Hong Kong

[Infected Mushroom]

That’s the point. It’s been part of Chinese dynasties for thousands of years.

The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?

You're doing a great job if so.

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

[Novus America]

It should belong to the Federal Republic of Germany if it wants to be. Not otherwise. Not all historically and ethnically German states are ruled by the Federal Republic of Germany.

Just because a previous government ruled a place does not mean a current government has a right to rule it.

Hong Kong has been continuously Chinese for thousands of years chaining into the present though. That’s the big difference.

Even as a UK colony, the UK forcefully got a lease of Hong Kong, it was never a permanent land grab.

That’s the difference.

Just because a place was part of an area a long time does not mean any government using the name of that place gets to rule it.

It was never part of the PRC before 1997, and never agreed to be ruled by the PRC.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

Congratulations Great One, our sages have discovered the functional equivalent of 1+1 = 2 of East Asian History.

[Pasong Tirad]

Arbitrarily-defined geographic spaces have neither intelligence nor interest. It is the people, the real human beings, who inhabit these places who have social, political, or economic interests.

Now of course I do not speak for anyone but myself, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary I would generally assume it to be against the interests of any given human being to have his or her right to assemble and demonstrate be violently suppressed by an authoritarian government.

bUt WhAt If ThE pRoTeStErS aRe vIoLeNt ToO tHo

[Novus America]

No it hasn't. China's borders have always been fluid through different dynasties, Guangdong wasn't properly sinicised until the Sui and Tang dynasties. Yet beyond that HK wasn't a thing before the British built it. Regardless, there's no universal law that hold a line in the sand as more important as separate values.



Actually HK island was in perpetuity, the New Territories were on a lease.



Except all your points are wrong.

That’s the point. It’s been part of Chinese dynasties for thousands of years.

Those dynasties are dead and gone.

[Tuthina]

The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?

You're doing a great job if so.

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

Unless you happen to live south of Boundary Street, that is. When the deal is altered in the 80s, quite a few people booked it as well, showing about how welcomed that change of arrangement was.

That’s the point. It’s been part of Chinese dynasties for thousands of years.

I hereby invoke my ancient claims to all of Indonesia as it has been populated by Austronesians for thousands of years.

I mean, Indonesia's still populated by Austronesians today.

[Sundiata]

The people of Hong Kong are blessed and deserve assistance, militaristic if need be, in their struggle against communism.

[Bombadil]

The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?

You're doing a great job if so.

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

[Pasong Tirad]

I hereby invoke my ancient claims to all of Indonesia as it has been populated by Austronesians for thousands of years.

I mean, Indonesia's still populated by Austronesians today.

Yes, that's my point. Chuck in Malaysia in there too.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The people of Hong Kong are blessed and deserve assistance, militaristic if need be, in their struggle against communism.

You mean against Imperialism, Colonialism, Authoritarianism and Tyranny?

[Novus America]

Unless you happen to be born south of the Boundary Street, or is among the 50 thousand families that manage to get British Citizenship, I guess.


There is never a duty of loyalty to the state. If anything, the movement has shown many that maybe it's for the best that Hong Kong should no longer be part of China, or at least, this China.

I don’t agree. It will always be in Hong Kong’s interest to be part of a great power.

So then you are saying it benefited say Poland to be ruled by the Russian Empire and Nazi Germany just because it was part of a “great power”? So a great power gets to conquer at will?

[Infected Mushroom]

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

So a great power gets to conquer at will?

Technically yes, until it meets a bigger fish.

[Bombadil]

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

There's acceptance of China, there is no acceptance of the CCP.

[Novus America]

The people of Hong Kong are blessed and deserve assistance, militaristic if need be, in their struggle against communism.

You mean against Imperialism, Colonialism, Authoritarianism and Tyranny?

Yeah, as much as I despise Marxism and the no true Marxist thing, the CCP is “Communist” in name only.

[Tuthina]

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to not be part of China to me, really. Then again, given your track record, I think it's only reasonable to doubt that actually being the case.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t agree. It will always be in Hong Kong’s interest to be part of a great power.

So then you are saying it benefited say Poland to be ruled by the Russian Empire and Nazi Germany just because it was part of a “great power”? So a great power gets to conquer at will?

I don’t know

Not familiar with Polish history

Why bring it up?

[Novus America]

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

Acceptance of China yes. CCP tyranny no.
There can be and is a China without CCP tyranny.

[Novus America]

So then you are saying it benefited say Poland to be ruled by the Russian Empire and Nazi Germany just because it was part of a “great power”? So a great power gets to conquer at will?

I don’t know

Not familiar with Polish history

Why bring it up?

To prove rule by a “great power” does not necessarily benefit the people.

[Pasong Tirad]

Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.

What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.

It's unacceptable.

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

That's not what Bombadil's saying why the fuck do you insist on twisting people's words up?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Acceptance of China yes. CCP tyranny no.
There can be and is a China without CCP tyranny.

Speaking of which

What if loyalty to a nation and loyalty to an unjust, terrorising, ethnic cleansing, imperialist-colonialist reich are two different things?

Still haven't got an answer for this. <.>

[Genivaria]

The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?

You're doing a great job if so.

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

And as the CCP openly says they represent the Communist Party NOT all the people of China.
That's why the PLA swears loyalty to the CCP and not to China.

if anything the CCP are closer to illegitimate occupiers, at least the ROC says they represent CHINESE people and not just a single party.

[Bombadil]

There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.

That's not what Bombadil's saying why the fuck do you insist on twisting people's words up?

I really hope it's not English he's teaching because reading comprehension is not a strong point for him.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

And as the CCP openly says they represent the Communist Party NOT all the people of China.
That's why the PLA swears loyalty to the CCP and not to China.

That's because the Army of the Party cannot be allowed to start pondering the fundamental question: "Does the CPC equivocate to China the national concept?"
China is CPC's plaything, Chinese nationalism is convenient for the Party Heads to project their power. Anybody else who imagines otherwise are deluding themselves.

[Infected Mushroom]

Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.

And as the CCP openly says they represent the Communist Party NOT all the people of China.
That's why the PLA swears loyalty to the CCP and not to China.

if anything the CCP are closer to illegitimate occupiers, at least the ROC says they represent CHINESE people and not just a single party.

In the minds of most Chinese in the mainland, there’s no difference between China and the PRC