to technological advances offsetting financial situations.

*Admittedly, not a super-large sample size or wide demographic, but the report is still indicative of a problem.
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Australian pan-transhumanist supranationalist labour-unionist SocFem MensLib anti-geographic-nation-state cishet boi
The nuclear family is not sacred. I like the 'bash living arrangements in Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series.

"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few

User avatar
US-SSR
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1450
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby US-SSR » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:04 pm

Solitary, nasty, brutish and short.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19290
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:05 pm

True Refuge wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well…no. Extreme poverty has dropped, we’re living longer, malnutrition has dropped, War happens at a lower rate than since we were cavemen…


No one except anarcho-primitivists think we had it better in caveman times. It's better to look at the path of our society throughout

There are quite a few Western nations on the brink of recession again (US, UK, and Australia being some examples), and we have situations like huge amounts of people living paycheque to paycheque (original report here). Not everyone is benefiting.

Personally, I think we are marginally better off due to technological advances offsetting financial situations.

Well, yeah. I’m not claiming we have it great. But “marginally” is too small a qualifier. We’re quite a lot better off.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

User avatar
True Refuge
Minister
 
Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:06 pm

Antityranicals wrote:Look. Science is impossible in this situation, given the obvious lack of control data. We weren't measuring before people were burning fossil fuels, so there's no data without fossil fuels. The best you can hope to come up with is a "the Earth is warming, we don't know why." Fossil fuel emissions is a hypothesis at best. What we DO have vague data on is that the earth warmed significantly about 1,000 years ago, increasing crop yields, and not causing a "global ecological collapse."


Temperature of Earth from 20,000 BCE to present.

You're ignoring evidence being given to you.

True Refuge wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:No, what you are saying is "screw your actual concrete evidence, I can hide my preconceived notions behind pseudoscience!"


True Refuge wrote:
I'd like a response to this please.


Pretty easy to say that when your position is unfalsifiable.

https://xkcd.com/1732/
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Australian pan-transhumanist supranationalist labour-unionist SocFem MensLib anti-geographic-nation-state cishet boi
The nuclear family is not sacred. I like the 'bash living arrangements in Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series.

"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few

User avatar
True Refuge
Minister
 
Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:07 pm

Kowani wrote:
True Refuge wrote:
No one except anarcho-primitivists think we had it better in caveman times. It's better to look at the path of our society throughout

There are quite a few Western nations on the brink of recession again (US, UK, and Australia being some examples), and we have situations like huge amounts of people living paycheque to paycheque (original report here). Not everyone is benefiting.

Personally, I think we are marginally better off due to technological advances offsetting financial situations.

Well, yeah. I’m not claiming we have it great. But “marginally” is too small a qualifier. We’re quite a lot better off.


I'm probably letting the dire nature of the future affect my conclusions too much, so you're probably right, to be honest. I'm not old enough to remember polio or anything like that firsthand, so I'm not as acutely aware of the struggles of the 20th century as I could be.
Last edited by True Refuge on Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Australian pan-transhumanist supranationalist labour-unionist SocFem MensLib anti-geographic-nation-state cishet boi
The nuclear family is not sacred. I like the 'bash living arrangements in Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series.

"If we have food, he will eat. If we have air, he will breathe. If we have fuel, he will fly." - Becky Chambers, Record of a Spaceborn Few

User avatar
Surkiea II
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: Aug 27, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Surkiea II » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:10 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Calling any of those people communists is like calling ted Cruz a nazi. Nice way to jump the gun. Also they have next to no power in their party, so I don't even know why we talk about them.

Because they are communists, the fact that you deny this is really telling.

As for attacking corporations, I think the corporations have done plenty to demonize themselves these last few years (automation, outsourcing, using illegal immigrant labor, lobbying both parties to relax anti trust laws and give tax breaks). You're probably one of the last people on both the right and the left defending these greedy fat cat crooks who don't give a dead moose's last shit about the American people. That doesn't make me a communist. It makes me legitimately outraged.

If you're going to keep peddling this far-left, anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist and frankly anti-American horseshit, then I'm going to call you out for being a bloody Bolshevik.
Last edited by Surkiea II on Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Posts: 740
Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:11 pm

Antityranicals wrote:Look. Science is impossible in this situation, given the obvious lack of control data. We weren't measuring before people were burning fossil fuels, so there's no data without fossil fuels. The best you can hope to come up with is a "the Earth is warming, we don't know why." Fossil fuel emissions is a hypothesis at best. What we DO have vague data on is that the earth warmed significantly about 1,000 years ago, increasing crop yields, and not causing a "global ecological collapse."

Except it's not a hypothesis, its a theory, and a very well-established at that. It has been originally proposed as far back as 1896 that burning coal would eventually heat up the planet, and further research done by climatologists over the next few decades only confirmed such hypothesis, effectively transforming it into a scientific theory. Here is an article of the empirical evidence for human involvement in climate change:
"The line of empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming is as follows:

We're raising CO2 levels
Human carbon dioxide emissions are calculated from international energy statistics, tabulating coal, brown coal, peat, and crude oil production by nation and year, going back to 1751. CO2 emissions have increased dramatically over the last century, climbing to the rate of 29 billion tonnes of CO2 per year in 2006 (EIA).

Atmospheric CO2 levels are measured at hundreds of monitoring stations across the globe. Independent measurements are also conducted by airplanes and satellites. For periods before 1958, CO2 levels are determined from air bubbles trapped in polar ice cores. In pre-industrial times over the last 10,000 years, CO2 was relatively stable at around 275 to 285 parts per million. Over the last 250 years, atmospheric CO2 levels have increased by about 100 parts per million. Currently, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing by around 15 gigatonnes every year.
Image

Figure 1: Atmospheric CO2 levels (Green is Law Dome ice core, Blue is Mauna Loa, Hawaii) and Cumulative CO2 emissions (CDIAC). While atmospheric CO2 levels are usually expressed in parts per million, here they are displayed as the amount of CO2 residing in the atmosphere in gigatonnes. CO2 emissions includes fossil fuel emissions, cement production and emissions from gas flaring.

Humans are emitting more than twice as much CO2 as what ends up staying there. Nature is reducing our impact on climate by absorbing more than half of our CO2 emissions. The amount of human CO2 left in the air, called the "airborne fraction", has hovered around 43% since 1958.

CO2 traps heat
According to radiative physics and decades of laboratory measurements, increased CO2 in the atmosphere is expected to absorb more infrared radiation as it escapes back out to space. In 1970, NASA launched the IRIS satellite measuring infrared spectra. In 1996, the Japanese Space Agency launched the IMG satellite which recorded similar observations. Both sets of data were compared to discern any changes in outgoing radiation over the 26 year period (Harries 2001). What they found was a drop in outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as CO2 and methane (CH4) absorb energy. The change in outgoing radiation was consistent with theoretical expectations. Thus the paper found "direct experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth's greenhouse effect". This result has been confirmed by subsequent papers using data from later satellites (Griggs 2004, Chen 2007).

Image
Figure 2: Change in spectrum from 1970 to 1996 due to trace gases. 'Brightness temperature' indicates equivalent blackbody temperature (Harries 2001).

When greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation, the energy heats the atmosphere which in turn re-radiates infrared radiation in all directions. Some makes its way back to the earth's surface. Hence we expect to find more infrared radiation heading downwards. Surface measurements from 1973 to 2008 find an increasing trend of infrared radiation returning to earth (Wang 2009). A regional study over the central Alps found that downward infrared radiation is increasing due to the enhanced greenhouse effect (Philipona 2004). Taking this a step further, an analysis of high resolution spectral data allowed scientists to quantitatively attribute the increase in downward radiation to each of several greenhouse gases (Evans 2006). The results lead the authors to conclude that "this experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming.

Image
Figure 3: Spectrum of the greenhouse radiation measured at the surface. Greenhouse effect from water vapor is filtered out, showing the contributions of other greenhouse gases (Evans 2006).

The planet is accumulating heat
When there is more energy coming in than escaping back out to space, our climate accumulates heat. The planet's total heat build up can be derived by adding up the heat content from the ocean, atmosphere, land and ice (Murphy 2009). Ocean heat content was determined down to 3000 metres deep. Atmospheric heat content was calculated from the surface temperature record and heat capacity of the troposphere. Land and ice heat content (eg - the energy required to melt ice) were also included.

Image
Figure 4: Total Earth Heat Content from 1950 (Murphy 2009). Ocean data taken from Domingues et al 2008.

From 1970 to 2003, the planet has been accumulating heat at a rate of 190,260 gigawatts with the vast majority of the energy going into the oceans. Considering a typical nuclear power plant has an output of 1 gigawatt, imagine 190,000 nuclear power plants pouring their energy output directly into our oceans. What about after 2003? A map of of ocean heat from 2003 to 2008 was constructed from ocean heat measurements down to 2000 metres deep (von Schuckmann 2009). Globally, the oceans have continued to accumulate heat to the end of 2008 at a rate of 0.77 ± 0.11 Wm?2, consistent with other determinations of the planet's energy imbalance (Hansen 2005, Trenberth 2009). The planet continues to accumulate heat.

Image
Figure 5: Time series of global mean heat storage (0–2000 m), measured in 108 Jm-2.

So we see a direct line of evidence that we're causing global warming. Human CO2 emissions far outstrip the rise in CO2 levels. The enhanced greenhouse effect is confirmed by satellite and surface measurements. The planet's energy imbalance is confirmed by summations of the planet's total heat content and ocean heat measurements."
Source: https://skepticalscience.com/empirical- ... ediate.htm
Recommended material for further overview on what the science says about AGW:
https://youtu.be/52KLGqDSAjo
Last edited by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia on Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alien Overlord
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 200
Founded: Feb 10, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Alien Overlord » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:20 pm

The earth has seen far worse in it's history. Life will go on.
Walkerfort wrote:so...




Banning cars will lead to a clusterfuck of mininations everywhere and attempting to mash two Eras together miserably and 1984 style dictatorships


butterfly effect when give a butterfly cocaine


Ayissor wrote:
Alien Overlord wrote:You mean the proles living in tribes right? The ones who were also brainwashed 1984 style?

Yup, who else? Workers? Ha, as if we need them in our anarcho-primitivist-orwellian utopia dystopia federation.

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Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel
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Posts: 95
Founded: Nov 14, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:20 pm

Surkiea II wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Calling any of those people communists is like calling ted Cruz a nazi. Nice way to jump the gun. Also they have next to no power in their party, so I don't even know why we talk about them.

Because they are communists, the fact that you deny this is really telling.

As for attacking corporations, I think the corporations have done plenty to demonize themselves these last few years (automation, outsourcing, using illegal immigrant labor, lobbying both parties to relax anti trust laws and give tax breaks). You're probably one of the last people on both the right and the left defending these greedy fat cat crooks who don't give a dead moose's last shit about the American people. That doesn't make me a communist. It makes me legitimately outraged.

If you're going to keep peddling this far-left, anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist and frankly anti-American horseshit, then I'm going to call you out for being a bloody Bolshevik.

You clearly don't understand Socialism and Communism. By your logic I would be a Communist because I don't like Capitalism even though i'm a Third Positionist. Hating Capitalism does not make you a Communist, are you stuck in the Cold War era or something? Also they aren't far left, they are only far left in America because of how right winged your political system is. In Europe they would be center-left.
Just call me C.I.S.I
I am a proud Fascist and Nationalist
Dispatches
My political results
"God does not exist—religion in science is an absurdity, in practice an immorality and in men a disease."- Benito Mussolini

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