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Who was worse?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who was the worst?

Hitler (11,000,000 victims)
134
45%
Stalin (23,000,000 to 40,000,000 victims)
53
18%
Mao (30,000,000 to 70,000,000 victims)
108
37%
 
Total votes : 295

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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:26 am

Marquisal wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
So then stop denying Hitler's role in orchestrating it all.


You can not erase from history the horrible murderers that started all of this (Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler) I do not know why are you trying to hide them from beeing blamed by focusing only in Adolf, who was not the engineer of the Holocaust, but instead a part of it which was controlled by them.


Goering and Himmler were absolutely evil, but Hitler, whether by assisting them, turning a blind eye to them, condoning them or enabling them, was complicit in their actions, and thus is evil too.

And no amount of special jew-hating cocaine changes that.
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Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel
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Postby Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:26 am

Torrocca wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
You can not erase from history the horrible murderers that started all of this (Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler) I do not know why are you trying to hide them from beeing blamed by focusing only in Adolf, who was not the engineer of the Holocaust, but instead a part of it which was controlled by them.


Hitler directly orchestrated it, and those two carried out the orders. It's that damn simple.

Exactly, even if he didn't order it he still allowed it to happen so their is no point for someone to defend it.
Last edited by Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:27 am

Marquisal wrote:
Pacomia wrote:It’s funny because Hitler was the one that was leading the Third Reich and people like Goering, Himmler, and Goebbels were his inferiors.


I do not see any fun in the way they controlled the Fuhrer to make him the responsible of the Holocaust that he did not start. They even tried to fake a jewish terrorist attack on Adolf to kill him and start new policyes harder with the jews...

I highly doubt wholly reject the notion that Hitler wanted none of the atrocities committed under him, considering he expressed very loudly that he wanted them to happen without needing anybody else to speak for him.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:28 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
Not, entirely, it was mostly Goering's fault as he tried to make the Adolf follow him in his delurical dreams.

" I have issued the command – and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. "
-Adolf Hitler


Under drug effects.
Now let's qote Goering or Himmler, ah I think that you would not want it because that would prove that they were the ones in charge of the Holocaust, and not the Adolf.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:" I have issued the command – and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. "
-Adolf Hitler


Under drug effects.
Now let's qote Goering or Himmler, ah I think that you would not want it because that would prove that they were the ones in charge of the Holocaust, and not the Adolf.

The influence of drugs is no excuse, nor is it relevant.

If I get high on cocaine and shoot up a mosque, it's still 100% on me.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:29 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:" I have issued the command – and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. "
-Adolf Hitler


Under drug effects.


That cocaine must be pretty strong to cause a hatred of the Untermensch.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
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8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:30 am

Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Hitler directly orchestrated it, and those two carried out the orders. It's that damn simple.

Exactly, even if he didn't order it he still allowed it to happen so their is no point for someone to defend it.


I am not defending him, I'm just blaming the ones who started the Holocaust and then tried to hide their names from the horrors of history by making Adolf be seemed as the responsible of all of that.
I am just trying to make justice by blaming Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler, the true murderers.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:31 am

Marquisal wrote:
Cenomannos infecisse santo Insel wrote:Exactly, even if he didn't order it he still allowed it to happen so their is no point for someone to defend it.


I am not defending him,

Yes you are.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:31 am

Estanglia wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
Under drug effects.


That cocaine must be pretty strong to cause a hatred of the Untermensch.


"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:32 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
Under drug effects.
Now let's qote Goering or Himmler, ah I think that you would not want it because that would prove that they were the ones in charge of the Holocaust, and not the Adolf.

The influence of drugs is no excuse, nor is it relevant.

If I get high on cocaine and shoot up a mosque, it's still 100% on me.


It was a complot against him, that is relevant. As well as Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler were truly relevant in the Holocaust, not as Adolf.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:38 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:The influence of drugs is no excuse, nor is it relevant.

If I get high on cocaine and shoot up a mosque, it's still 100% on me.


It was a complot against him, that is relevant.

A what against him?
As well as Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler were truly relevant in the Holocaust, not as Adolf.

The guy who wrote a book on how Germany should remove undesirables and began enacting his plans when in power is most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most relevant person to the Holocaust.
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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:40 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
It was a complot against him, that is relevant.

A what against him?
As well as Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler were truly relevant in the Holocaust, not as Adolf.

The guy who wrote a book on how Germany should remove undesirables and began enacting his plans when in power is most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most relevant person to the Holocaust.


A plot. Sorry my english is not perfect.


Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:43 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:A what against him?

The guy who wrote a book on how Germany should remove undesirables and began enacting his plans when in power is most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most relevant person to the Holocaust.


A plot. Sorry my english is not perfect.


Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?

This is a pretty easy one.
He was a hypocritical asshole and just thought "well, those are the good ones." Same reason you get some American neo-Confederate level racists who have black friends.
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Drunkerland
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Postby Drunkerland » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:43 am

Great, we have people defending Hitler and people defending Mao. Whats next people defending Ted Bundy?

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:44 am

Grosserdeutsches Reich wrote:Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

Take up classes in a summer school please.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:44 am

Drunkerland wrote:Great, we have people defending Hitler and people defending Mao. Whats next people defending Ted Bundy?

Well this is Nationstates so give it time.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:47 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:A what against him?

The guy who wrote a book on how Germany should remove undesirables and began enacting his plans when in power is most definitely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most relevant person to the Holocaust.


A plot. Sorry my english is not perfect.

You're trying to tell me that the Holocaust was a conspiracy concocted by every other member of the Nazi Party to drug Hitler up, get him to write Mein Kampf, and kill people of multiple ethnicities, religions, sexualities, and physical disabilities all under his nose.

Occam's razor says this is bullshit and reality agrees.


Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?

Nazis are not well known for strong ideological foundation or consistency.
Also, his by "personal doctor" I assume you're referring to Eduard Bloch.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:48 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Grosserdeutsches Reich wrote:Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

Take up classes in a summer school please.


Thanks to the Adolf we have Fanta, laws against living animal experiments, natural areas led to endangered species, scientiffic advances, free healthcare systems, pension systems, some gender equality laws, and the protection of culture.
Yes, he permited some bad things to happen, but he was also the responsible of some lovely things :roll: :blush:
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Postby Kowani » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:49 am

Marquisal wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Take up classes in a summer school please.


Thanks to the Adolf we have Fanta, laws against living animal experiments, natural areas led to endangered species, scientiffic advances, free healthcare systems, pension systems, some gender equality laws, and the protection of culture.
Yes, he permited some bad things to happen, but he was also the responsible of some lovely things :roll: :blush:

Some of this is just plain bullshit, “Fanta” is not a benefit of Nazi Fucking Germany, and some of it is top tier apologia.
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Marquisal
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Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:50 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Marquisal wrote:
A plot. Sorry my english is not perfect.

You're trying to tell me that the Holocaust was a conspiracy concocted by every other member of the Nazi Party to drug Hitler up, get him to write Mein Kampf, and kill people of multiple ethnicities, religions, sexualities, and physical disabilities all under his nose.

Occam's razor says this is bullshit and reality agrees.


Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?

Nazis are not well known for strong ideological foundation or consistency.
Also, his by "personal doctor" I assume you're referring to Eduard Bloch.


The plot was after all a fight to gain power. Herr Goebbels was a Hitler dissent at firsts, then he tried to persuade him of many things (Like the Holocaust) and he achieved some of his goals, but the Adolf did not want some other of his goals to happen, as well as the goals of other high party members, so they started the plot to wash their names from the history of holocaust, and instead make Uncle Adolf the responsible of all.
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Estanglia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Estanglia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:51 am

Torrocca wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
That cocaine must be pretty strong to cause a hatred of the Untermensch.


"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"


I really wanna put this in my sig.

Marquisal wrote:Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?


Maybe because they were 'the good ones'. They weren't like 'the other Jews'.
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Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Saiwania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:52 am

What occured in Cambodia under Pol Pot was just crazy.

I can't find much Cambodians at the time could do, other than to flee. It should primarily be the neighboring countries' problem though, not the developed countries when or if events such as that happen.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Aureumterra
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:52 am

inb4 those people come in and say “Trump”

You could say Hitler was the worse because he was actually actively trying to kill most of those he killed, whereas Stalin and Mao got blood on their hands due to the failures of their respective ideologies.
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Marquisal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Marquisal » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:53 am

Estanglia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"


I really wanna put this in my sig.

Marquisal wrote:Also, if the Adolf was the one who wanted to murder all jews, why his jewish friends lived well in Nazi Germany? And why did he trust his personal doctor, who was also a jew?


Maybe because they were 'the good ones'. They weren't like 'the other Jews'.


But he did not met their families, while still they lived... So, who are "the other jews" for you?
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Torrocca
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Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:54 am

Estanglia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"


I really wanna put this in my sig.


Go for it. :P
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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