LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[Kowani]

You’re not an idiot.
But. Essentially, the point is thus-that unless negative results can be seen and linked to a position, rhetoric will do little to any strongly held position.

Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?

The amazon accounts are trying to promote Amazon and make it look good, but they're really only making it look far worse than any anti-Amazon advocate could. The best argument against something is a bad argument for it. QED.

[Kowani]

I’m sorry, what?

The amazon accounts are trying to promote Amazon and make it look good, but they're really only making it look far worse than any anti-Amazon advocate could. The best argument against something is a bad argument for it. QED.

Ahh. Yeah, that’s probably true. There are occasions where I don’t believe that holds true, but at the very least in this case, it does.

[Hanafuridake]

Hmm. Maybe. But those weird amazon bots aren't bad results of capitalism, they're more like... bad arguments for capitalism. And y'know what they say, the best argument against something is a bad argument for it.

I’m sorry, what?

Amazon's bots hurts them more than any argument from their opponents ever could.

[Soviet Tankistan]

You know, if they weren’t really well documented, that would almost be a legitimate point. Almost.

Actually the US supported the Khmer Rogue retaining their seat in the UN during the occupation of Cambodia by Bolshevist Vietnam. (who kicked out Pol Pot because he was too creepy even for them)

The Khmer Rouge only achieved two objectives: widening the Sino-Soviet split and turning Camobia into an absurd hell governed by neither the laws of Marxism-Leninism nor any other naturally sensible or at the least, understandable ideology. Pol Pot was not sane, less so than Mao or US politicians such as Reagan.

North Korea is another great example of a "communist" nation ignoring principles of all other ideologies by adopting an odd and primitivist agenda. The state ideology is Korean fascism with poor replication of 50s-60s Soviet aesthetics. China is merely a more capitalist DPRK, but still like.

[Cekoviu]

How so?

At the end of the day, you’ve set a gargantuan amount of people into unemployment. Although spreading it out over several decades (if that was possible) does mitigate some of the damage to the overall society, the individual worker is not as benefited.

Doing it gradually allows for a greater ability to acquire jobs individually, though. it's easier to get a job when there are 50 people looking for one than when there are 500.
Some of the strongest fields right now require an education, however. I would support subsidizing college education for people put out of a job by policies to reduce coal usage, and a universal living wage for students (among other groups).

But coal is not comparable to advertising anyway, due to the vast differences in long-term and multi-species harm that they cause.

…You’re aware of the negative effects advertising has on a society, right?

Advertising has negative effects, but it is total nonsense to say it's anywhere near as damaging in the long term as coal.

[Trotskylvania]

I've seen people unironically defend any tyrannical regime you can think of. All of them. Even the one you're thinking is so over-the-top evil that nobody would support them. I've seen people support them.

Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?

Oh buddy do I have a surprise for you

[Kowani]

Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?

Oh buddy do I have a surprise for you

And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.

[Kubra]

Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

[Trotskylvania]

Oh buddy do I have a surprise for you

And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.

Good. now give yourself over to the will of the dialectic

[North German Realm]

Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.

[Kowani]

And that’s the death of my faith in humanity.

Good. now give yourself over to the will of the dialectic

No. I maintain the power of automation.

[Kubra]

Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.

weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

[North German Realm]

I remember reading some Maoist newspapers that supported this in the period in question. They were a weird read tbh.

weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol

[Cekoviu]

weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol

There's no way to express concepts of communism in satem languages, silly goose

[Kubra]

weirdness and Occidental maoism go hand in hand, think of it as a translation error.

It wasn't Occidental, it was in Farsi lol

pfffff Occidental enough
If you trade with westerners instead of expelling them u may as well b 1 sry

[Hanafuridake]

I've seen people unironically defend any tyrannical regime you can think of. All of them. Even the one you're thinking is so over-the-top evil that nobody would support them. I've seen people support them.

Who the fuck defends Pol Pot or Idi Amin?

Khmer ultra-nationalists who think class is mental instead of economic are the real Marxists.

Tbf during the Khmer rouges heyday folks did defend them. Y'know, not a lot of info was getting out, all people saw was a red regime in a conflict hotspot, and one supported by China. This was maoism's zenith, so a lot of Maoists orgs toed the line to keep up the terms of their franchise agreement.

Pol Pol keeping Norodom Sihanouk as ceremonial head of state and having him do PR missions was a masterstroke. Although then again, he couldn't have killed him even if he wanted to, because Beijing supported Norodom.

[Northern Davincia]

Poverty is on the decline, yes. Good things take time. The very existence of a middle class is proof enough that capitalism does not act as a stranglehold on wealth.

Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.

I want people to be in charge of themselves through individual means, rather than my neighbors deciding what is best for me.

Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.

There are enough self-made folk to show how birthright isn't the most important factor.

Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.
And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.

[Nova Cyberia]

Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.



Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.



Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.
And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.

A lot of communists have in the past feared economic growth and development, as well as societal welfare programs, would cause their revolution not to occur.

Their ideology is literally predicated on society being as shitty as possible so that people will be desparate enough to adopt their ideas.

[Torrocca]

Poverty's hardly on the decline. And don't you dare pull that "extreme poverty chart" bullshit from the World Bank or whatever.



Society isn't a one-way street where you can enjoy the value it gives but then tell it to fuck off when it asks of something from you, bud.



Self-making your own wealth on the back of other people's labor isn't magically any better than being born into wealth accumulated via the same means.

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.

Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

And for every instance where my actions bring no harm to others, society can politely screw off. Individual rights are paramount. Those who make their own wealth have demonstrated the merit and intelligence to do so.

Squashing the rights, liberties, and wellbeing of the worker to make a profit is not something to celebrate.

[Kowani]

Things are objectively getting better and the only one not to notice is you.

Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”

[Torrocca]

Life expectancy and ease of access to schooling is irrelevant to the poverty the overwhelming majority of humanity still faces.

Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”

Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.

[Kowani]

Ignoring the fact that it’s not irrelevant for a moment, cite that claim on the “overwhelming majority of humanity.”

Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.

Alright, so. The actual citation links don’t work (they’re circular), so I can’t really fact check it. But let us assume they are operating in good faith. The number of people in poverty is not quite as important as the rate of decline of poverty. And while I will be the first to say that we have a lot farther to go and we definitely need serious reform, I will also say that poverty (not just extreme poverty but poverty overall) as well as starvation, child malnutrition, general mortality, growth stunting, and disease exposure have fallen for the vast majority of the world.

[Torrocca]

Here's a handy-dandy thing that cites its sources. The most telling statistic in there is the one that says that "80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day." Undoubtedly somebody will try to counter with something from the World Bank or something, but those sources only measure extreme poverty, so they're worthless for understanding the reaches of poverty in general.

Alright, so. The actual citation links don’t work (they’re circular), so I can’t really fact check it. But let us assume they are operating in good faith. The number of people in poverty is not quite as important as the rate of decline of poverty. And while I will be the first to say that we have a lot farther to go and we definitely need serious reform, I will also say that poverty (not just extreme poverty but poverty overall) as well as starvation, child malnutrition, general mortality, growth stunting, and disease exposure have fallen for the vast majority of the world.

I have the PDF cited for that specific statistic, which in one of its own citations mentions the $10 a day statistic.

[Torrocca]

I also have more, including a recent release last year from the World Bank citing that half the world's population lives on less than $5.50 a day.

There's also this much more in-depth article which affirms the statistic of 80% of people living on less than $10 a day.