MRA group NCFM wins case - Draft women, or repeal draft

[Ifreann]

You shouldn't also have to support killing or still be at the risk of being killed to be cared for by your government.

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

[Ostroeuropa]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

Starship troopers the book was different.

Also, in the book, it wasn't necessarily military service required. It's just that the story is a war story. The point was "Citizenship by ordeal.". It's explicitly noted several times and the case of a "Blind paraplegic requesting citizenship" is discussed and how
"We'd find some unpleasant, dirty, dangerous thing for them to do and if they did it for a year, they could be a citizen.".

[Ostroeuropa]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It's meant to impress upon citizens that their citizenship is valuable because they have suffered for it, as opposed to a mere entitlement. It is argued this causes their use of it to manifest in different ways.

It also supposedly selects for people who have already demonstrated a commitment to the collective above individual interests. Almost every citizen is missing a limb or something and everyone who goes into it knows that is a very real possibility.

The system is kept in place by force and violence and the military aspect. (I.E, only those who have gone in for the system are going to end up trained as military personelle, and thus only they have the ability to force their will on society. But it's noteworthy the army doesn't seize power for itself exclusively, it seizes power on behalf of all "Citizens" because of the ideology behind the movement.).

I.E, we have all the soldiers and so don't need to listen to you. But we are not all soldiers ourselves.

[Ifreann]

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It's meant to impress upon citizens that their citizenship is valuable because they have suffered for it, as opposed to a mere entitlement. It is argued this causes their use of it to manifest in different ways.

It also supposedly selects for people who have already demonstrated a commitment to the collective above individual interests. Almost every citizen is missing a limb or something and everyone who goes into it knows that is a very real possibility.

Participation in politics should be an entitlement.

[Len Hyet]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

[Katganistan]

Fair. Draft both, when needed.

[Torrocca]

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

[Ifreann]

Fair. Draft both, when needed.

Draft nobody, ever.

[Katganistan]

Fair. Draft both, when needed.

Draft nobody, ever.

There's that, too.

[Len Hyet]

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Come Citizen. All the rights except the right to vote are already yours. Choose service, earn your vote!

[Novus America]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It is not paying with money.
And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?
I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

[Novus America]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

The movie was.
The book was not.

[Kowani]

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It is not paying with money.
And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?
I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

Just a theory, but even if you’re not in the army, if you do any financial activity, then you’re still giving back to the community.

[Ors Might]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

Bah. The movie was made by a guy who didn’t even read the book. Don’t mistake me here, though. I’m not suggesting we switch over to that methid of citizenship. Just that it isn’t so devoid of merit that we dismiss it out of hand. It’s worthy of analysis and discussion.

[Ors Might]

No but it’s not an absurd idea that political power in your communiry should be bought with service to your community.

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It’s not buying so much as it is earning your way into politics.

[The Two Jerseys]

Starship Troopers was a satire, Ors pls. :V

Bah. The movie was made by a guy who didn’t even read the book. Don’t mistake me here, though. I’m not suggesting we switch over to that methid of citizenship. Just that it isn’t so devoid of merit that we dismiss it out of hand. It’s worthy of analysis and discussion.

It's a completely valid idea, the French use it.

[Ors Might]

Bah. The movie was made by a guy who didn’t even read the book. Don’t mistake me here, though. I’m not suggesting we switch over to that methid of citizenship. Just that it isn’t so devoid of merit that we dismiss it out of hand. It’s worthy of analysis and discussion.

It's a completely valid idea, the French use it.

And just like that you invalidated it.

[Novus America]

It is not paying with money.
And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?
I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

Just a theory, but even if you’re not in the army, if you do any financial activity, then you’re still giving back to the community.

Well sure, also I said a national service should include non military paths to complete it.
The military should not be the only way.
After all not everyone is cut out for military service, they might better contribute via some other method.

[New haven america]

Hasn't adding Women to the Draft been a feminist goal?

Eh....

Some say that women should be drafted for total equality (And some laws/policies about this have nearly passed through Congress when the Right was trying to prove no one on the Left would vote for that... and then they were sorely mistaken), while others believe that a women's place isn't in war and that they're more important than men because they can grow babies (Basically they want "Equality" just with none of the downsides like selective services, all the legal problems that entails, having to deal with consequences, etc...).

[The Two Jerseys]

It's a completely valid idea, the French use it.

And just like that you invalidated it.

Sacre bleu! Mon Dieu!

[Ostroeuropa]

Remember that quote about gender equality on the supreme court?

Just gonna throw out a feminist meme to demonstrate some of the unhinged perspectives it yields:

"When we will there be an equal draft? When a war is fought entirely with women conscripts."

Wow. So wise. Much equality.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/758520 ... ough-women

[Ifreann]

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It is not paying with money.

I know. I did read the post before responding.

And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?

Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.

I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

Getting to vote isn't a free ride.

---

It is absurd. You shouldn't need to buy your way into politics.

It’s not buying

political power in your communiry should be bought

so much as it is earning your way into politics.

I shouldn't need to earn my vote.

[Galloism]

It is not paying with money.

I know. I did read the post before responding.

And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?

Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.

I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.

Getting to vote isn't a free ride.

---

It’s not buying

political power in your communiry should be bought

so much as it is earning your way into politics.

I shouldn't need to earn my vote.

I'm actually with Iffy on this one.

The ideal result would be men will finally have the right to vote for the first time in US history, instead of it being a privilege that has to be earned.

[Tahar Joblis]

>> when a feminist goal being achieved is treated as a feminist defeat

Welcome to... the Redpill Zone.

It hasn't been a "feminist goal" by any stretch of the imagination since the early 1980s. NOW filed an amicus in Rostker v. Goldberg in 1982 and backed making the system gender-neutral in congressional hearings held around the same time.

Some individual feminists, when pressed on the inequality of the situation, will suggest expanding the draft to women, but most generally will trot out the position that nobody should be subject to the draft without having any interest in addressing the inequality, or even acknowledging the ways in which the Selective Service system punishes men for not registering for the draft (government employment prospects and access to federal student loans are notable cases; perhaps not coincidentally, men are lagging in both access to college and employment by the federal government).

To the best of my knowledge, no major feminist group (e.g., National Organization of Women, Feminist Majority Foundation, League of Women Voters, etc) has backed a serious effort to challenge the male-only draft since that era, and I very much doubt any feminist group filed an amicus brief in this case, or will file an amicus brief on the same side as NCFM in any subsequent follow-up cases.

Until and unless NCFM succeeds, the only activity from feminists of any note will be attempts to obstruct change.

However, if the result of the follow-up cases is that the Selective Service system is expanded to include women, then feminists will take serious action in order to block women from being required to register. And if what they get first is an reinstatement of the old unequal military policies that supported the unequal ruling of Rostker v. Goldberg ... or if they can succeed in a line of defense of the status quo using a narrower sex difference in modern military policies (e.g., women being allowed to opt for combat roles, but not simply assigned into those roles, unlike men) ... they'll stop there with their activism.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The draft cannot be repealed.