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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:16 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kowani wrote:You’re not an idiot.
But. Essentially, the point is thus-that unless negative results can be seen and linked to a position, rhetoric will do little to any strongly held position.

Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8371
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:22 am

Kowani wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?

The amazon accounts are trying to promote Amazon and make it look good, but they're really only making it look far worse than any anti-Amazon advocate could. The best argument against something is a bad argument for it. QED.
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Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 19 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:24 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Kowani wrote:I’m sorry, what?

The amazon accounts are trying to promote Amazon and make it look good, but they're really only making it look far worse than any anti-Amazon advocate could. The best argument against something is a bad argument for it. QED.

Ahh. Yeah, that’s probably true. There are occasions where I don’t believe that holds true, but at the very least in this case, it does.
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5527
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:24 am

Kowani wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?


Amazon's bots hurts them more than any argument from their opponents ever could.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳
Mahayana Buddhist
Fan of royalism and distributism

User avatar
Soviet Tankistan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 435
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Tankistan » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:54 am

Nakena wrote:
Kowani wrote:You know, if they weren’t really well documented, that would almost be a legitimate point. Almost.


Actually the US supported the Khmer Rogue retaining their seat in the UN during the occupation of Cambodia by Bolshevist Vietnam. (who kicked out Pol Pot because he was too creepy even for them)

The Khmer Rouge only achieved two objectives: widening the Sino-Soviet split and turning Camobia into an absurd hell governed by neither the laws of Marxism-Leninism nor any other naturally sensible or at the least, understandable ideology. Pol Pot was not sane, less so than Mao or US politicians such as Reagan.

North Korea is another great example of a "communist" nation ignoring principles of all other ideologies by adopting an odd and primitivist agenda. The state ideology is Korean fascism with poor replication of 50s-60s Soviet aesthetics. China is merely a more capitalist DPRK, but still like.
☭Welcome to Soviet Tankistan!☭
In Soviet Tankistan, everyone is considered a worker if they contribute. Fascists and terrorists are not welcome.


Humanity, Socialism, Order Political Compass: 8 left and 1 upwards.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16699
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cekoviu » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:44 am

Kowani wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:How so?
At the end of the day, you’ve set a gargantuan amount of people into unemployment. Although spreading it out over several decades (if that was possible) does mitigate some of the damage to the overall society, the individual worker is not as benefited.

Doing it gradually allows for a greater ability to acquire jobs individually, though. it's easier to get a job when there are 50 people looking for one than when there are 500.
Some of the strongest fields right now require an education, however. I would support subsidizing college education for people put out of a job by policies to reduce coal usage, and a universal living wage for students (among other groups).
But coal is not comparable to advertising anyway, due to the vast differences in long-term and multi-species harm that they cause.
…You’re aware of the negative effects advertising has on a society, right?

Advertising has negative effects, but it is total nonsense to say it's anywhere near as damaging in the long term as coal.
RWDT - REST IN POWER
David Hume fangirl, massive Tuvaboo, anti-imperialist, and Castroist socialist. Also a sex-negative SWERF, traditionalist SJW, and Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian.
/tʃɛ'koʊ.vi:.ju:/ (check-OH-vee-you)

User avatar
Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:08 am

Kowani wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
I've seen people unironically defend any tyrannical regime you can think of. All of them. Even the one you're thinking is so over-the-top evil that nobody would support them. I've seen people support them.

Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?

Oh buddy do I have a surprise for you
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:11 am

Trotskylvania wrote:
Kowani wrote:Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?

Oh buddy do I have a surprise for you

And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13792
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:12 am

Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:13 am

Kowani wrote:

And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.

Good. now give yourself over to the will of the dialectic
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North German Realm » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:14 am

Kubra wrote:Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.
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North German Confederation
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User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:14 am

Trotskylvania wrote:
Kowani wrote:And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.

Good. now give yourself over to the will of the dialectic

No. I maintain the power of automation.
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13792
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:21 am

North German Realm wrote:
Kubra wrote:Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.
weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North German Realm » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:23 am

Kubra wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.
weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol
-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16699
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cekoviu » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:31 am

North German Realm wrote:
Kubra wrote: weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol

There's no way to express concepts of communism in satem languages, silly goose
RWDT - REST IN POWER
David Hume fangirl, massive Tuvaboo, anti-imperialist, and Castroist socialist. Also a sex-negative SWERF, traditionalist SJW, and Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian.
/tʃɛ'koʊ.vi:.ju:/ (check-OH-vee-you)

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13792
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:19 pm

North German Realm wrote:
Kubra wrote: weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol
pfffff Occidental enough
If you trade with westerners instead of expelling them u may as well b 1 sry
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5527
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:26 pm

Kowani wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
I've seen people unironically defend any tyrannical regime you can think of. All of them. Even the one you're thinking is so over-the-top evil that nobody would support them. I've seen people support them.

Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?


Khmer ultra-nationalists who think class is mental instead of economic are the real Marxists.
Kubra wrote:Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.


Pol Pol keeping Norodom Sihanouk as ceremonial head of state and having him do PR missions was a masterstroke. Although then again, he couldn't have killed him even if he wanted to, because Beijing supported Norodom.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳
Mahayana Buddhist
Fan of royalism and distributism

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Poverty is on the decline, yes. Good things take time. The very existence of a middle class is proof enough that capitalism does not act as a stranglehold on wealth.


Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.

I want people to be in charge of themselves through individual means, rather than my neighbors deciding what is best for me.


Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.

There are enough self-made folk to show how birthright isn't the most important factor.


Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.
And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:24 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.



Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.



Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.
And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.

A lot of communists have in the past feared economic growth and development, as well as societal welfare programs, would cause their revolution not to occur.

Their ideology is literally predicated on society being as shitty as possible so that people will be desparate enough to adopt their ideas.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26914
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:35 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.



Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.



Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.


Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.


Squashing the rights, liberties, and wellbeing of the worker to make a profit is not something to celebrate.
Communist now and forever.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
She/they every day.
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Torrocca wrote:


Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26914
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:49 pm

Kowani wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”


Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.
Communist now and forever.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
She/they every day.
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36328
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:57 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”


Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.

Alright, so. The actual citation links don’t work (they’re circular), so I can’t really fact check it. But let us assume they are operating in good faith. The number of people in poverty is not quite as important as the rate of decline of poverty. And while I will be the first to say that we have a lot farther to go and we definitely need serious reform, I will also say that poverty (not just extreme poverty but poverty overall) as well as starvation, child malnutrition, general mortality, growth stunting, and disease exposure have fallen for the vast majority of the world.
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Ismail Omar Guelleh re-elected for fifth term as president of Djibouti with more than 98 percent of the vote

“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26914
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:59 pm

Kowani wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.

Alright, so. The actual citation links don’t work (they’re circular), so I can’t really fact check it. But let us assume they are operating in good faith. The number of people in poverty is not quite as important as the rate of decline of poverty. And while I will be the first to say that we have a lot farther to go and we definitely need serious reform, I will also say that poverty (not just extreme poverty but poverty overall) as well as starvation, child malnutrition, general mortality, growth stunting, and disease exposure have fallen for the vast majority of the world.


I have the PDF cited for that specific statistic, which in one of its own citations mentions the $10 a day statistic.
Communist now and forever.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
She/they every day.
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26914
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Communist now and forever.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
She/they every day.
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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