The Polska Electoral Polka(A Polish Election Thread)

[Polszcza]

That is one of the least healthy attitudes regarding electoral tradition I have ever read anywhere.

I absolutly agree. This is by far the dumbest and most stupidest thing to do. I may do not agree with the political systems, or even the entire foundation upon which is build. But I've with a vote I've still have an possibility to influence things, however little, towards a more desireable outcome within what currently exists. Even though this will not result in something I genuinely desire, want or like, it is still one move I can make.

So why waste it?

That is the lie which I will forever shun. Votes are meaningless. Everyone knows that there is massive voter fraud and backroom deals made by those with connections. Votes are a charade designed to pacify the masses by making them think that they can change something. Or to pacify the intelligentsia and its bloated self-righteousness.

Plus the Sejm and parliaments in general are the most corrupt, inefficient, outdated, unnecessary elements of any government. With current mass communications, the people’s will doesn’t need corrupt middle-men who do nothing but sit on their arses and enrich themselves. O, cześć wam panowie, magnaci, za naszą niewolę, kajdany!

[Nakena]

I absolutly agree. This is by far the dumbest and most stupidest thing to do. I may do not agree with the political systems, or even the entire foundation upon which is build. But I've with a vote I've still have an possibility to influence things, however little, towards a more desireable outcome within what currently exists. Even though this will not result in something I genuinely desire, want or like, it is still one move I can make.

So why waste it?

That is the lie which I will forever shun. Votes are meaningless. Everyone knows that there is massive voter fraud and backroom deals made by those with connections. Votes are a charade designed to pacify the masses by making them think that they can change something. Or to pacify the intelligentsia and its bloated self-righteousness.

Plus the Sejm and parliaments in general are the most corrupt, inefficient, outdated, unnecessary elements of any government. With current mass communications, the people’s will doesn’t need corrupt middle-men who do nothing but sit on their arses and enrich themselves. O, cześć wam panowie, magnaci, za naszą niewolę, kajdany!

Elections can still change the political course of a country or due their outcome destabilize the system in ways that lead to its ultimative downfall, which is, I believe your intention. I do not vote necessarily for a party because I believe in their program but because their presence or rise will change the further course of events in a way preferable to my objectives and desires.

I do not inherently agree with the system either but I believe the best way to change, and possibily bring it down is through from the inside using its own inertia and self-destructive, corrupt tendencies and elements rather than being at the outside and trying to bring down the fortress when I have just a few stones, but they a full garrison.

[Forumland]

The preliminary results are done.

PiS 235
KO 134
Lewica 49
PSL 30
Konfederacja 11
German Minority 1

Total 460 (231 for majority)

PiS did lose their Senate majority but it doesn’t matter because the Sejm can override the Senate’s amendments by a majority vote. However, they were unable to gain seats from 2015 so the results are a bit disappointing for them. KORWiN managed to enter the Sejm and everybody else seems to have performed about as well as expected

[Polszcza]

That is the lie which I will forever shun. Votes are meaningless. Everyone knows that there is massive voter fraud and backroom deals made by those with connections. Votes are a charade designed to pacify the masses by making them think that they can change something. Or to pacify the intelligentsia and its bloated self-righteousness.

Plus the Sejm and parliaments in general are the most corrupt, inefficient, outdated, unnecessary elements of any government. With current mass communications, the people’s will doesn’t need corrupt middle-men who do nothing but sit on their arses and enrich themselves. O, cześć wam panowie, magnaci, za naszą niewolę, kajdany!

Elections can still change the political course of a country or due their outcome destabilize the system in ways that lead to its ultimative downfall, which is, I believe your intention. I do not vote necessarily for a party because I believe in their program but because their presence or rise will change the further course of events in a way preferable to my objectives and desires.

I do not inherently agree with the system either but I believe the best way to change, and possibily bring it down is through from the inside using its own inertia and self-destructive, corrupt tendencies and elements rather than being at the outside and trying to bring down the fortress when I have just a few stones, but they a full garrison.

O naïveté! Poland’s vanquisher of communism Lech Wałęsa was an agent of the security service and the whole 1989-1990 “transformation” was a charade to allow the communists a graceful exit to enter behind the scenes/privatised forms. If that could happen, then anything is possible. What I’m saying is that if the supposedly greatness of Solidarność was all a lie, then any sentiments such as yours (undermining from the inside) look more like wishful thinking. I wish there had been a civil war in Poland. At least the connections would have been actually undermined through brute force. But no, we got democracy and free money and joined the Yankee gorilla club.

Rather than adhering to liberal idealism look around and acknowledge the stench of gangrene instead of calling it a fragrance.

[Baltenstein]

I never vote [...]

Thanks.

[Nakena]

I never vote [...]

Thanks.

You still got me.

And I vote. Every. Single. Time.

But not for what you might think now xD

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

His flag is literally identical to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, so yeah, he is most likely a Strasserist.

Identical? Not really. First, ONR (both pre- and post-war) uses a green flag. Second, the “falanga” symbol is geometric. See this link. https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruch_Narodowo-Radykalny

As for my insignia, I trust that you’ve never examined the Polish naval jack (both current and past)? All I’ve done is taken the heraldic i.e. realistic arm of the naval jack and given it the szczerbiec (Poland’s traditional sword). If I were a Strasserist/ONR supporter/MWp etc., I would have used the National Democratic “Mieczyk Chrobrego”.

Call me whatever, but I will be an arse about symbolism and accuracy.

Be that as it may, your flag of a arm holding an szczerbiec definitely bears similiarity to the ONR-Falanga logo, as seen below, and when we factor in your open disdain for democracy and your wish to built a absolutist totalitarian state, well..... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then its a duck.
For reference, here is the logo of the National Radical Camp:

Now compare it to the white arm holding an szczerbiec logo:

Whether ONR's logo is "geometric" or not, it matches perfectly with your more "detailed" version, even if you do deny it.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Their social policies are crap, but who gives a shit about LGBT rights when wages are rising 10% a year?

1930s NSDAP version:
"Their political and social policies are crap, but who gives a shit about democracy and human rights when the German economy is rapidly recovering year by year? "

Exactly

Now you know why NSDAP was popular.

[Polszcza]

Identical? Not really. First, ONR (both pre- and post-war) uses a green flag. Second, the “falanga” symbol is geometric. See this link. https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruch_Narodowo-Radykalny

As for my insignia, I trust that you’ve never examined the Polish naval jack (both current and past)? All I’ve done is taken the heraldic i.e. realistic arm of the naval jack and given it the szczerbiec (Poland’s traditional sword). If I were a Strasserist/ONR supporter/MWp etc., I would have used the National Democratic “Mieczyk Chrobrego”.

Call me whatever, but I will be an arse about symbolism and accuracy.

Be that as it may, your flag of a arm holding an szczerbiec definitely bears similiarity to the ONR-Falanga logo, as seen below, and when we factor in your open disdain for democracy and your wish to built a absolutist totalitarian state, well..... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then its a duck.
For reference, here is the logo of the National Radical Camp:

Now compare it to the white arm holding an szczerbiec logo:

Whether ONR's logo is "geometric" or not, it matches perfectly with your more "detailed" version, even if you do deny it.

And maybe the ONR originally based their symbol on the naval jack arm? Maybe the symbols have a common ancestor?Moreover do you even know what Szczerbiec looks like? Here is an illustration for your knowledge:


And the flag is based on the design for the Presidential jack/Banner of Poland.


The falanga is a stylised arm carrying a sword. The sword looks generic and not like Szczerbiec. My sword clearly resembles a shortened Szcerbiec.

Anyway, supposedly my flag “matches perfectly” or is “identical” to ONR. I may not be a native speaker, but I certainly know what identical and perfectly means. And while similar, at best, my flag isn’t identical with ONR’s flag.
But then again, I love communist confirmation bias? Don’t you?

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

An excellent result for Lewica! I was surprised that they were able to pull off doing the pragmatic thing and not handing this to PiS again.

How does Trumptonium feel about ZP losing some of its clout?

Apathetic, the loss of seats was expected given the fact that in the last election just under 13% of the electorate was ignored because they failed to reach the 8 and 5% electoral margins respectively, handing an unusual and probably unrepeatable election victory to PiS and its two partners. I should also note that this is the first election since the party's creation where they lost seats (2001, 2005, 2007 (min govt), 2011, 2015 > 2019) so it was rather inevitable anyway. What happened in 2015 is more of an accident of the Polish constitution, even if the funny irony was that the party which lost out on entering the Parliament was the party which introduced those constitutional provisions in the first place in 1997. The funny thing is SLD wanted these provisions to enshrine a two/three party system, and in the 1997 referendum what are today PiS heartlands voted heavily against it. They were the winners in the end.

They received just over 8 million votes, making it the largest popular vote mandate a party has had in Polish history to run a country, and the only circumstance in Polish history where a ruling party has increased its popular vote share and total. I think most people observing Polish politics, or even European politics where losing vote share while in government is the general rule of thumb, would agree this election has pretty much been nothing less than a success for PiS.

They still have a parliamentary majority, by the way. Not really sure what kind of image is being portrayed with them losing power.

Under the government of the liberal PO, Poles often heard their politicians brag about how well the Polish economy was doing, especially relative to the global difficulties during the economic crisis era (Poland was the only EU member state to not experience a recession under their rule between 2008-2011.) However, an important segment of Polish citizens remained excluded from reaping the benefits of privatisation and from opening the country up to international trade and foreign investment for over 25 years, and for many citizens PO's economic slogans just became a story of "lies, damned lies and statistics."

Yes, the Polish economy was doing well on paper. It never experienced any impact from the global recession (nothing to do with EU funds, all eastern neighbours were utterly fucked) and inflation was low, but wage growth didn't exist and minimum wages were designed to attract international investors looking for cheap labour. When PiS campaigned in 2015, they were basically campaigning on the notion of national and personal dignity. That the country doesn't have to be the Mexico of Europe and that with the right choices (read: electing PiS) it can be directed towards dignity. In just four years PiS basically doubled the minimum wage, increased public spending - on infrastructure - while reducing debt and taxes and these had the effect of accelerating growth back to pre-PO levels and more importantly radically increasing private market wages and the importance of small businesses and domestic corporations. Oh, did I mention they also reduced the retirement age and increased military spending by 50%?

The Polish central bank is even considering changing the methodology of the consumer confidence scale, because it was never designed to go into positive numbers. It reached a record high last month of 10.2 points, and for the last 25 years it hovered between -45 and -15 (reaching highs of -6 in mid 2007 just before the market crash) ... registrations of new cars are 3x higher today than at the beginning of PiS rule (60k new cars a month vs. 20k) ... the country has been Koreanised and you can easily get 600 mbps for 10 dollars a month (1.3% of the minimum wage) ... government debt has fallen below 50% once again and government spending as a portion of the economy is now just 40% ... unemployment has fallen below 5% and more importantly below 1 million unemployed for the first time in Polish history

and most importantly, Poland thanks to PiS policies has totally avoided the importation of economic refugees from North Africa by NGOs.

The only people who would call either this election or the four years of rule of PiS as a failure are those who, reading their policies/ideologies/views, would consider it a failure before it even began.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

Actually let me correct myself, perhaps one visible failure of PiS in this election is that their youth vote appears to have peaked in the last election where they won the majority of the under 30 vote. The youth vote seems to continue to trend to the radical right in Konfederacja, and young people in rural areas seem to have developed a liking for PSL/Polish Coalition like back in the 90s because PiS legit did neglect rural areas in the last 4 years beyond anything other than building new roads and rail connections.

But hey, at least the young aren't flowing to the left like in Western Europe. Currently PiS looks like it is turning into Les Republicains of France while young people continue to be won by Le Pen/ Konfederacja .. so it wouldn't surprise me if anti-Islam and anti-immigration rhetoric was ramped up from zero to serious by the next election to get those voters closer.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Be that as it may, your flag of a arm holding an szczerbiec definitely bears similiarity to the ONR-Falanga logo, as seen below, and when we factor in your open disdain for democracy and your wish to built a absolutist totalitarian state, well..... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then its a duck.
For reference, here is the logo of the National Radical Camp:
(Image)
Now compare it to the white arm holding an szczerbiec logo:
(Image)
Whether ONR's logo is "geometric" or not, it matches perfectly with your more "detailed" version, even if you do deny it.

And maybe the ONR originally based their symbol on the naval jack arm? Maybe the symbols have a common ancestor?Moreover do you even know what Szczerbiec looks like? Here is an illustration for your knowledge:


And the flag is based on the design for the Presidential jack/Banner of Poland.


The falanga is a stylised arm carrying a sword. The sword looks generic and not like Szczerbiec. My sword clearly resembles a shortened Szcerbiec.

Anyway, supposedly my flag “matches perfectly” or is “identical” to ONR. I may not be a native speaker, but I certainly know what identical and perfectly means. And while similar, at best, my flag isn’t identical with ONR’s flag.
But then again, I love communist confirmation bias? Don’t you?

Your flag would be innocuous and wouldn't generate controversy if it wasn't for the fact you openly wish to outright dismantle democracy and build a totalitarian state in order to "regenerate" the nation, a belief commonly held on the fringes of the right, which includes the ONR-Falanga. A traditional Hindu swastika alone wouldn't generate condemnation, but if used in the context of the radical right and an anti-democratic "national revival" and the cleansing of "undesirables", well.... you get the point. And once again, its not "communist" to defend democracy and expose demagogues and wingnuts for what they truly are.

[Polszcza]

And maybe the ONR originally based their symbol on the naval jack arm? Maybe the symbols have a common ancestor?Moreover do you even know what Szczerbiec looks like? Here is an illustration for your knowledge:


And the flag is based on the design for the Presidential jack/Banner of Poland.


The falanga is a stylised arm carrying a sword. The sword looks generic and not like Szczerbiec. My sword clearly resembles a shortened Szcerbiec.

Anyway, supposedly my flag “matches perfectly” or is “identical” to ONR. I may not be a native speaker, but I certainly know what identical and perfectly means. And while similar, at best, my flag isn’t identical with ONR’s flag.
But then again, I love communist confirmation bias? Don’t you?

Your flag would be innocuous and wouldn't generate controversy if it wasn't for the fact you openly wish to outright dismantle democracy and build a totalitarian state in order to "regenerate" the nation, a belief commonly held on the fringes of the right, which includes the ONR-Falanga. A traditional Hindu swastika alone wouldn't generate condemnation, but if used in the context of the radical right and an anti-democratic "national revival" and the cleansing of "undesirables", well.... you get the point. And once again, its not "communist" to defend democracy and expose demagogues and wingnuts for what they truly are.

You’re making me into something I’m not (typical communist tactic, employed by Lenin to sideline his opponents). I simply no believe that democracy has been the agent of the worst corruption in Poland and allowed for post-communist elements (former party members, unidentified SB operatives, etc.) to consolidate their position and continue selling Polish assets (what’s left of them) abroad. As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.

And here is something for a communist/apparent leftist like yourself to ponder. What about the problem of Western imperialism? America, Germany, etc. Poland’s struggle is as much an imperialist one as anything. The problem is the collaborators, who run the current political system. That’s why I’m so opposed to democracy. There’s no recourse against the system. And thus, we’re back to revolt and revolution.

I don’t know how Poland is going to be “revived” for lack of a better term. But I do know that it won’t happen through democracy and the current leadership (a bunch of sell-outs to the communists pre-1989 and to the West post-1989).

Anyway, don’t jump to conclusions. The flag is the flag. It carries a symbol unrelated to ONR. But you don’t care. You’ve found your enemy and you will make him into a fascist regardless who he is.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Your flag would be innocuous and wouldn't generate controversy if it wasn't for the fact you openly wish to outright dismantle democracy and build a totalitarian state in order to "regenerate" the nation, a belief commonly held on the fringes of the right, which includes the ONR-Falanga. A traditional Hindu swastika alone wouldn't generate condemnation, but if used in the context of the radical right and an anti-democratic "national revival" and the cleansing of "undesirables", well.... you get the point. And once again, its not "communist" to defend democracy and expose demagogues and wingnuts for what they truly are.

You’re making me into something I’m not (typical communist tactic, employed by Lenin to sideline his opponents). I simply no believe that democracy has been the agent of the worst corruption in Poland and allowed for post-communist elements (former party members, unidentified SB operatives, etc.) to consolidate their position and continue selling Polish assets (what’s left of them) abroad.

Except democracy per se didn't cause corruption in Poland. The shock therapy programme forced upon the nation by the Solidarity government of Lech Walesa did, coupled with much of the privatized business and industry going to oligarchs and cronies (The same thing happened in Slovakia during Vladimír Mečiar's regime in the 1990s). That's typical laissez faire neoliberalism, akin to what was implemented in Chile by Augusto Pinochet during his rightwing dictatorship in the 1970s and 80s, which was most definitely not democratic, and if anything, its neoliberalism destroys democracy.

Hell, the Scandinavian countries of Northern Europe are classified as the most democratic countries in the world, and contrary to your perception of democracy only bringing corruption, they have one of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet, along with New Zealand. And virtually every leftist I ever spoken to about Poland denounces Lech Walesa and the shock therapy programme imposed upon it in the 1990s, and advocates for an immediate reversal of it and the implementation of a populist democratic socialist government, akin to Jeremy Corbyn in Britain.
Sources for the democracy and corruption rankings of Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... untry_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_i ... orld#World
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018/results
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... l_analysis

As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.

By "national revival", I meant palingenetic ultranationalism, a key component of radical rightwing ideologies, including fascism and Nazism, such as the one practiced in Italy, Nazi Germany, Portugal, Austria, Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania, and Hungary, as described below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingene ... ationalism
So no, merely supporting the domestic culture and economy isn't bad in itself, but advocating for a violent subversion of democracy and the purging of "undesirables" in order to impose a national rebirth campaign is extremist, and is the reason for why the Second World War started for the sake of Lebensraum.

And here is something for a communist/apparent leftist like yourself to ponder. What about the problem of Western imperialism? America, Germany, etc. Poland’s struggle is as much an imperialist one as anything. The problem is the collaborators, who run the current political system. That’s why I’m so opposed to democracy. There’s no recourse against the system. And thus, we’re back to revolt and revolution.

Western imperialism manifests itself in colonialism, direct military invasion, economic enslavement, or political domination. Poland at this moment is a sovereign and independent nationstate, is not militarily occupied, has a government that is openly euroskeptic (Something that wouldn't happen if Poland was truly a western puppet state) and populist, and is reviving the welfare state which was destroyed by the neoliberal PO. Poland's descent into authoritarianism and reactionarism is not part of an "anti-imperialist struggle" as you've been insinuating, given that it clearly is able to elect governments hostile to the Western consensus and has its own powerful military anr navy, and neither the European Union nor NATO attempted to launch a coup to try to oust PiS from power, despite all the conspiracy theories about Poland being under attack from a omnipresent foe (Seems familiar?).

I don’t know how Poland is going to be “revived” for lack of a better term. But I do know that it won’t happen through democracy and the current leadership (a bunch of sell-outs to the communists pre-1989 and to the West post-1989).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Poland that physically prevents you from founding your own movement to heal the country and solve the contradictions of the system. Just look at movements like Podemos, La France Insoumise, Die Linke, MeRA25, Movimento 5 Stelle and Zivi Zid in Croatia. All leftwing populist movements that have shook the political establishments with their political rise, and have managed to exert their influence on politics even in the most liberal democracies.

Populists from the right such as AfD, Fidesz, the French National Front, UKIP and the Brexit Party have also managed to shake up the political scene despite the political establishment's attempts to ignore them. So no, you don't have to institute a totalitarian regime and abolish democracy in order to fix the problems you have listed.

Anyway, don’t jump to conclusions. The flag is the flag. It carries a symbol unrelated to ONR. But you don’t care. You’ve found your enemy and you will make him into a fascist regardless who he is.

I didn't jump to any conclusions. The flag is objectively similiar to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, and coupled with your open hostility to democracy and display of palingenetic ultranationalism, it makes for a pretty good dogwhistle. Have a good one, friend.

[Polszcza]

You’re making me into something I’m not (typical communist tactic, employed by Lenin to sideline his opponents). I simply no believe that democracy has been the agent of the worst corruption in Poland and allowed for post-communist elements (former party members, unidentified SB operatives, etc.) to consolidate their position and continue selling Polish assets (what’s left of them) abroad.

Except democracy per se didn't cause corruption in Poland. The shock therapy programme forced upon the nation by the Solidarity government of Lech Walesa did, coupled with much of the privatized business and industry going to oligarchs and cronies (The same thing happened in Slovakia during Vladimír Mečiar's regime in the 1990s). That's typical laissez faire neoliberalism, akin to what was implemented in Chile by Augusto Pinochet during his rightwing dictatorship in the 1970s and 80s, which was most definitely not democratic, and if anything, its neoliberalism destroys democracy.

Hell, the Scandinavian countries of Northern Europe are classified as the most democratic countries in the world, and contrary to your perception of democracy only bringing corruption, they have one of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet, along with New Zealand. And virtually every leftist I ever spoken to about Poland denounces Lech Walesa and the shock therapy programme imposed upon it in the 1990s, and advocates for an immediate reversal of it and the implementation of a populist democratic socialist government, akin to Jeremy Corbyn in Britain.
Sources for the democracy and corruption rankings of Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... untry_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_i ... orld#World
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018/results
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... l_analysis

As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.

By "national revival", I meant palingenetic ultranationalism, a key component of radical rightwing ideologies, including fascism and Nazism, such as the one practiced in Italy, Nazi Germany, Portugal, Austria, Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania, and Hungary, as described below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingene ... ationalism
So no, merely supporting the domestic culture and economy isn't bad in itself, but advocating for a violent subversion of democracy and the purging of "undesirables" in order to impose a national rebirth campaign is extremist, and is the reason for why the Second World War started for the sake of Lebensraum.

And here is something for a communist/apparent leftist like yourself to ponder. What about the problem of Western imperialism? America, Germany, etc. Poland’s struggle is as much an imperialist one as anything. The problem is the collaborators, who run the current political system. That’s why I’m so opposed to democracy. There’s no recourse against the system. And thus, we’re back to revolt and revolution.

Western imperialism manifests itself in colonialism, direct military invasion, economic enslavement, or political domination. Poland at this moment is a sovereign and independent nationstate, is not militarily occupied, has a government that is openly euroskeptic (Something that wouldn't happen if Poland was truly a western puppet state) and populist, and is reviving the welfare state which was destroyed by the neoliberal PO. Poland's descent into authoritarianism and reactionarism is not part of an "anti-imperialist struggle" as you've been insinuating, given that it clearly is able to elect governments hostile to the Western consensus and has its own powerful military anr navy, and neither the European Union nor NATO attempted to launch a coup to try to oust PiS from power, despite all the conspiracy theories about Poland being under attack from a omnipresent foe (Seems familiar?).

I don’t know how Poland is going to be “revived” for lack of a better term. But I do know that it won’t happen through democracy and the current leadership (a bunch of sell-outs to the communists pre-1989 and to the West post-1989).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Poland that physically prevents you from founding your own movement to heal the country and solve the contradictions of the system. Just look at movements like Podemos, La France Insoumise, Die Linke, MeRA25, Movimento 5 Stelle and Zivi Zid in Croatia. All leftwing populist movements that have shook the political establishments with their political rise, and have managed to exert their influence on politics even in the most liberal democracies.

Populists from the right such as AfD, Fidesz, the French National Front, UKIP and the Brexit Party have also managed to shake up the political scene despite the political establishment's attempts to ignore them. So no, you don't have to institute a totalitarian regime and abolish democracy in order to fix the problems you have listed.

Anyway, don’t jump to conclusions. The flag is the flag. It carries a symbol unrelated to ONR. But you don’t care. You’ve found your enemy and you will make him into a fascist regardless who he is.

I didn't jump to any conclusions. The flag is objectively similiar to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, and coupled with your open hostility to democracy and display of palingenetic ultranationalism, it makes for a pretty good dogwhistle. Have a good one, friend.

You’re making me into something I’m not (typical communist tactic, employed by Lenin to sideline his opponents). I simply no believe that democracy has been the agent of the worst corruption in Poland and allowed for post-communist elements (former party members, unidentified SB operatives, etc.) to consolidate their position and continue selling Polish assets (what’s left of them) abroad.

Except democracy per se didn't cause corruption in Poland. The shock therapy programme forced upon the nation by the Solidarity government of Lech Walesa did, coupled with much of the privatized business and industry going to oligarchs and cronies (The same thing happened in Slovakia during Vladimír Mečiar's regime in the 1990s). That's typical laissez faire neoliberalism, akin to what was implemented in Chile by Augusto Pinochet during his rightwing dictatorship in the 1970s and 80s, which was most definitely not democratic, and if anything, its neoliberalism destroys democracy.

Hell, the Scandinavian countries of Northern Europe are classified as the most democratic countries in the world, and contrary to your perception of democracy only bringing corruption, they have one of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet, along with New Zealand. And virtually every leftist I ever spoken to about Poland denounces Lech Walesa and the shock therapy programme imposed upon it in the 1990s, and advocates for an immediate reversal of it and the implementation of a populist democratic socialist government, akin to Jeremy Corbyn in Britain.
Sources for the democracy and corruption rankings of Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... untry_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_i ... orld#World
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018/results
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... l_analysis

As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.

By "national revival", I meant palingenetic ultranationalism, a key component of radical rightwing ideologies, including fascism and Nazism, such as the one practiced in Italy, Nazi Germany, Portugal, Austria, Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania, and Hungary, as described below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingene ... ationalism
So no, merely supporting the domestic culture and economy isn't bad in itself, but advocating for a violent subversion of democracy and the purging of "undesirables" in order to impose a national rebirth campaign is extremist, and is the reason for why the Second World War started for the sake of Lebensraum.

And here is something for a communist/apparent leftist like yourself to ponder. What about the problem of Western imperialism? America, Germany, etc. Poland’s struggle is as much an imperialist one as anything. The problem is the collaborators, who run the current political system. That’s why I’m so opposed to democracy. There’s no recourse against the system. And thus, we’re back to revolt and revolution.

Western imperialism manifests itself in colonialism, direct military invasion, economic enslavement, or political domination. Poland at this moment is a sovereign and independent nationstate, is not militarily occupied, has a government that is openly euroskeptic (Something that wouldn't happen if Poland was truly a western puppet state) and populist, and is reviving the welfare state which was destroyed by the neoliberal PO. Poland's descent into authoritarianism and reactionarism is not part of an "anti-imperialist struggle" as you've been insinuating, given that it clearly is able to elect governments hostile to the Western consensus and has its own powerful military anr navy, and neither the European Union nor NATO attempted to launch a coup to try to oust PiS from power, despite all the conspiracy theories about Poland being under attack from a omnipresent foe (Seems familiar?).

I don’t know how Poland is going to be “revived” for lack of a better term. But I do know that it won’t happen through democracy and the current leadership (a bunch of sell-outs to the communists pre-1989 and to the West post-1989).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Poland that physically prevents you from founding your own movement to heal the country and solve the contradictions of the system. Just look at movements like Podemos, La France Insoumise, Die Linke, MeRA25, Movimento 5 Stelle and Zivi Zid in Croatia. All leftwing populist movements that have shook the political establishments with their political rise, and have managed to exert their influence on politics even in the most liberal democracies.

Populists from the right such as AfD, Fidesz, the French National Front, UKIP and the Brexit Party have also managed to shake up the political scene despite the political establishment's attempts to ignore them. So no, you don't have to institute a totalitarian regime and abolish democracy in order to fix the problems you have listed.

Anyway, don’t jump to conclusions. The flag is the flag. It carries a symbol unrelated to ONR. But you don’t care. You’ve found your enemy and you will make him into a fascist regardless who he is.

I didn't jump to any conclusions. The flag is objectively similiar to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, and coupled with your open hostility to democracy and display of palingenetic ultranationalism, it makes for a pretty good dogwhistle. Have a good one, friend.

I’m not your “friend”.

Has any post-1989 government actually done anything good for Poland? Nope. Wałęsa was a communist puppet (so much for the myth of democracy after 1989). Poland’s governments have only enriched themselves by selling everything left and right, making deals with foreign conglomerates, making deals with the West (look at PiS bootlicking of Trump after 2016).

We could have had our own domestically designed and produced fighter jet, the Skorpion, until Pawlak killed that project. We’re still waiting on that first nuclear reactor. Instead we’re beholden to coal or to German windmill companies. We used to produce and design our own automobiles (FSO). Not anymore. All young Polish scientists and educated persons by default try to go to the West, because they know that they won’t thrive here. So Poland looses her native talent.

I’m not one of these “made in Poland” types who only wants industry simply to create jobs. What is missing is Polish design, independent Polish innovation, Polish research. I want Polish culture to thrive. When was the last great Polish opera composed? Polish symphony? Polish cinema that isn’t about WWII (and all those lovely atrocities), the Cold War, etc.?

The only “undersireables” (to use your term, not mine) in Poland are its current government and those who lead/have led the post-1989 system (financial backers, unidentified/unlustrated SB agents, political leaders not in government, like Jarosław Kaczyński, etc.). And by purge, I assume you mean stripping them of their access to power. Because that is the only thing that needs to happen. But you like creating strawmen, especially when they confirm your self-righteous outing of fascists (or simply those you don’t agree with). Read my quote to see where I mentioned all those horrible things that I supposedly support?

“As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.”

Where did I talk of purging “undesireables” in that quote, aside from removing those who lead the system? Deserve to hang? A simple hyperbole designed to express frustration. But where did I talk of installing a totalitarian government? I have expressed the view that democracy makes things worse and thus should be replaced with something. But totalitarianism isn’t the only alternative, and I even admitted that don’t know what the alternative is. You’ve created a strawman instead of engaging with the idea that perhaps Poland has a broken system that cannot be salvaged and needs to be replaced.

In my rant againt democracy, I’m claiming that nothing will change for Poland, as seen in the last 30 years. Wałęsa was sell-out to the communists and he later privatised everything so that the former communists/unlustrated SB could by it all for pennies and then sell it abroad. The SLD under Kwaśniewski finished Wałęsa’s work with backing from the United States- see Bill Clinton’s support of Kwaśniewski presidential campaign, while ensuring that foreign interests would be permanently entrenched into the equation (NATO and the EU). PiS (early 2000s), too brief to mention, but they destroyed any possible good relations with the Russian Federation (before it went crazy in the 2010s) by playing into Polish anti-Soviet Russophobia for political points, especially after the Smoleńsk accident. PO continued the SLD’s job only it geared more closely to the EU, especially Germany. Finally PiS after 2015 pissed off Berlin and Brussels and continued to piss off Moscow (poke the bear some more why won’t you?) turned Poland into an American puppet while actually clamping down on dissent (see Fort Trump and the various breeches of democracy under PiS). Democracy, at least in Poland, has proven incapable of solving anything. Democracy maybe didn’t cause this problem although I believe, based on the circumstances that it was a sham from start, seeing how the Round Table Talks were a set-up to ensure that nothing changed behind the scenes. But even if democracy in Poland didn’t cause these problems, it will certainly not solve them, hence my opposition to the system. The whole system (and those running it) has to go.

Again, I care about goals, not procedure. I care about Polish culture, not Poland’s military (but it needs to be able to protect itself, that’s all), not territory (no revanchism, Poland doesn’t need to take back Lvov or Vilnius), not Polish racial purity (whatever that means). In short, I care for my country’s cultural prosperity, which none of our politicians care about (too busy enriching themselves at the expense of everything else). You want a Strasserist/far-right/fascist wing-nut flag, then my puppet Lenkia can give you just that.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Except democracy per se didn't cause corruption in Poland. The shock therapy programme forced upon the nation by the Solidarity government of Lech Walesa did, coupled with much of the privatized business and industry going to oligarchs and cronies (The same thing happened in Slovakia during Vladimír Mečiar's regime in the 1990s). That's typical laissez faire neoliberalism, akin to what was implemented in Chile by Augusto Pinochet during his rightwing dictatorship in the 1970s and 80s, which was most definitely not democratic, and if anything, its neoliberalism destroys democracy.

Hell, the Scandinavian countries of Northern Europe are classified as the most democratic countries in the world, and contrary to your perception of democracy only bringing corruption, they have one of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet, along with New Zealand. And virtually every leftist I ever spoken to about Poland denounces Lech Walesa and the shock therapy programme imposed upon it in the 1990s, and advocates for an immediate reversal of it and the implementation of a populist democratic socialist government, akin to Jeremy Corbyn in Britain.
Sources for the democracy and corruption rankings of Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... untry_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_i ... orld#World
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018/results
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... l_analysis


By "national revival", I meant palingenetic ultranationalism, a key component of radical rightwing ideologies, including fascism and Nazism, such as the one practiced in Italy, Nazi Germany, Portugal, Austria, Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania, and Hungary, as described below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingene ... ationalism
So no, merely supporting the domestic culture and economy isn't bad in itself, but advocating for a violent subversion of democracy and the purging of "undesirables" in order to impose a national rebirth campaign is extremist, and is the reason for why the Second World War started for the sake of Lebensraum.



Western imperialism manifests itself in colonialism, direct military invasion, economic enslavement, or political domination. Poland at this moment is a sovereign and independent nationstate, is not militarily occupied, has a government that is openly euroskeptic (Something that wouldn't happen if Poland was truly a western puppet state) and populist, and is reviving the welfare state which was destroyed by the neoliberal PO. Poland's descent into authoritarianism and reactionarism is not part of an "anti-imperialist struggle" as you've been insinuating, given that it clearly is able to elect governments hostile to the Western consensus and has its own powerful military anr navy, and neither the European Union nor NATO attempted to launch a coup to try to oust PiS from power, despite all the conspiracy theories about Poland being under attack from a omnipresent foe (Seems familiar?).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Poland that physically prevents you from founding your own movement to heal the country and solve the contradictions of the system. Just look at movements like Podemos, La France Insoumise, Die Linke, MeRA25, Movimento 5 Stelle and Zivi Zid in Croatia. All leftwing populist movements that have shook the political establishments with their political rise, and have managed to exert their influence on politics even in the most liberal democracies.

Populists from the right such as AfD, Fidesz, the French National Front, UKIP and the Brexit Party have also managed to shake up the political scene despite the political establishment's attempts to ignore them. So no, you don't have to institute a totalitarian regime and abolish democracy in order to fix the problems you have listed.

I didn't jump to any conclusions. The flag is objectively similiar to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, and coupled with your open hostility to democracy and display of palingenetic ultranationalism, it makes for a pretty good dogwhistle. Have a good one, friend.

Except democracy per se didn't cause corruption in Poland. The shock therapy programme forced upon the nation by the Solidarity government of Lech Walesa did, coupled with much of the privatized business and industry going to oligarchs and cronies (The same thing happened in Slovakia during Vladimír Mečiar's regime in the 1990s). That's typical laissez faire neoliberalism, akin to what was implemented in Chile by Augusto Pinochet during his rightwing dictatorship in the 1970s and 80s, which was most definitely not democratic, and if anything, its neoliberalism destroys democracy.

Hell, the Scandinavian countries of Northern Europe are classified as the most democratic countries in the world, and contrary to your perception of democracy only bringing corruption, they have one of the lowest levels of corruption on the planet, along with New Zealand. And virtually every leftist I ever spoken to about Poland denounces Lech Walesa and the shock therapy programme imposed upon it in the 1990s, and advocates for an immediate reversal of it and the implementation of a populist democratic socialist government, akin to Jeremy Corbyn in Britain.
Sources for the democracy and corruption rankings of Scandinavia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... untry_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_i ... orld#World
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018/results
https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... l_analysis


By "national revival", I meant palingenetic ultranationalism, a key component of radical rightwing ideologies, including fascism and Nazism, such as the one practiced in Italy, Nazi Germany, Portugal, Austria, Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania, and Hungary, as described below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingene ... ationalism
So no, merely supporting the domestic culture and economy isn't bad in itself, but advocating for a violent subversion of democracy and the purging of "undesirables" in order to impose a national rebirth campaign is extremist, and is the reason for why the Second World War started for the sake of Lebensraum.



Western imperialism manifests itself in colonialism, direct military invasion, economic enslavement, or political domination. Poland at this moment is a sovereign and independent nationstate, is not militarily occupied, has a government that is openly euroskeptic (Something that wouldn't happen if Poland was truly a western puppet state) and populist, and is reviving the welfare state which was destroyed by the neoliberal PO. Poland's descent into authoritarianism and reactionarism is not part of an "anti-imperialist struggle" as you've been insinuating, given that it clearly is able to elect governments hostile to the Western consensus and has its own powerful military anr navy, and neither the European Union nor NATO attempted to launch a coup to try to oust PiS from power, despite all the conspiracy theories about Poland being under attack from a omnipresent foe (Seems familiar?).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing, absolutely nothing in Poland that physically prevents you from founding your own movement to heal the country and solve the contradictions of the system. Just look at movements like Podemos, La France Insoumise, Die Linke, MeRA25, Movimento 5 Stelle and Zivi Zid in Croatia. All leftwing populist movements that have shook the political establishments with their political rise, and have managed to exert their influence on politics even in the most liberal democracies.

Populists from the right such as AfD, Fidesz, the French National Front, UKIP and the Brexit Party have also managed to shake up the political scene despite the political establishment's attempts to ignore them. So no, you don't have to institute a totalitarian regime and abolish democracy in order to fix the problems you have listed.

I didn't jump to any conclusions. The flag is objectively similiar to the insignia of the ONR-Falanga, and coupled with your open hostility to democracy and display of palingenetic ultranationalism, it makes for a pretty good dogwhistle. Have a good one, friend.

I’m not your “friend”.

Has any post-1989 government actually done anything good for Poland? Nope. Wałęsa was a communist puppet (so much for the myth of democracy after 1989). Poland’s governments have only enriched themselves by selling everything left and right, making deals with foreign conglomerates, making deals with the West (look at PiS bootlicking of Trump after 2016).

We could have had our own domestically designed and produced fighter jet, the Skorpion, until Pawlak killed that project. We’re still waiting on that first nuclear reactor. Instead we’re beholden to coal or to German windmill companies. We used to produce and design our own automobiles (FSO). Not anymore. All young Polish scientists and educated persons by default try to go to the West, because they know that they won’t thrive here. So Poland looses her native talent.

I’m not one of these “made in Poland” types who only wants industry simply to create jobs. What is missing is Polish design, independent Polish innovation, Polish research. I want Polish culture to thrive. When was the last great Polish opera composed? Polish symphony? Polish cinema that isn’t about WWII (and all those lovely atrocities), the Cold War, etc.?

The only “undersireables” (to use your term, not mine) in Poland are its current government and those who lead/have led the post-1989 system (financial backers, unidentified/unlustrated SB agents, political leaders not in government, like Jarosław Kaczyński, etc.). And by purge, I assume you mean stripping them of their access to power. Because that is the only thing that needs to happen. But you like creating strawmen, especially when they confirm your self-righteous outing of fascists (or simply those you don’t agree with). Read my quote to see where I mentioned all those horrible things that I supposedly support?

“As for national revival, is there anything wrong with promoting the future poets of your nation? Promoting the composers? The sculptors? Industry? Science? It’s a sorry state of affairs when your best and brightest go abroad by default because they won’t thrive in their native country. It’s also sad when you no longer design the things that you will use (such as automobiles, aeroplanes, etc.). Finally, when your own leadership prizes foreign approval over your own interests, you just know that none of them care and that they deserve to hang.”

Where did I talk of purging “undesireables” in that quote, aside from removing those who lead the system? Deserve to hang? A simple hyperbole designed to express frustration. But where did I talk of installing a totalitarian government? I have expressed the view that democracy makes things worse and thus should be replaced with something. But totalitarianism isn’t the only alternative, and I even admitted that don’t know what the alternative is. You’ve created a strawman instead of engaging with the idea that perhaps Poland has a broken system that cannot be salvaged and needs to be replaced.

In my rant againt democracy, I’m claiming that nothing will change for Poland, as seen in the last 30 years. Wałęsa was a sell-out to the communists and he later privatised everything so that the former communists/unlustrated SB could by it all for pennies and then sell it abroad. The SLD under Kwaśniewski finished Wałęsa’s work with backing from the United States- see Bill Clinton’s support of Kwaśniewski presidential campaign, while ensuring that foreign interests would be permanently entrenched into the equation (NATO and the EU). PiS (early 2000s), too brief to mention, but they destroyed any possible good relations with the Russian Federation (before it went crazy in the 2010s) by playing into Polish anti-Soviet Russophobia for political points, especially after the Smoleńsk accident. PO continued the SLD’s job only it geared more closely to the EU, especially Germany. Finally PiS after 2015 pissed off Berlin and Brussels and continued to piss off Moscow (poke the bear some more why won’t you?) turned Poland into an American puppet while actually clamping down on dissent (see Fort Trump and the various breeches of democracy under PiS). Democracy, at least in Poland, has proven incapable of solving anything. Democracy maybe didn’t cause this problem although I believe, based on the circumstances that it was a sham from start, seeing how the Round Table Talks were a set-up to ensure that nothing changed behind the scenes. But even if democracy in Poland didn’t cause these problems, it will certainly not solve them, hence my opposition to the system. The whole system (and those running it) has to go.

Again, I care about goals, not procedure. I care about Polish culture, not Poland’s military (but it needs to be able to protect itself, that’s all), not territory (no revanchism, Poland doesn’t need to take back Lvov or Vilnius), not Polish racial purity (whatever that means). In short, I care for my country’s cultural prosperity, which none of our politicians care about (too busy enriching themselves at the expense of everything else). You want a Strasserist/far-right/fascist wing-nut flag, then my puppet Lenkia can give you just that.

(Note: Hmmm, it seems that you've accidentally copied my quotes twice. Don't worry, it isn't a crime. Hell, sometimes I make typos and gaffes while writing posts. Mind correcting it later to avoid confusion?)
Once again, there is nothing preventing you from founding your own political movement and rousing the Polish masses to follow your message of change (At least how you would define it), because after all, Poland is not a dictatorship (yet), and anyone from the left to the far-right can contest elections in the country. Just sitting around and ranting on the Internet or within your apartment/house about Poland's troubles while not doing anything about it will not solve gowno (Or hovno in Slovak, my native language) to put it frankly, and the electoral apathy and illiteracy of Poles is what led to the desolate state the country is in today.

Now, about whether a non-democratic government would have better solutions against corruption, the answer is quite frankly no. The same Corruption Perceptions Index I have cited has consistently revealed high levels of institutionalized corruption in authoritarian and hybrid regimes in particular, with Russia, China, North Korea, Yemen, Angola, Chad, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Algeria, and Venezuela in particular having poor rankings when it comes to combatting corruption in their countries, all of which have authoritarian systems.

Because naturally, when a government is no longer accountable to the popular will in any legal way and when absolutely nothing (Not even the Constitution) keeps the powers of the government in check, then said leader will be more inclined to indulge in bribery or graft, especially if the press is muzzled and thus unable to blow the whistle on any corruption schemes. And that's the main problem with anti-democratic regimes. Further entrenchment of corruption, nepotism, and abuse of power while human rights are routinely trampled on to reaffirm the government's stranglehold on power.

[Shrillland]

PiS is now requesting a recount in Katowice and Koszalin that could give them back the Senate, which they lost last week: https://www.yahoo.com/news/polands-ruling-nationalists-ask-partial-155459347.html

[Diopolis]

Law and Justice seems to be doing a really good job, although I agree with the people’s party a little more.

[Werpman]

I remember reading that inequality stats were already falling under the PO government, casting shade on the idea that this is a completely economic issue. Am I wrong?

[Nakena]

I remember reading that inequality stats were already falling under the PO government, casting shade on the idea that this is a completely economic issue. Am I wrong?

It seems to be sort of a consensus that PiS got elected for their economic policies.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

PiS is now requesting a recount in Katowice and Koszalin that could give them back the Senate, which they lost last week: https://www.yahoo.com/news/polands-ruling-nationalists-ask-partial-155459347.html

I see they are already learning strategy straight from Erdogan's playbook. I pray it backfires on them as badly as it did in Istanbul.

[Thermodolia]

I know this is a bit old but it was better than creating a new thread.

The Polish Presidential election was today and exit polls are showing that Duda will face off against Rafał Trzaskowski of the Civic Platform on July 12th.

Current polls have both of them neck and neck with Trzaskowski slightly ahead.

If Duda loses it will be a major defeat for PiS

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... utType=amp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ex ... r-BB163wsg

[Outer Sparta]

There's also the close presidential election coming up soon with Duda and Trzaskowski neck and neck in every poll. Duda has the advantage in the east while Trzaskowski's more pro-European stances make him more supported in the western areas of Poland.

[Thermodolia]

There's also the close presidential election coming up soon with Duda and Trzaskowski neck and neck in every poll. Duda has the advantage in the east while Trzaskowski's more pro-European stances make him more supported in the western areas of Poland.

It will be interesting to see Duda lose the presidency

I wonder if right wing populism might have met it’s end

[Outer Sparta]

There's also the close presidential election coming up soon with Duda and Trzaskowski neck and neck in every poll. Duda has the advantage in the east while Trzaskowski's more pro-European stances make him more supported in the western areas of Poland.

It will be interesting to see Duda lose the presidency

I wonder if right wing populism might have met it’s end

If Duda loses, it's a big blow especially in Eastern Europe with all of their recent right-wing populism succeeding there and especially in Hungary.