Is Polygamy Wrong?

[Ifreann]

History, which is to say, what this poster believes should be enforced by law now.

Which poster?

You.

Galloism doesn't believe history should be enforced by law afaik. And if you're talking about me you've got the wrong person.

No, I definitely have the right person.

[Genivaria]

That sounds an awful lot like rape.

Good thing rape's Haraam Consent is still needed.

You just said that 'neither can withhold sex from each other' so you just invalidated consent in the relationship, you just enabled de-facto marital rape.

[Katganistan]

110%. It is wrong. Change My Mind!

If you won't bother to explain yourself, I won't bother to address this.

[Katganistan]

Polygamy is wrong. Two caring parents and their kids are the basic structure of any nation or civilization. Polygamy destroys the most basic and necessary structure for civilization, the nuclear family, by allow one person to have multiple partners.

No, two parents and their kids are not the basic structure of any nation or civilization. It's only 1950s forward in the US that the nuclear family became more prevalent. But here. as elsewhere, the extended family was long the model for childrearing. (Ever heard of Mother-Daughter houses? A home with an apartment for grandparents downstairs, with a two-level apartment for a family with kids upstairs.)

Traditionally, parents, grandparents, parents and children -- perhaps even uncles and aunts -- lived either in the same home (see the Amish with their large, three generation farmhouses, and numerous situations in which families are spread among an apartment building or homes on the same block/development). Grandparents and aunts/uncles helped in the raising of children, and in return, were cared for in their old age.

The only twist on it in polygamy is that multiple adults in the model are having sexual relations with each other. It could be one person having sex with more than one partner, or a number of partners who may engage in intercourse with one or more involved. The real reason it is illegal is because of the difficulty in deciding property rights and who raises which kids, should the relationship fail.

[Katganistan]

POLYGAMY IS WRONG!!!!! Marriage is one man and one woman (or two men or two women) and if a man marries multiple women, he obviously does not love any of them because he is married to multiple and just wants more women!!!!!

So you love only one parent, then?
Only one sibling?
One grandparent? Aunt? Uncle? Cousin?

Or can you love multiple people at the same time?

[Katganistan]

Polygamy doesn't just mean a man marrying multiple women. Besides, that is not true. That is just you saying something and trying to say its a fact.

Look it up!!!!!!!

Perhaps you should look it up, as they are correct in that it is NOT just 1 man and multiple women.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Which poster?

You.

Galloism doesn't believe history should be enforced by law afaik. And if you're talking about me you've got the wrong person.

No, I definitely have the right person.

Good thing rape's Haraam Consent is still needed.

You just said that 'neither can withhold sex from each other' so you just invalidated consent in the relationship, you just enabled de-facto marital rape.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=35484222#p35484222

[Genivaria]

You.

No, I definitely have the right person.

You just said that 'neither can withhold sex from each other' so you just invalidated consent in the relationship, you just enabled de-facto marital rape.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=35484222#p35484222

Rape is Haraam, punishable by 100 lashes. Yes, the spouses are in the wrong for withholding sex for no reason, but at the same time, they can't force themselves on the other.

Then you're contradicting yourself, either they have the right to refuse or you support marital rape.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=35484222#p35484222

Rape is Haraam, punishable by 100 lashes. Yes, the spouses are in the wrong for withholding sex for no reason, but at the same time, they can't force themselves on the other.

Then you're contradicting yourself, either they have the right to refuse or you support marital rape.

There's a reason why I linked y'all's posts to the IDT.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=35484222#p35484222

Rape is Haraam, punishable by 100 lashes. Yes, the spouses are in the wrong for withholding sex for no reason, but at the same time, they can't force themselves on the other.

Then you're contradicting yourself, either they have the right to refuse or you support marital rape.

What does this have to do with polygamy specifically? Marital rape is still a thing in monogamous marriages, and it used to be a lot more common before it was considered a crime (the laws were updated for that in the 20th century, IIRC).

[Threlizdun]

This seems like an arbitrary figure. Are you just choosing a number at random, or are there some reasons for precisely three?

Imagine if you marry with more women and you need to satisfy them in every night. Also women are sensitive to attention and they need it. Same for a woman with more men (for a nimphoman person this may not be a problem). And the population birth rates control.
Each wife must be treated equally, in terms of finance, emotional support and sex. That's not something men who marry to satisfy their sexual desires do.

While egalitarian relations is certainly desirable in polyamorous or polygamous relationships, the fact of the matter is that different people have different needs. Some people have high sexual drives whereas others don't experience sexual attraction altogether. The way in which emotional needs manifest will similarly be different according to the person in question, the needs they are having fulfilled, and the capacity of different people to fulfill those needs.

It is certainly desirable to fulfill your partners needs as effectively as you can, but realistically in any relationship, including monogamous ones, a single person will never be capable of fulfilling all of everyone's needs. And that's okay. Looking to your partner as your one and everything, the thing that makes you whole, is not a realistic approach to fulfilling your needs. You need to also seek fulfillment of your needs from friends, family, therapists, the work you do, and all sorts of other avenues in life. Your romantic partner should be someone with whom you feel your life is meaningfully enriched by sharing a romantic connection with, but it is not a means of attaining all your needs. This is in fact one of the strengths that poly relationships can offer; the recognition that if a partner is unable to fulfill certain needs of yours, that you may be encouraged to seek out others who are able to do so for you. It's an understanding and celebration of the fact that every relationship you have with each person is different and unique, and that the differences do not mean that a certain relationship is inferior to or less significant than another, merely that it is different and seeking something which that particular person offers you.

There are many reasons for a limit to almost 3 (or even 4 in special cases). I present some of them here.

If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. A tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing.

Children often struggle when their father is absent in their lives. In a poly family, the children are not missing a father. Quite the contrary, in such a household they may see all the men responsible in raising them as their fathers or father figures. This is more akin to the inclusion of extended family in rearing children, which prior to the last century was the norm, and remains the norm throughout much of the world today.

A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.

Yeah no, that's not how STIs work. Men are just as capable of contracting STIs from multiple partners as women are. I have no idea where you are getting this idea from. Further, the idea that people who practice consensual non-monogamy (polyamory, polygamy, group marriage, open relationships, etc.) are highly prone to STIs isn't backed by data. Individuals who practice ethical non-monogamy are significantly more likely to practice safe sex than unfaithful individuals in monogamous relationships, as well as being much more likely to undergo regular STI screenings and disclose information about their sexual health to potential sexual partners.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 12.02712.x

If every man could have many wives and every woman could have many husbands, there would be vast networks of intermarried people which would be a bit crazy. Basically everyone would be married to everyone. Paternity would be questionable, and inheritance law would be maddening

This is assuming it would become the norm, which seems highly unlikely. Monogamous family units have been crafted as the base unit upon which capitalist society is based for a reason, and it would take immense social change to disrupt the social and economic factors that help make this model of relationship the norm.

I will give you that even within small polyamorous communities, it still can often become rather confusing tracing the webs of relationships that can form. I actually used to joke around with friends a bit and try to intentionally confuse them with statements such as "my boyfriend's wife is dating my ex-girlfriend's husband" and watch as they struggle to try to connect the dots. In all honesty though, it usually isn't something you have to worry about way too much. I mostly just concern myself with my boyfriend and girlfriend and their immediate partners, not trying to follow the details about their partners' partners.

So if a woman has more husbands and they all want sex at the same time, she'll have to choose one and ignore the sexual desires of the others.

She doesn't necessarily have to. I feel you may be lacking imagination on this part.

Women (without a man to take care of them) were susceptible to being duped or being violated. Such a thing, if it happened in large numbers could soon destabilize the society.

I'm not even really sure how to respond to such a blatantly misogynistic statement, so I won't.

Also, there are many reasons behind why not allowing an extended polygamy, especially for women, such as:
1- Such a matter is in complete contrast with the nature of women.

Oh please enlighten me on the nature of women, sir. You see, I'm so easily susceptible to being duped that I'm afraid my poor feminine brain has difficulty grasping this concept without a man to explain it to me.

It would be difficult for a woman to satisfy the sexual needs of multiple husbands at the same time. For example, if a religion like Islam (just example) ordains that marital relations are a duty of the wife, this would become difficult for the wife.

If men in the relationship don't feel their sexual needs are being met, then they should either seek fulfillment of them elsewhere or accept that their wife is a human being with limitations and not just their sex toy.

Also, if a woman is already pregnant, and another husband wants to have a child, it would not be possible.

Then they either wait, get over it, or help raise her children.

Multiple childbirths would be destructive for the health of the woman.

Then don't have multiple childbirths. She's not under any obligation to be constantly having children.

The woman would have to take care of the families of multiple husbands. That includes cooking, cleaning etc, and would become extremely exhausting for the woman, if not impossible.

Because clearly this is solely her job as a woman. It's not as if men are capable of cooking or cleaning.

If the woman stays with one husband at a time, others and their children would be neglected. The woman would not be able to play her role as a mother properly.

Because the notion of parents living separate from one another is entirely foreign to our society and definitely not something children can handle.

[Elletolis]

Nope, polygamy isn't wrong. Consenting individuals ought to be able to do as they please to each other.