MRA group NCFM wins case - Draft women, or repeal draft

[Ifreann]

The draft cannot be repealed.

Fake news.

[Sicaris]

Draft is fine. It’s necessary in case of a national crisis threatening the safety of the country.

I don’t get why people want this repealed. But I’ll probably be attacked for saying that, so..

[Rezmaeristan]

The draft cannot be repealed.

Fake news.

Yes it can be repealed. But should it?

I say no. We have to be ready for anything. In the event that a war breaks out, we need our fighting-age population ready to be mobilized at a moment's notice.

[Novus America]

It is not paying with money.

I know. I did read the post before responding.

And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?

Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.

I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

Getting to vote isn't a free ride.

---

It’s not buying

political power in your communiry should be bought

so much as it is earning your way into politics.

I shouldn't need to earn my vote.

Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.

[NERVUN]

This is quite a travesty and a setback, in that it'll significantly harm the nation's ability to mobilize for war.

Ideally, the men should do the waging of warfare whilst the women work the factories and give birth to and raise the future generations. Biology dictates that the womb is more valuable than any one man- whom can be paired with multiple women should there be fewer men available. Thus, it is a vested national interest to protect the women more.

We can't have a mineshaft gap!

[Ifreann]

Fake news.

Yes it can be repealed. But should it?

Yes.

I say no. We have to be ready for anything. In the event that a war breaks out, we need our fighting-age population ready to be mobilized at a moment's notice.

America is currently in a bunch of wars.

---

I know. I did read the post before responding.

Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.

Getting to vote isn't a free ride.

---

I shouldn't need to earn my vote.

Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.

A community demanding contributions in exchange for giving its members political representation is shit.

[Novus America]

Yes it can be repealed. But should it?

Yes.

I say no. We have to be ready for anything. In the event that a war breaks out, we need our fighting-age population ready to be mobilized at a moment's notice.

America is currently in a bunch of wars.

---

Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.

A community demanding contributions in exchange for giving its members political representation is shit.

What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.

Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.

[Big Jim P]

I know. I did read the post before responding.

Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.

Getting to vote isn't a free ride.

---

I shouldn't need to earn my vote.

Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.

There are other ways to contribute to the community. Military service is just one of many.

[Ifreann]

Yes.


America is currently in a bunch of wars.

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A community demanding contributions in exchange for giving its members political representation is shit.

What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.

Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.

If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.

[Big Jim P]

What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.

Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.

If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.

Just as shitty as the government that allows those who contribute nothing to vote.

[Ifreann]

If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.

Just as shitty as the government that allows those who contribute nothing to vote.

Nothing shit about that. People who live under a government and should get to vote, simple as.

[Big Jim P]

Just as shitty as the government that allows those who contribute nothing to vote.

Nothing shit about that. People who live under a government and should get to vote, simple as.

As long as they contribute, yes.

[Ifreann]

Nothing shit about that. People who live under a government and should get to vote, simple as.

As long as they contribute, yes.

Whether they contribute or not.

[Novus America]

What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.

Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.

If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.

You are simply saying “this is shit because I say it is shit“.

[Reverend Norv]

Nothing shit about that. People who live under a government and should get to vote, simple as.

As long as they contribute, yes.

The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.

EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.

[Ifreann]

If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.

You are simply saying “this is shit because I say it is shit“.

It's shit because it's contrary to the principles of universal suffrage and governing by consent.

[Big Jim P]

As long as they contribute, yes.

The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.

EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.

As I said before, there are many ways one can contribute to ones community. However, if one chooses not to contribute, then those who do have to pull the non-contributers weight as well as their own.

[Reverend Norv]

The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.

EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.

As I said before, there are many ways one can contribute to ones community. However, if one chooses not to contribute, then those who do have to pull the non-contributers weight as well as their own.

Yes, and that's unfair. Life is full of unfairness. It does not change the fact that the power of citizens over the state cannot be contingent upon what they provide to it, because the state exists to serve citizens and not vice versa.

[Ifreann]

The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.

EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.

As I said before, there are many ways one can contribute to ones community. However, if one chooses not to contribute, then those who do have to pull the non-contributers weight as well as their own.

What a terrible burden it must be for the John Galts of the world to allow people to vote.

[Novus America]

You are simply saying “this is shit because I say it is shit“.

It's shit because it's contrary to the principles of universal suffrage and governing by consent.

Not against governing by consent of its members, it is simply limiting its membership.

And no country has 100% universal suffrage. There are always some limits.

[Ifreann]

It's shit because it's contrary to the principles of universal suffrage and governing by consent.

Not against governing by consent of its members, it is simply limiting its membership.

"We're not disenfranchising you, we're just not letting you vote"
Nah, fuck that, loophole denied.

And no country has 100% universal suffrage. There are always some limits.

So?

[Krasny-Volny]

Repeal the draft and bin selective service altogether. Nixon abolished the draft and it should've stayed abolished instead of having Carter try to resurrect it less than a decade after Vietnam.

[Thermodolia]

I'd rather we didn't.

The draft is necessary in the event of invasion or rebellion. As unlikely as an invasion/rebellion is at this point in time, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I just really don’t like forcing people into wars
Especially considering we used it in Vietnam

I’m fine with a draft as long as we offer peacefully means of National Service for those who don’t want to serve in the military.

For example we could have a CCC 2.0, the military, and a National Medical Service that you are eligible to pick if the draft comes into effect

[Novus America]

Not against governing by consent of its members, it is simply limiting its membership.

"We're not disenfranchising you, we're just not letting you vote"
Nah, fuck that, loophole denied.

And no country has 100% universal suffrage. There are always some limits.

So?

Again not everyone is automatically entitled full membership in any community they choose.
And the point is universal suffrage is not an absolute principle.

[Thermodolia]

Replace the draft with universal conscription for 2 years.

With an option for a CCC style civilian service or a national medical service in lieu of two year military service.