UK Politics Thread X: Boris' Big Bonkers Brexit Bash

[Alvecia]

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

Other than the dreadful stench it causes, it fills the air with tobacco smoke, which non-smokers in the area will inevitably inhale, causing damage to their health in the long term.

I sure do love others having the freedom to kill me.

[North German Realm]

“X would not have happened if only the people who are knowledgeable about that sort of thing kept silent”

Maybe X is a good thing, then?

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

I mean, other than the whole Secondhand smoke thing? Public smoking is absolutely logical.

[Greater Loegria]

Habitual 4 packs-a-day chimney smoking is problematic. Nothing wrong with lighting up after a meal or drinks though or enjoying a cigar though.

[Caracasus]

Other than the dreadful stench it causes, it fills the air with tobacco smoke, which non-smokers in the area will inevitably inhale, causing damage to their health in the long term.

I sure do love others having the freedom to kill me.

The obvious answer here is to give anyone affected by people smoking around them the freedom to twat the smoker round the back of the head with a lump of wood or something.

[Philjia]

A combination of self-interest and the promotion of freedom.

An ideology based purely on self interest is pretty shallow really.

All ideology is based on some kind of self interest, but most people tend to consider benefit to others as having value to them on some level.

[Salandriagado]

We also pretty much have an NHS staffing crisis every winter as it is, and this is not counting the increased staffing pressure on the NHS because they can no longer rely on people from the EU.

Maybe it'll be just what is needed to send it tumbling down? The NHS eats money like it'll some day run out; a very brave and finance-focussed government needs to pull the plug.

Until the Tories fucked it up, every single NHS trust had a surplus.

[Greater Loegria]

An ideology based purely on self interest is pretty shallow really.

All ideology is based on some kind of self interest, but most people tend to consider benefit to others as having value to them on some level.

Most ideologies hinge on the creation of a cohering society of some sort.

[Salandriagado]

Surprising absolutely no one with a working fucking brain the yellowhammer report shows that NI stands to be absolutely fucked in a no deal brexit

Also "‘I don’t care if Northern Ireland falls into the f@@king sea’."

To be fair, falling into the see sounds less unpleasant than being stuck with Cummings.

[Ifreann]

How 'bout that disaster capitalism?

So, how much are these firms set to make from Boris Johnson’s ‘do or die’ approach to Brexit?

From the financial data publicly available, Byline Times can reveal that currently £4,563,350,000 (£4.6 billion) of aggregate short positions on a ‘no deal’ Brexit have been taken out by hedge funds that directly or indirectly bankrolled Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign.

Most of these firms also donated to Vote Leave and took out short positions on the EU Referendum result. The ones which didn’t typically didn’t exist at that time but are invariably connected via directorships to companies that did.

Another £3,711,000,000 (£3.7 billion) of these short positions have been taken out by firms that donated to the Vote Leave campaign, but did not donate directly to the Johnson leadership campaign.

Currently, £8,274,350,000 (£8.3 billion) of aggregate short positions has been taken out by hedge funds connected to the Prime Minister and his Vote Leave campaign, run by his advisor Dominic Cummings, on a ‘no deal’ Brexit.

[Philjia]

Habitual 4 packs-a-day chimney smoking is problematic. Nothing wrong with lighting up after a meal or drinks though or enjoying a cigar though.

It will probably shorten your life, and even if you don't inhale you're still at an elevated risk of mouth and throat cancer, but the failed war on drugs has quite effectively demonstrated that there's not much point in trying to ban tobacco.

[Greater Loegria]

Habitual 4 packs-a-day chimney smoking is problematic. Nothing wrong with lighting up after a meal or drinks though or enjoying a cigar though.

It will probably shorten your life, and even if you don't inhale you're still at an elevated risk of mouth and throat cancer, but the failed war on drugs has quite effectively demonstrated that there's not much point in trying to ban tobacco.

Heh, my drinking and eating habits have probably shaved off a fair few years anyway.

And yes I don’t see how banning cigarettes could ever be effectively enforced.

[Dumb Ideologies]

And yet on Brexit you say your views are against your personal interest and you regularly support healthcare and social policies that would constrain the opportunities and likely the life expectancies of the poor. The dead and the dying are not known for possessing a wide range of choices.

Seems more like simple contrarianism than anything coherent.

Brexit is more about freedom. Wanting to get rid of the nhs, and the taxes that come with it, is self-interest.

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions nor that your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

[True Refuge]

A combination of self-interest and the promotion of freedom.

An ideology based purely on self interest is pretty shallow really.

It’s like a weird combination of “fuck you I’ve got mine” and “I do what I want”. It’s barely an ideology.

It will probably shorten your life, and even if you don't inhale you're still at an elevated risk of mouth and throat cancer, but the failed war on drugs has quite effectively demonstrated that there's not much point in trying to ban tobacco.

Heh, my drinking and eating habits have probably shaved off a fair few years anyway.

And yes I don’t see how banning cigarettes could ever be effectively enforced.

The way smokers are confined to very small designated areas and kept away from public areas (at least in Australian cities), plain packaging, total advertising ban and monstrous taxes works well enough.

Smokers cause more cost to taxpayers than they generate in tax revenue anyway due to the healthcare costs of lung cancer and other related illnesses, so to hell with them. Anything short of a total ban is fine.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

How 'bout that disaster capitalism?

So, how much are these firms set to make from Boris Johnson’s ‘do or die’ approach to Brexit?

From the financial data publicly available, Byline Times can reveal that currently £4,563,350,000 (£4.6 billion) of aggregate short positions on a ‘no deal’ Brexit have been taken out by hedge funds that directly or indirectly bankrolled Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign.

Most of these firms also donated to Vote Leave and took out short positions on the EU Referendum result. The ones which didn’t typically didn’t exist at that time but are invariably connected via directorships to companies that did.

Another £3,711,000,000 (£3.7 billion) of these short positions have been taken out by firms that donated to the Vote Leave campaign, but did not donate directly to the Johnson leadership campaign.

Currently, £8,274,350,000 (£8.3 billion) of aggregate short positions has been taken out by hedge funds connected to the Prime Minister and his Vote Leave campaign, run by his advisor Dominic Cummings, on a ‘no deal’ Brexit.

It would be so pleasant to fuck these people up by revoking Article 50.

[Greater Loegria]

Brexit is more about freedom. Wanting to get rid of the nhs, and the taxes that come with it, is self-interest.

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions, and your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

It’s unfortunate that many brexiteers show a total lack of political and ideological nuance towards Brexit.

[True Refuge]

Brexit is more about freedom. Wanting to get rid of the nhs, and the taxes that come with it, is self-interest.

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions, and your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

Also noting a true AnCap wouldn’t approve of smoking since breathing carcinogens at other people would be breaking the NAP.

Then again, GVH seems to have transcended beyond the so very clearly restrictive AnCap philosophy.

[Salandriagado]

Surprising absolutely no one with a working fucking brain the yellowhammer report shows that NI stands to be absolutely fucked in a no deal brexit

Also "‘I don’t care if Northern Ireland falls into the f@@king sea’."

To be fair, falling into the see sounds less unpleasant than being stuck with Cummings.

[Salandriagado]

Imagine pretending to be vaguely nationalist, then thinking that paying a bit more tax is a bad tradeoff for protecting the vulnerable and key workers, rubbing your hands at the prospect of damage to infrastructure and key institutions and hoping they'll collapse just because you personally don't need them.

National interest my arse.

National interest? I'm gone if it's too shit.

Well, go, then, and stop trying to fuck the rest of us over before you do.

[Salandriagado]

Noise.

Do you think that the smoking ban would have occurred if doctors had kept their gobs shut?

There is no restriction on what you can put in your own body. There's a restriction on what you can do to other people. It's no different to laws against battery.

[Salandriagado]

Oh I forgot the precious precious nhs which both manages to cost 134 billion pounds, but be so cash-strapped it can't afford quite a lot of drugs, is the holy cow. It isn't fit for purpose.

The NHS is a noble enterprise just mismanaged and misadministered. You’re right in the sense that money is poured into it and much of it goes to waste when other things are in wanting however.

It just needs a decent chainsawing.

I remind you again that this is 100% the fault of the Tory party.

[Salandriagado]

“X would not have happened if only the people who are knowledgeable about that sort of thing kept silent”

Maybe X is a good thing, then?

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

It's a restriction on poisoning other people.

[Greater Loegria]

The NHS is a noble enterprise just mismanaged and misadministered. You’re right in the sense that money is poured into it and much of it goes to waste when other things are in wanting however.

It just needs a decent chainsawing.

I remind you again that this is 100% the fault of the Tory party.

I have not denied their part in this.

Many problems are internal and structural though. I hear all sorts of anecdotal stories about wards going out and sourcing their own blinds since official suppliers are charging a fortune.

Also the issue of medical tourism and recent arrivals being entitled to use it despite perhaps not having contributed much to it all.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

“X would not have happened if only the people who are knowledgeable about that sort of thing kept silent”

Maybe X is a good thing, then?

How can restricting the freedom to smoke be a good thing?

For anybody else as much as 10 meters away it violates NAP. Violently.

[Dumb Ideologies]

A number of freedoms are also lost or restricted as part of leaving the EU. Fanatical state-shrinking is not in your long-term interest as it's likely to produce a popular backlash against the human misery from destroying social services that people rely on, a backlash that is likely to take far more away from you than what you're currently given up.

Your politics are hollow, impulsive and short-termist. You are taking the first thing that comes to your mind and labelling it "freedom" or "self-interest", neither considering that freedom has a multiplicity of dimensions, and your enlightened self interest is far less black and white.

It's as though you scribbled your entire program on a fag packet many years ago and have only practiced your arguments by repeatedly screaming them at the clouds.

Not a terribly persuasive set of contributions.

It’s unfortunate that many brexiteers show a total lack of political and ideological nuance towards Brexit.

It is indeed.

On both sides of the argument there are intelligent people but they're being drowned out by very loud contingents suffering from one form of Brexit Derangement Syndrome or another.

On one hand there are those liberals for whom Brexit represented a shocking diversion from their Whiggish narrative of Britain's inevitable future as a cosmopolitan, multicultural and increasingly post-national country. Behind much of the smugness and castigation of "Brexidiots" from the worst offenders lies a real fear and panic that history is running away from them and an unwillingness to accept anything other than total revocation to set history back onto its rails.

Similarly, on the Brexit side there are those disillusioned from the system more widely who have taken to Brexit as a "fuck you" to the establishment. They feel like they've finally won something and anyone who doesn't support a pure enough Brexit is trying to steal it from them, but they don't actually understand the details of what they support, like a glory-hunter who has no interest in football but suddenly declares themselves a supporter of Man City. Naturally they completely embarrass themselves in debates, with little contribution other than "ha ha we won, losers".

Each side of course points to the deranged on the other as evidence that the other side just doesn't get it, which is another excuse to bunker down and shout at each other, one hardly needed given the example provided to us by our party-political obsessed "representatives".

The "debate" is increasingly depressing, particularly given that social media draws attention to the most obnoxious voices.

[Ifreann]

How 'bout that disaster capitalism?

It would be so pleasant to fuck these people up by revoking Article 50.

That it would. Labour rather ought to work that into their campaign materials. Boris Johnson's backers have bet billions on Britain failing, something something patriotism, vote Labour.