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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Don't give up hope yet. There's still time.

Oh? :twisted:

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:10 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh? :twisted:

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join third positionist gang instead.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:10 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It's not even freedom in it's ideal state for me either.

My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:11 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join third positionist gang instead.

That would kind of be a political 180 for me, that's not a very realistic prospect tbh.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16478
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:11 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh? :twisted:

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Trust me, you can’t be worse than my little brother.


Cappuccina wrote:
Kowani wrote:Hmm…Nah.




As much as I’ve tried, I couldn’t bring you over to the left. Sad.

Aww...oh well, a brief moment of agreement is pleasant every now and then nonetheless.

It is. It was moreso the concept of the “horseshoe” that I rejected, more than anything else.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:11 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.

At the cost of the environment, happiness, great wars, and colonialism. Let's not pretend this is all sunshine and rainbows.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5704
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:11 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:You failed to notice the "propose solutions" part of my post.

Do those solutions ever actually get passed, though?

Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4457
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:12 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh? :twisted:

Don't get your hopes up though, I'm rather stubborn.

Join us, brother. It’s better here.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:12 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Do those solutions ever actually get passed, though?

Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.

Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt. You can't really legislate anti-corruption, as much as you'd like to be able to.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4457
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Kowani wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Aww...oh well, a brief moment of agreement is pleasant every now and then nonetheless.

It is. It was moreso the concept of the “horseshoe” that I rejected, more than anything else.

Burn the fence down?
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Senator
 
Posts: 3644
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Electic wrote:How were you all introduced to Left Wing ideology?


Figures like Stalin and Pol Pot were always fascinating to me, and I read a little from Proudhon and Marx. I'm not a left-winger though, and leftism isn't that appealing to me.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century
Buddhist Nationalist, Pan-Asianist, Neo-Confucian, Economic Collectivist

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16478
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:13 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:My point exactly. Libertarians would usually repeal restrictions against individual action, but there's no easy transition between what the individual wants and what society wants. Unchecked individualism has cost the West its happiness.

From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.

Ironically, the greatest surge in human prosperity happened when income equality was high, and capitalism checked. (Not like what we have now.)
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Electic
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Electic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:14 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Electic wrote:I encountered Orwell in middle school as well, though that led me down the Ayn Rand path. Now that was a phase :P Would you say you're still libertarian?

How did you get from Orwell to Rand?

I'm still a libertarian, but I'd say I'm no longer a right-wing libertarian. I'm more of a centrist economically these days.


I think because I was already center-right, between Animal Farm and 1984 and other non-fiction books I read at the time, I went to teetering on the verge of AnCap-dom. Mellowed out after High School. I'd say I advocate a center-right lifestyle for myself, but am more liberal in how I would pursue public policies. Don't really have a label for it yet *shrug*.
I'm a proud member of the Dark Light Family

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11237
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:14 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:The scale is different, though, and there are more checks on the hurt that is caused with a freer society.
Consider a website with 499 normal users and one administrator who holds the ability to ban users and modify the website. If that administrator goes rogue, nothing can be done to stop them.
However, if the website has 450 normal users and 50 higher-ranking people who share powers among themselves and can be recalled by the users, a single rogue administrator can be easily dealt with because their power is checked by the users and other administrators. Sure, it takes more time and work to manage this system, but it massively decreases the risk of the website being ruined.

Why not have a hierarchy involving several layers of administration? Dictatorship and democracy are not the only options.

That's the second option, the point being that there are multiple people who can check each other on each layer. That part is similar to NS's leadership layout.
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Imagine unironically thinking the States can be used as an example of freedom in government.

Then what is an example?

There is none that is perfect. Some Western European countries come somewhat closer than the United States, since they have less police brutality, undemocratic means of electing officials, etc. They are still flawed, in particular with surveillance and restrictions on free speech.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11237
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:16 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.

Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt.

Odd, then, that the Soviet Union was notoriously corrupt.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5704
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:16 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Sometimes. We're in an era where our government is corrupt, so probably not as much today. Our government needs reform, and our system needs to be repaired, but that is no reason to give up on freedom.

Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt. You can't really legislate anti-corruption, as much as you'd like to be able to.

How? How does freedom corrupt the government? From what I can tell, it tends to be unfree nations that have the most corrupt governments, such as North Korea.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:16 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Why not have a hierarchy involving several layers of administration? Dictatorship and democracy are not the only options.

That's the second option, the point being that there are multiple people who can check each other on each layer. That part is similar to NS's leadership layout.
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Then what is an example?

There is none that is perfect. Some Western European countries come somewhat closer than the United States, since they have less police brutality, undemocratic means of electing officials, etc. They are still flawed, in particular with surveillance and restrictions on free speech.

Western Europe is more hierarchical than the US, and in that sense, less free. The restrictions they have are the reason they are so great. My ideal society rests somewhere in between Dengism and the Nordic Model.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11237
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:17 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:That's the second option, the point being that there are multiple people who can check each other on each layer. That part is similar to NS's leadership layout.

There is none that is perfect. Some Western European countries come somewhat closer than the United States, since they have less police brutality, undemocratic means of electing officials, etc. They are still flawed, in particular with surveillance and restrictions on free speech.

Western Europe is more hierarchical than the US, and in that sense, less free. The restrictions they have are the reason they are so great. My ideal society rests somewhere in between Dengism and the Nordic Model.

Hierarchy does not necessarily mean something is less free. In the metaphor that I proposed, the form with more hierarchical steps (and hence less of a power disparity between layers) was more free.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Electic
Envoy
 
Posts: 337
Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Electic » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:That's the second option, the point being that there are multiple people who can check each other on each layer. That part is similar to NS's leadership layout.

There is none that is perfect. Some Western European countries come somewhat closer than the United States, since they have less police brutality, undemocratic means of electing officials, etc. They are still flawed, in particular with surveillance and restrictions on free speech.

Western Europe is more hierarchical than the US, and in that sense, less free. The restrictions they have are the reason they are so great. My ideal society rests somewhere in between Dengism and the Nordic Model.

That would be too much for me, I'm afraid :p
I'm a proud member of the Dark Light Family

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:18 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt. You can't really legislate anti-corruption, as much as you'd like to be able to.

How? How does freedom corrupt the government? From what I can tell, it tends to be unfree nations that have the most corrupt governments, such as North Korea.

Freedom to fund certain public officials, for one. That's kind of the definition of corruption. Additionally, lack of restrictions on corporations led to the rise of political machines in places like NYC during the Gilded Age. It is in the light of restrictions on those freedoms that prosperity emerged.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
Jean-Paul Sartre
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1616
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Western Europe is more hierarchical than the US, and in that sense, less free. The restrictions they have are the reason they are so great. My ideal society rests somewhere in between Dengism and the Nordic Model.

Hierarchy does not necessarily mean something is less free. In the metaphor that I proposed, the form with more hierarchical steps (and hence less of a power disparity between layers) was more free.

It inherently does. The more distance there is between you and high leadership, the less control you have over your personal life. That's less freedom.
Luddite, Doomer, Atheist, Meritocratic Elitist
Politicscales
American exceptionalism, secularism, education, meritocracy in government, the electoral college, elitism, hierarchy, progressive income tax, universal health care, strong borders, GSRM rights, Stoicism, Existentialism
Islam, religion in general, the current state of American democracy, democracy without significant regulation, the free market, the popular vote for president, violence, revolution, hedonism, post-modernism
Unrustle your jimmies

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5704
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:19 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Western Europe is more hierarchical than the US, and in that sense, less free. The restrictions they have are the reason they are so great. My ideal society rests somewhere in between Dengism and the Nordic Model.

Hierarchy does not necessarily mean something is less free. In the metaphor that I proposed, the form with more hierarchical steps (and hence less of a power disparity between layers) was more free.

This ^^
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16478
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:19 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Freedom is the reason the government is corrupt. You can't really legislate anti-corruption, as much as you'd like to be able to.

How? How does freedom corrupt the government? From what I can tell, it tends to be unfree nations that have the most corrupt governments, such as North Korea.

I think you two are looking at different kinds of freedom, at least in regards to corruption.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:From where I'm standing "unchecked individualism" (not accurate btw) has ushered in the greatest period of prosperity humanity has achieved.

At the cost of the environment, happiness, great wars, and colonialism. Let's not pretend this is all sunshine and rainbows.

It's never sunshine and rainbows. Great wars, misery and colonialism exist in every political system but (with the possible exception of misery) exist to a far lesser extent in liberalism.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11237
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Hierarchy does not necessarily mean something is less free. In the metaphor that I proposed, the form with more hierarchical steps (and hence less of a power disparity between layers) was more free.

It inherently does. The more distance there is between you and high leadership, the less control you have over your personal life. That's less freedom.

Also not necessarily. Some leadership roles could ideally take a hands-off approach.
Of course, that's not really the case with Europe, but that's why I didn't say they were a perfect example, only the best available.
Fun fact: the total insect biomass is estimated to decrease by 2.5% each year. If left unresolved, this could have catastrophic effects on ecosystems around the world.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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