Ukraine Has Not Yet Voted-Round 3(The Rada Runaround)

[Novus America]

Well different than trying to fight other churches for power (and the Israel lobby is just one of many) but anyways so?

How does what he does make the Orthodox Hierarchs less corrupt?

It doesn't. And not ALL the Hierarchs are corrupt.

I never said all are. Just that a whole lot are.

[Nea Byzantia]

It doesn't. And not ALL the Hierarchs are corrupt.

I never said all are. Just that a whole lot are.

Then yes, I agree with you.

[Shofercia]

Positionally, he does. He has a much larger flock than Bartholomew's and his position is more secure.

The "bad blood" between Moscow and Constantinople is nothing new; goes back to at least the dwindling decades of the Eastern Roman Empire. Nobody likes watching their star go down. In some sense, I understand how Bartholomew would want to take Moscow down a peg; but this isn't helping the unity of the Orthodox World in general; nor is it helping Constantinople in particular. Bartholomew is shooting himself in the foot because of his Pride; cutting off his nose to spite his face. As a Greek, its very sad to watch.

We Orthodox shouldn't be plotting and scheming against each other (whether it be Constantinople vs Moscow, or Georgia vs Russia); we have enough other rivals to hold at bay (the Liberal West, and the Islamic east). Byzantium, Bulgaria and Serbia all fell to the Ottomans because they were fighting each other in the 13th and 14th centuries, almost as much as they were fighting the Ottomans.

Liberalism is the baby of Christianity. Where do you think its meliorism comes from? If you’re thinking about a rival it’s Russia, which is basically the modern equivalent of the Mongol empire.

So instead of attempting to demonstrate a modicum of intelligence, or to provide any sources whatsoever, you respond with the now discredited "hurr durr Rushanz R Mongolz" meme. In the words of President Trump: SAD!

Also, you do bring up a good point, albeit inadvertently, and that is that we need religious unity councils in the Caucasus to bring peace to that region, through religion. Thank you for that idea, I'll try to make it a reality

[Nea Byzantia]

Liberalism is the baby of Christianity. Where do you think its meliorism comes from? If you’re thinking about a rival it’s Russia, which is basically the modern equivalent of the Mongol empire.

So instead of attempting to demonstrate a modicum of intelligence, or to provide any sources whatsoever, you respond with the now discredited "hurr durr Rushanz R Mongolz" meme. In the words of President Trump: SAD!

Also, you do bring up a good point, albeit inadvertently, and that is that we need religious unity councils in the Caucasus to bring peace to that region, through religion. Thank you for that idea, I'll try to make it a reality

Isn't the idea of Russia as the continuation of the Mongol Horde, just some old washed-up up British propaganda from the 19th century?

[Novus America]

I never said all are. Just that a whole lot are.

Then yes, I agree with you.

See I really care little about the actual theological implications of the dispute, I am just amused Putin is butt hurt his trollish games sometimes result in blowback

[Nea Byzantia]

Then yes, I agree with you.

See I real care little about the actual theological implications of the dispute, I am just amused Putin is butt hurt his trollish games sometimes result in blowback

Am I "Putin"?

[Novus America]

See I real care little about the actual theological implications of the dispute, I am just amused Putin is butt hurt his trollish games sometimes result in blowback

Am I "Putin"?

I do not believe so.
I have no ill will against you. Unless you secretly are Putin

[Nea Byzantia]

Am I "Putin"?

I do not believe so.
I have no ill will against you. Unless you secretly are Putin

WE ARE ALL PUTIN :twisted:

JOIN THE COLLECTIVE, COMRADE

[Shofercia]

So instead of attempting to demonstrate a modicum of intelligence, or to provide any sources whatsoever, you respond with the now discredited "hurr durr Rushanz R Mongolz" meme. In the words of President Trump: SAD!

Also, you do bring up a good point, albeit inadvertently, and that is that we need religious unity councils in the Caucasus to bring peace to that region, through religion. Thank you for that idea, I'll try to make it a reality

Isn't the idea of Russia as the continuation of the Mongol Horde, just some old washed-up up British propaganda from the 19th century?

Yep. After the fall of Napoleonic France, Russia and Britain were the two dominant powers, hence the propaganda. That's why I thought it was a mistake for Russia to fight Napoleonic France; let Napoleon take care of the British, and then either marry him off to a Russian, or provoke him to invade Russia. Csar Alexander the Uno was an idiot.

[Sharania]

BREAKING!

Hacked Emails Reveal Russia Is Backing Zelensky by Newsweek

Comedian and actor Volodymyr Zelenskiy, a political novice, has upended Ukraine’s presidential race over the past several months by promising young voters a break from a past riddled with corruption and leaders beholden to powerful oligarchs.

But now, a tranche of hacked emails suggest that Zelenskiy may have a powerful patron of his own: the Kremlin.

On Tuesday, Ukraine’s security services revealed that they are investigating whether Zelenskiy’s campaign received financing from members of the Russian security service who are supporting the leadership of the Donetsk People’s Republic, a self-proclaimed, pro-Russian separatist proto-state in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.

The claims first surfaced after a Ukrainian hacking group associated with the non-profit Myrotvorets Center released a set of hacked emails showing that a Russian security official with links to the DPR's leadership had attempted to exchange cryptocurrency for cash to send to Zelenskiy’s presidential campaign. In one of the emails, a member of the Russian security services notes that they “have approved the budget for the actions of the comedian.”

The emails also appear to show that some of the financing came from Kremlin aide Vladislav Surkov and Russian billionaire Konstantin Malofeev, both of whom allegedly help dictate the Kremlin’s policies towards Ukraine.

"Surkov is the chief architect of the Kremlin propaganda most known for 'non-linear warfare,'" Olga Lautman, an investigator focused on Russia and Ukraine, told Newsweek. "He was one of the architects of the annexation of Crimea [from Ukraine]."

"Malofeev is believed to serve as an intermediary between pro-Russian rebels in Donbas and Moscow, and was sanctioned by [former President Barack] Obama for allegedly financially supporting Russian nationalists in Crimea," Lautman continued.

The Insider, a London-based investigative reporting site, published copies of the leaks on Wednesday and determined that they appear to be real. Euromaidan Press, a Ukrainian website launched in the wake of the pro-Western Euromaidan movement in 2014, similarly reviewed the documents and determined that “the hack is probably authentic, but it is impossible to completely verify the most compromising messages." Other independent researchers came to similar conclusions.

Well, that's it for Zelensky and his Kremlin owners. This week, even with vote rigging and hacking, he won't be seen as a legitimate president of Ukraine. The people won't allow it. The West should not allow it.

[Nea Byzantia]

Isn't the idea of Russia as the continuation of the Mongol Horde, just some old washed-up up British propaganda from the 19th century?

Yep. After the fall of Napoleonic France, Russia and Britain were the two dominant powers, hence the propaganda. That's why I thought it was a mistake for Russia to fight Napoleonic France; let Napoleon take care of the British, and then either marry him off to a Russian, or provoke him to invade Russia. Csar Alexander the Uno was an idiot.

They could've taken down Kebab together; and Greece could've gotten Constantinople back.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

The people won't allow it. The West should not allow it.

You sound desperate, especially since it seems the people will allow it.

All's fair in love and populism.

[Nea Byzantia]

BREAKING!

Hacked Emails Reveal Russia Is Backing Zelensky by Newsweek

Comedian and actor Volodymyr Zelenskiy, a political novice, has upended Ukraine’s presidential race over the past several months by promising young voters a break from a past riddled with corruption and leaders beholden to powerful oligarchs.

But now, a tranche of hacked emails suggest that Zelenskiy may have a powerful patron of his own: the Kremlin.

On Tuesday, Ukraine’s security services revealed that they are investigating whether Zelenskiy’s campaign received financing from members of the Russian security service who are supporting the leadership of the Donetsk People’s Republic, a self-proclaimed, pro-Russian separatist proto-state in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.

The claims first surfaced after a Ukrainian hacking group associated with the non-profit Myrotvorets Center released a set of hacked emails showing that a Russian security official with links to the DPR's leadership had attempted to exchange cryptocurrency for cash to send to Zelenskiy’s presidential campaign. In one of the emails, a member of the Russian security services notes that they “have approved the budget for the actions of the comedian.”

The emails also appear to show that some of the financing came from Kremlin aide Vladislav Surkov and Russian billionaire Konstantin Malofeev, both of whom allegedly help dictate the Kremlin’s policies towards Ukraine.

"Surkov is the chief architect of the Kremlin propaganda most known for 'non-linear warfare,'" Olga Lautman, an investigator focused on Russia and Ukraine, told Newsweek. "He was one of the architects of the annexation of Crimea [from Ukraine]."

"Malofeev is believed to serve as an intermediary between pro-Russian rebels in Donbas and Moscow, and was sanctioned by [former President Barack] Obama for allegedly financially supporting Russian nationalists in Crimea," Lautman continued.

The Insider, a London-based investigative reporting site, published copies of the leaks on Wednesday and determined that they appear to be real. Euromaidan Press, a Ukrainian website launched in the wake of the pro-Western Euromaidan movement in 2014, similarly reviewed the documents and determined that “the hack is probably authentic, but it is impossible to completely verify the most compromising messages." Other independent researchers came to similar conclusions.

Well, that's it for Zelensky and his Kremlin owners. This week, even with vote rigging and hacking, he won't be seen as a legitimate president of Ukraine. The people won't allow it. The West should not allow it.

Of course America is saying this...They want to butress their stooge, Poroshenko. He's been doing such a good job (from the American Point of View)

[Panslavicland]

BREAKING!

Hacked Emails Reveal Russia Is Backing Zelensky by Newsweek

Well, that's it for Zelensky and his Kremlin owners. This week, even with vote rigging and hacking, he won't be seen as a legitimate president of Ukraine. The people won't allow it. The West should not allow it.

Of course America is saying this...They want to butress their stooge, Poroshenko. He's been doing such a good job (from the American Point of View)

Let's not pretend that Zelenskiy isn't a Western stooge too. He wants Ukraine to join NATO and the EU, and refuses to recognise the legitimacy of the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. This isn't a battle between Poroshenko and a legitimate alternative, it's a battle between two oligarchs who both intend to loot Ukraine if they control the government while being cheered on by the EU.

[Nea Byzantia]

Of course America is saying this...They want to butress their stooge, Poroshenko. He's been doing such a good job (from the American Point of View)

Let's not pretend that Zelenskiy isn't a Western stooge too. He wants Ukraine to join NATO and the EU, and refuses to recognise the legitimacy of the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. This isn't a battle between Poroshenko and a legitimate alternative, it's a battle between two oligarchs who both intend to loot Ukraine if they control the government while being cheered on by the EU.

If that's so, then why would the United States take such a stance against Zelenskiy? No. The Americans are continuing to back their horse in this race, because they essentially own Poroshenko; he's their stooge; he's their Man. Why? Because he's reliant on their patronage to stay in power (much like Yeltsin in 1990s Russia was); and thus he is America's dancing monkey. Zelenskiy might very well be just as corrupt as Poroshenko; but nonetheless, the Americans maybe don't own Zelenskiy the way they own Poroshenko; as such, Zelenskiy might be open to a deal with Moscow (especially if Putin offers a good deal); at least more open than Poroshenko would ever be. I'm not saying Zelenskiy is any more of an angel than Poroshenko; he just may be less of a devil.

[Panslavicland]

Let's not pretend that Zelenskiy isn't a Western stooge too. He wants Ukraine to join NATO and the EU, and refuses to recognise the legitimacy of the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. This isn't a battle between Poroshenko and a legitimate alternative, it's a battle between two oligarchs who both intend to loot Ukraine if they control the government while being cheered on by the EU.

If that's so, then why would the United States take such a stance against Zelenskiy? No. The Americans are continuing to back their horse in this race, because they essentially own Poroshenko; he's their stooge; he's their Man. Why? Because he's reliant on their patronage to stay in power (much like Yeltsin in 1990s Russia was); and thus he is America's dancing monkey. Zelenskiy might very well be just as corrupt as Poroshenko; but nonetheless, the Americans maybe don't own Zelenskiy the way they own Poroshenko; as such, Zelenskiy might be open to a deal with Moscow (especially if Putin offers a good deal); at least more open than Poroshenko would ever be. I'm not saying Zelenskiy is any more of an angel than Poroshenko; he just may be less of a devil.

What stance is America taking against Zelenskiy? This supposed "evidence" of Russian backing comes from a Ukrainian hacker group, probably employed to do so by Poroshenko.

What sort of deal with Moscow would be compatible with NATO and EU membership?

[Bahktar]

I'm also curious onto how the USA is backing Zelensky.

.. also, maybe call me paranoid, but I'm not that sure that Putin intends to give a "good deal" to a comedian turned politician who wants to sit down with him - I bet he will suck out every concession he can.

[Pim Fortuyn]

So instead of attempting to demonstrate a modicum of intelligence, or to provide any sources whatsoever, you respond with the now discredited "hurr durr Rushanz R Mongolz" meme. In the words of President Trump: SAD!

Also, you do bring up a good point, albeit inadvertently, and that is that we need religious unity councils in the Caucasus to bring peace to that region, through religion. Thank you for that idea, I'll try to make it a reality

Isn't the idea of Russia as the continuation of the Mongol Horde, just some old washed-up up British propaganda from the 19th century?

No it’s a basic truth. The way the Russian “Federation” operates is indistinguishable from the way the hordes which used to control Moscow.

It’s the idea that they aren’t which is pure hogwash.

[Shrillland]

Two other major bits of news, Zelensky is now promising a referendum on Ukrainian membership in NATO provided his party does well in the Rada elections in October: https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-presidential-candidate-pushes-parliament-093225736.html

And Zelensky and Poroshenko will actually debate tomorrow night: https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-presidential-candidates-finally-agree-debate-114337907.html

[Shofercia]

Isn't the idea of Russia as the continuation of the Mongol Horde, just some old washed-up up British propaganda from the 19th century?

No it’s a basic truth. The way the Russian “Federation” operates is indistinguishable from the way the hordes which used to control Moscow.

It’s the idea that they aren’t which is pure hogwash.

You continue to post "Russia Bad" without providing any proof... which is actually the very definition of total hogwash.

[Shofercia]

I'm also curious onto how the USA is backing Zelensky.

.. also, maybe call me paranoid, but I'm not that sure that Putin intends to give a "good deal" to a comedian turned politician who wants to sit down with him - I bet he will suck out every concession he can.

Take a look at the verbs used:

a tranche of hacked emails suggest that Zelenskiy... Ukraine’s security services revealed that they are investigating whether Zelenskiy’s campaign received financing from members of the Russian security service... The claims first surfaced after a Ukrainian hacking group associated with the non-profit Myrotvorets Center released a set of hacked emails...

The emails also appear to show that some of the financing came from Kremlin aide Vladislav Surkov and Russian billionaire Konstantin Malofeev... The Insider, a London-based investigative reporting site, published copies of the leaks on Wednesday and determined that they appear to be real... Still, some experts have cautioned against believing the information released by hackers from the Myrotvorets Center. “The reputation they have is not a good one. It's one of indiscriminate, politically motivated leaking that puts people, specifically journalists, at risk,” Nina Jankowicz, a global fellow at the Wilson Center’s Kennan Institute, told Newsweek... If truly authentic... if the funding, too, is real it pales in comparison to the resources Zelenskiy already has as a successful TV star embedded with powerful interests...

The sources are either Myrotvorets or SBU, those who are very loyal to Poroshenko, or the verbage used is sneaky, i.e. "appear to be" or "suggest" or similar vague language. Meanwhile, in reality:

Opinion polls released Tuesday showed Zelenskiy was likely to win the second round of elections on Sunday, April 21, by a landslide, garnering a little over 70 percent of votes.

For those who are still confused: Poroshenko realized he was going to lose in a fair election, and even an attempted rigged election, so his cohorts released the "hurr durr Zelensky is Russian Stooge and Russia bad" emails, to at least close the gap to make the election riggable, as they don't want their own corruption exposed.

[Bahktar]

I'm not sure how that proves the USA is supporting Poroshenko, though.

[Sharania]

Of course America is saying this...They want to butress their stooge, Poroshenko. He's been doing such a good job (from the American Point of View)

It is said not by "America", but by the journalists who did their job. This also supports what I wrote earlier:

Hacked 2014 docs from Russia’s LDPR party outline plan eerily similar to Zelenskyi campaign
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the leader of Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR), had on 3 April declared that his party will only recognize the Ukrainian elections if Volodymyr Zelenskyi is the winner. Hacked docs from his party in 2014 indicate a plan which is bewilderingly similar to the one used by Zelenskyi's campaign.

The fact, that pro-Russian, anti-Western (and also pro-MAGA) posters here dismiss everything said about Zelensky’s ties with Kremlin is rather telling.

[Shofercia]

I'm not sure how that proves the USA is supporting Poroshenko, though.

It doesn't. It's the equivalent of saying "the US is likely to support Poroshenko" or some such bullshit. There's no commitment given, and no verified facts stated that actually matter.

Of course America is saying this...They want to butress their stooge, Poroshenko. He's been doing such a good job (from the American Point of View)

It is said not by "America", but by the journalists who did their job. This also supports what I wrote earlier:

Hacked 2014 docs from Russia’s LDPR party outline plan eerily similar to Zelenskyi campaign
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the leader of Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR), had on 3 April declared that his party will only recognize the Ukrainian elections if Volodymyr Zelenskyi is the winner. Hacked docs from his party in 2014 indicate a plan which is bewilderingly similar to the one used by Zelenskyi's campaign.

The fact, that pro-Russian, anti-Western (and also pro-MAGA) posters here dismiss everything said about Zelensky’s ties with Kremlin is rather telling.

Zelensky has personal ordered me to turn Ukraine into a laughing stock on NSG, so that all Ukrainians could read NSG, and elect a comedian /sarcasm

[Bahktar]

well, if you say so, then the idea that "US supports Poroshenko" is wrong.

was the second round on the 21st?