Free association and the inevitability of Communism

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Again I have not supported bombing DPRK. And again, you have not shown how you can both support the tyrants of the government and their methods and somehow expect the people to be able to do anything to push for change.

I wouldn’t mind if methods were taken to subvert them, such as through an information war, once the people themselves are in good condition, provided that said information supported direct worker’s democracy.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Again I have not supported bombing DPRK. And again, you have not shown how you can both support the tyrants of the government and their methods and somehow expect the people to be able to do anything to push for change.

I wouldn’t mind if methods were taken to subvert them, such as through an information war, once the people themselves are in good condition, provided that said information supported direct worker’s democracy.

This contradicts your previous statement that DPRK is totally in the right for imprisoning and executing those that disagree by even an inch. Your feelings towards DPRK lack any consistency or conviction. Once again, how is a direct workers democracy even plausible in a state run by hereditary torslitsrian dictatorship? How can you support such an institution based on your own claimed ideologies?

[Socialist Workers Combine]

This contradicts your previous statement that DPRK is totally in the right for imprisoning and executing those that disagree by even an inch.

I never said that. I simply compared it with US prison for black people.

Once again, how is a direct workers democracy even plausible in a state run by hereditary torslitsrian dictatorship?

Obviously they will not be in a good condition for direct democracy if they are not well off materially. China has improved conditions considerably. They are if anything more prepared for worker’s democracy.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

This contradicts your previous statement that DPRK is totally in the right for imprisoning and executing those that disagree by even an inch.

I never said that. I simply compared it with US prison for black people.

Once again, how is a direct workers democracy even plausible in a state run by hereditary torslitsrian dictatorship?

Obviously they will not be in a good condition for direct democracy if they are not well off materially. China has improved conditions considerably. They are if anything more prepared for worker’s democracy.

Which is an utterly shit and not at all serious comparison by any means. No matter how hard and desperately you disengeniously try to make it so. Just stop.

Again, the fault is their own. Not the US. Please elaborate how a totalitarian hereditary dictatorship that cruelty tortures and murders those that dont conform is ripe for a democracy.

Not to mention you...did show support for their killing and persecution of opposes.

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Please elaborate how a totalitarian hereditary dictatorship that cruelty tortures and murders those that dont conform is ripe for a democracy.

I was talking about China. NK could potentially become more like China with US cooperation. It may not be what I consider ideal, but it’s there.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Please elaborate how a totalitarian hereditary dictatorship that cruelty tortures and murders those that dont conform is ripe for a democracy.

I was talking about China. NK could potentially become more like China with US cooperation. T may not be what I consider ideal, but it’s there.

China is a capitalist economy by all measures. How the hell is them becoming more like China better according to your ideology or, for like the 5th time, in anyway possible under the current system?

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Which is an utterly shit and not at all serious comparison by any means. No matter how hard and desperately you disengeniously try to make it so. Just stop.

I’m not going to stop pointing out your treatment of the blacks, you’re just going to have to get over it.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Which is an utterly shit and not at all serious comparison by any means. No matter how hard and desperately you disengeniously try to make it so. Just stop.

I’m not going to stop pointing out your treatment of the blacks, you’re just going to have to get over it.

No I'm not, considering you are equating the us prison system with the concentration camps of DPRK and the torture and mistreatment found in them. You are making a disgustingly inaccurate comparison that is not at all legitimate or accurate. No matter how much you try to blow it off, this is the fucking case.

Feel free to just dismiss me as some racist though with no evidence or support tho. It looks really good, no doubt.

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Feel free to just dismiss me as some racist though with no evidence or support tho. It looks really good, no doubt.

I don’t have to dismiss you as a racist, you’ve made that apparent yourself.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Feel free to just dismiss me as some racist though with no evidence or support tho. It looks really good, no doubt.

I don’t have to dismiss you as a racist, you’ve made hat apparent yourself.

Yes, my admittance that the US incarceration and law enforcement has a race problem but stating that this isnt at all comparable to the brutality of DPRK concentration camps makes me racist

What a joke of an argument.

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Yes, my admittance that the US incarceration and law enforcement has a race problem but stating that this isnt at all comparable to the brutality of DPRK concentration camps makes me racist

I’m glad to hear you admit it, your next step is to become a socialist.
It is likely NK will become less brutal in time. If not it would be overthrown by it’s own.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Yes, my admittance that the US incarceration and law enforcement has a race problem but stating that this isnt at all comparable to the brutality of DPRK concentration camps makes me racist

I’m glad to hear you admit it, your next step is to become a socialist.
It is likely NK will become less brutal in time. If not it would be overthrown by it’s own.

Whatever you say bud. This is really pathetic. Rather than actually making an argument and debate, you try to just decry me as racist despite facts to the contrary. Do whatever helps you feel better about yourself and sleep at night. Be warned however your blatant and laughable attempts at framing me as some racist can be construed as trolling in lieu of any attempt to actually countering my statements that the concentration camps of DPRK are not the same as the race problem.in American prisons.

[Petrolheadia]

Feel free to just dismiss me as some racist though with no evidence or support tho. It looks really good, no doubt.

I don’t have to dismiss you as a racist, you’ve made that apparent yourself.

I guess black people are racist towards themselves by committing crimes.

[UniversalCommons]

None of the above.

[Nogodia]

Yes, my admittance that the US incarceration and law enforcement has a race problem but stating that this isnt at all comparable to the brutality of DPRK concentration camps makes me racist

I’m glad to hear you admit it, your next step is to become a socialist.
It is likely NK will become less brutal in time. If not it would be overthrown by it’s own.

...
Just no.

[Anagonia]

You ever listen to people debate discrimination to the effect that we can’t refuse a sale to Nazi Germany if we can’t deny black people service (for no reason)? Because “principles”. There’s a disease called idealism, particularly of the more bourgeoisie kind, and they have it. You take made-up principles to the nth level instead of using discretion (if not materialism/empiricism) and end up standing up for racism. “Free association” becomes “I will stand up for racism and the white supremacy of your private colonial fiefdom.” That’s dialectics - you go too far it becomes it’s opposite.

Dubious to begin with - no one suggests obvious harmful criminals should associate, but apparently it’s one too far to suggests the somehow less obvious KKK not associate. And I don’t oppose association - I want worker’s democracy. Stand up for proletarian rights and association - not racist private interest.

Private interest usually opposes proletarian association, such as unions, and in Brazil often won’t work with worker-managed factories out of principle (until it is too large). They subvert democracy for money, oppose a minimum wage raise, support wars and attack minorities (Chick fil a). So why do you support one over another, especially for you who the plantation owners are not your class? Remember, the USSR subverted worker’s democracy too, it is not the same thing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pCnEAH5wCzo

Now remember, Communism and Communist/Socialist societies accept *EVERYONE*....except those that disagree with the party, and since that society tends to breed tyrants, genocide is inevitable.

[The Feecktopian USSR]

I put something here

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Now remember, Communism and Communist/Socialist societies accept *EVERYONE*....except those that disagree with the party, and since that society tends to breed tyrants, genocide is inevitable.

Even the USSR disavowed Stalin and Mao and tried to reform.

[Anarchitaria]

You ever listen to people debate discrimination to the effect that we can’t refuse a sale to Nazi Germany if we can’t deny black people service (for no reason)? Because “principles”. There’s a disease called idealism, particularly of the more bourgeoisie kind, and they have it. You take made-up principles to the nth level instead of using discretion (if not materialism/empiricism) and end up standing up for racism. “Free association” becomes “I will stand up for racism and the white supremacy of your private colonial fiefdom.” That’s dialectics - you go too far it becomes it’s opposite.

Dubious to begin with - no one suggests obvious harmful criminals should associate, but apparently it’s one too far to suggests the somehow less obvious KKK not associate. And I don’t oppose association - I want worker’s democracy. Stand up for proletarian rights and association - not racist private interest.

Private interest usually opposes proletarian association, such as unions, and in Brazil often won’t work with worker-managed factories out of principle (until it is too large). They subvert democracy for money, oppose a minimum wage raise, support wars and attack minorities (Chick fil a). So why do you support one over another, especially for you who the plantation owners are not your class? Remember, the USSR subverted worker’s democracy too, it is not the same thing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pCnEAH5wCzo

Now remember, Communism and Communist/Socialist societies accept *EVERYONE*....except those that disagree with the party, and since that society tends to breed tyrants, genocide is inevitable.

Not exactly.

Say if an anarchist revolt were to occur in a city (like in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War) and successfully consolidate control of the region, anyone who disagrees with our ideology (in this case, libertarian communism) would be left alone. If they posed a legitimate threat to the revolution, however, then a militia would have to step in.

The reality that you described, however, existed in the Soviet Union for decades, of which I’m not a fan of.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Now remember, Communism and Communist/Socialist societies accept *EVERYONE*....except those that disagree with the party, and since that society tends to breed tyrants, genocide is inevitable.

Not exactly.

Say if an anarchist revolt were to occur in a city (like in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War) and successfully consolidate control of the region, anyone who disagrees with our ideology (in this case, libertarian communism) would be left alone. If they posed a legitimate threat to the revolution, however, then a militia would have to step in.

The reality that you described, however, existed in the Soviet Union for decades, of which I’m not a fan of.

So....basically if they stay quiet they're fine but if they gain too much popularity or want to actually enact change that goes against the party, even if its popularly supported, you say yourself it needs to be put down with force and violence. How....is that any better than the Soviet Union that you claim to not like?

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Not exactly.

Say if an anarchist revolt were to occur in a city (like in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War) and successfully consolidate control of the region, anyone who disagrees with our ideology (in this case, libertarian communism) would be left alone. If they posed a legitimate threat to the revolution, however, then a militia would have to step in.

The reality that you described, however, existed in the Soviet Union for decades, of which I’m not a fan of.

Anarchists have had their share of repression and execution. Likewise the Mennonites of Ukraine were tormented and robbed by Makhno's forces.

[Anarchitaria]

Not exactly.

Say if an anarchist revolt were to occur in a city (like in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War) and successfully consolidate control of the region, anyone who disagrees with our ideology (in this case, libertarian communism) would be left alone. If they posed a legitimate threat to the revolution, however, then a militia would have to step in.

The reality that you described, however, existed in the Soviet Union for decades, of which I’m not a fan of.

So....basically if they stay quiet they're fine but if they gain too much popularity or want to actually enact change that goes against the party, even if its popularly supported, you say yourself it needs to be put down with force and violence. How....is that any better than the Soviet Union that you claim to not like?

By then, if you have an anarchist society, what can they offer you when you already have everything you need and want? Destroy the participatory democracy? They can try to enact change but that won’t do much.

If they start coercing others to submit themselves to their newfound hierarchy, then of course action must be taken. But that’s particularly hard to image in itself when everyone wields power.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

So....basically if they stay quiet they're fine but if they gain too much popularity or want to actually enact change that goes against the party, even if its popularly supported, you say yourself it needs to be put down with force and violence. How....is that any better than the Soviet Union that you claim to not like?

By then, if you have an anarchist society, what can they offer you when you already have everything you need and want? Destroy the participatory democracy? They can try to enact change but that won’t do much.

If they start coercing others to submit themselves to their newfound hierarchy, then of course action must be taken. But that’s particularly hard to image in itself when everyone wields power.

And what if it isn't a default utopia like you claim it will be and it in fact does not give them every single thing they need and want?

[Anarchitaria]

Not exactly.

Say if an anarchist revolt were to occur in a city (like in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War) and successfully consolidate control of the region, anyone who disagrees with our ideology (in this case, libertarian communism) would be left alone. If they posed a legitimate threat to the revolution, however, then a militia would have to step in.

The reality that you described, however, existed in the Soviet Union for decades, of which I’m not a fan of.

Anarchists have had their share of repression and execution. Likewise the Mennonites of Ukraine were tormented and robbed by Makhno's forces.

The large portion of the Catholic clergy in Spain had supported Franco and the Nationalist forces and were a legitimate military threat. It wasn’t exactly a pretty scene, but it happened.

The Mennonites in Ukraine were “affluent peasants”, from what I recall. Revolutions always have their downsides.

[Anarchitaria]

By then, if you have an anarchist society, what can they offer you when you already have everything you need and want? Destroy the participatory democracy? They can try to enact change but that won’t do much.

If they start coercing others to submit themselves to their newfound hierarchy, then of course action must be taken. But that’s particularly hard to image in itself when everyone wields power.

And what if it isn't a default utopia like you claim it will be and it in fact does not give them every single thing they need and want?

. . . then that wouldn’t be an anarchist revolution?