Suicide attempts by refugees in Manus after Aussie elections

[Shrillland]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia

Their parameters are similar to most other countries as to who can seek asylum and why, but it's the idea of keeping those who come by boat offshore at Manus, Nauru, and Christmas Island that sets them apart from other nations. They stick them on the island processing and detention centres while their visas get processed, which can take years if it happens at all.

Do they stick everyone in those islands or just these particular groups who I can’t help but notice are Muslim? And mind you, I can understand if their countries of provenance worry Australia. I’m just curious if this is the modus operandi for relocating all asylum seekers.

No, just those that come as "boat people". Which are, indeed, primarily from the Mideast, Sri Lanka, and PNG itself. Those that come by plane can live in Australia itself while waiting for their processing to be completed.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Do they stick everyone in those islands or just these particular groups who I can’t help but notice are Muslim? And mind you, I can understand if their countries of provenance worry Australia. I’m just curious if this is the modus operandi for relocating all asylum seekers.

No, just those that come as "boat people". Which are, indeed, primarily from the Mideast, Sri Lanka, and PNG itself. Those that come by plane can live in Australia itself while waiting for their processing to be completed.

What’s the reason, if you know, for such a difference in treatment? Is it financial? I’m not going to give my opinion on Australian asylum seeking because I know next to nothing about it but I can’t help but wonder about this departure in location.

[Kowani]

Still better than being stuck in PNG. Although my preferred solution is integrating them into the cities, seeing as the number is still remarkably small.

Aside from tacitly encouraging other refugees (and "refugees"), there are costs with integrating them into cities to ensure that they become valued additions to society, instead of a poor ethnic ghetto.

As I've said, if they're willing to work regionally or have valuable skills, by all means, bring them in.

Because clearly, these desperate people, many of whom have no access to news media, are totally going to be dissuaded by the waiting period. The entire “encouraging” argument is bullshit.

Yes, costs. Which if properly paid, tend to be paid back over time.

[New haven america]

It seems you don't understand what a refugee is...

If they can't return home, they can settle down in Papua New Guinea. Unless there is some kind of restriction arbitrarily imposed by the Australian government to keep the refugees in the detention centers (red tape, wouldn't put it past them), it's up to the refugees.

Yes, it is, and they chose to go to Australia.

[New haven america]

I don’t know if there is a restriction or not, but PNG isn’t exactly anyone’s idea of a good place to be.

A better way would be to deport them to Japan because their population is shrinking but they don't accept refugees. We have no choice except sending them to Europe or North America.

So are most countries in the developed world, yet they still think they're allowed to be picky about who they take in (The US included).

But Japan wouldn't take them even if it benefitted them: They have a closeted nationalist as their leader, are terrified of change despite half of their culture coming from other nations, and are one of the most atheistic cultures in the world. Good luck.

[New haven america]

Australia is probably the only other English-speaking nation that has politics as fundamentally broken and rotten as the United States'.

The Australian concentration camps are an atrocity that keeps being overlooked.

South Africa and Zimbabwe would like to have a word with you~

[Shrillland]

No, just those that come as "boat people". Which are, indeed, primarily from the Mideast, Sri Lanka, and PNG itself. Those that come by plane can live in Australia itself while waiting for their processing to be completed.

What’s the reason, if you know, for such a difference in treatment? Is it financial? I’m not going to give my opinion on Australian asylum seeking because I know next to nothing about it but I can’t help but wonder about this departure in location.

To an extent. For the most part, most PMs since Keating have used the system to try to deter people from coming as refugees. Also, there's a lot of people in the country itself that don't want them for a whole host of reasons, racism being one of the biggest.

[Arlenton]

If they can't return home, they can settle down in Papua New Guinea. Unless there is some kind of restriction arbitrarily imposed by the Australian government to keep the refugees in the detention centers (red tape, wouldn't put it past them), it's up to the refugees.

Yes, it is, and they chose to go to Australia.

And it's up to Australia to decide to let them in. Looks like they don't want them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What’s the reason, if you know, for such a difference in treatment? Is it financial? I’m not going to give my opinion on Australian asylum seeking because I know next to nothing about it but I can’t help but wonder about this departure in location.

To an extent. For the most part, most PMs since Keating have used the system to try to deter people from coming as refugees. Also, there's a lot of people in the country itself that don't want them for a whole host of reasons, racism being one of the biggest.

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

[Pasong Tirad]

To an extent. For the most part, most PMs since Keating have used the system to try to deter people from coming as refugees. Also, there's a lot of people in the country itself that don't want them for a whole host of reasons, racism being one of the biggest.

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

Even more racism, probably. Never heard of Aussies having a problem with Afrikaaners coming to Australia.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

Even more racism, probably. Never heard of Aussies having a problem with Afrikaaners coming to Australia.

Those probably fly in and have money. Which is why I asked about whether it is standard or no to relocate asylum seekers to these islands or is it just the boat people. As Shrillland said, it’s just the boat people and there’s no vested interest in allowing them in either way. Since he also mentioned there were other reasons, I was curious as to what those were.

[Shrillland]

To an extent. For the most part, most PMs since Keating have used the system to try to deter people from coming as refugees. Also, there's a lot of people in the country itself that don't want them for a whole host of reasons, racism being one of the biggest.

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

Not too much else, really. Just the normal stuff about being a drain on resources and the like.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

Not too much else, really. Just the normal stuff about being a drain on resources and the like.

Ok. At least it’s not like the real reasons are being obfuscated. On the same token, I understand that countries aren’t obliged to grant asylum to just anyone.

[Costa Fierro]

The Labor opposition had promised to accept New Zealand's offer to resettle 150 refugees from the islands if they won government last Saturday.

Oh that must have been related to the issue on Nauru that I vaguely remember was a thing.

Even more racism, probably. Never heard of Aussies having a problem with Afrikaaners coming to Australia.

Afrikaners generally do not turn up on a rickety boat expecting to be let in.

[Turbofolkia]

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

Even more racism, probably. Never heard of Aussies having a problem with Afrikaaners coming to Australia.

No. Australia has had a very generous refugee program going back since 1945. I certainly wouldn't be living here if it wasn't for it. Indeed, over 33% of Australians were born overseas, which is one of the highest in the world, much higher than places like Canada, the US, Germany etc. This is probably the most multicultural country in the world, so to say the tough stance on boat people boils down to racism, either from the public or from the state, is quite a simplistic look on things.

There's just a perception within the community that since the people who arrive by boat generally come from places like Iran, who then fly to Indonesia on a tourist visa and pay a people smuggler thousands of dollars to be sailed to Australian waters, they are "queue jumpers" who don't deserve to be let in. I'm not saying I agree with that perception or that it's justified, but that's the perception that exists towards people arriving by boat, as opposed to refugees in camps or legal migrants etc.

[Shrillland]

Even more racism, probably. Never heard of Aussies having a problem with Afrikaaners coming to Australia.

No. Australia has had a very generous refugee program going back since 1945. I certainly wouldn't be living here if it wasn't for it. Indeed, over 33% of Australians were born overseas, which is one of the highest in the world, much higher than places like Canada, the US, Germany etc. This is probably the most multicultural country in the world, so to say the tough stance on boat people boils down to racism, either from the public or from the state, is quite a simplistic look on things.

There's just a perception within the community that since the people who arrive by boat generally come from places like Iran, who then fly to Indonesia on a tourist visa and pay a people smuggler thousands of dollars to be sailed to Australian waters, they are "queue jumpers" who don't deserve to be let in. I'm not saying I agree with that perception or that it's justified, but that's the perception that exists towards people arriving by boat, as opposed to refugees in camps or legal migrants etc.

So, just like here in the US...

[Turbofolkia]

No. Australia has had a very generous refugee program going back since 1945. I certainly wouldn't be living here if it wasn't for it. Indeed, over 33% of Australians were born overseas, which is one of the highest in the world, much higher than places like Canada, the US, Germany etc. This is probably the most multicultural country in the world, so to say the tough stance on boat people boils down to racism, either from the public or from the state, is quite a simplistic look on things.

There's just a perception within the community that since the people who arrive by boat generally come from places like Iran, who then fly to Indonesia on a tourist visa and pay a people smuggler thousands of dollars to be sailed to Australian waters, they are "queue jumpers" who don't deserve to be let in. I'm not saying I agree with that perception or that it's justified, but that's the perception that exists towards people arriving by boat, as opposed to refugees in camps or legal migrants etc.

So, just like here in the US...

I'm not as aware about the situation in the US, but very few people arrive here by boat anyway. It wasn't even a major issue this election, like it was in 2013 or 2001.

[Dazchan]

These offshore detention centres are an embarrassment to Australia, and should not exist. But they were also the brainchild of our current Prime Minister in his previous role of Minister for Immigration, and he’s so proud of it that he gave himself a trophy for it, so I can’t see anything changing.

[Mostrov]

‎

[Turbofolkia]

These offshore detention centres are an embarrassment to Australia, and should not exist. But they were also the brainchild of our current Prime Minister in his previous role of Minister for Immigration, and he’s so proud of it that he gave himself a trophy for it, so I can’t see anything changing.

Well, offshore detention was really the brainchild of John Howard and the then Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock. Scott Morrison as Immigration Minister under Tony Abbott simply reimplemented the suite of policies known as the Pacific Solution that were relaxed under Rudd and Gillard.

[Duhon]

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair

By letting in 'boat people' you are de facto encouraging people smuggling (which is illegal) and going to cause deaths. How many dead have there been since the Pacific Solution has been announced?

A total of 2,832 migrants died on the Central Mediterranean route between Libya and Italy in 2017, down from 4,581 in 2016.

I don't understand the progressive perspective on this: they want less enforcement of common norms, rather than simply saying that the law or norm should be removed entirely. It worries me that these sort of people have the ability to vote.

I for one want humanitarian considerations to enter the picture, and the hell that's been going on on those detention camps down under -- that's the precise opposite of "humanitarian".

[Costa Fierro]

These offshore detention centres are an embarrassment to Australia, and should not exist. But they were also the brainchild of our current Prime Minister in his previous role of Minister for Immigration, and he’s so proud of it that he gave himself a trophy for it, so I can’t see anything changing.

Well, offshore detention was really the brainchild of John Howard and the then Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock. Scott Morrison as Immigration Minister under Tony Abbott simply reimplemented the suite of policies known as the Pacific Solution that were relaxed under Rudd and Gillard.

"Pacific Solution". That sounds morbid.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I was wondering about the racism aspect, yes. But what are other reasons for not wanting these asylum seekers in Australia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair

By letting in 'boat people' you are de facto encouraging people smuggling (which is illegal) and going to cause deaths. How many dead have there been since the Pacific Solution has been announced?

A total of 2,832 migrants died on the Central Mediterranean route between Libya and Italy in 2017, down from 4,581 in 2016.

I don't understand the progressive perspective on this: they want less enforcement of common norms, rather than simply saying that the law or norm should be removed entirely. It worries me that these sort of people have the ability to vote.

I can’t comment much, I was just wondering at how these asylum seekers are treated so differently to other asylum seekers and why.

[Nakena]

Well, offshore detention was really the brainchild of John Howard and the then Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock. Scott Morrison as Immigration Minister under Tony Abbott simply reimplemented the suite of policies known as the Pacific Solution that were relaxed under Rudd and Gillard.

"Pacific Solution". That sounds morbid.

It's actually the name of it

[Duhon]

"Pacific Solution". That sounds morbid.

It's actually the name of it

Definitely not trying to invoke that other Solution at all. No, not at all.