2021 Israeli Elections IV: Now Without Netanyahu

by **North German Realm** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:27 am

I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything), or Yachad (only for his opposition to the existence of the Palestinian colonial state). Within context of "who might win?", I'd say I'd throw my lot with Yesh Atid, though I'd love for them to win with a coalition with either of the other two parties I support.
One thing is clear though, Netanyahu needs to go. He's been in power for too long, and he's too soft on the Lebanese, Palestinians, and -until recently- Iran.

by **Page** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:43 pm

North German Realm wrote:I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything)

Half the West Bank is occupied and Gaza is an open air prison, how much more invaded can Palestine get?

by **Shrillland** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:48 pm

Page wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything)

Half the West Bank is occupied and Gaza is an open air prison, how much more invaded can Palestine get?

Well, I think he's pushing for "wiped off the face of the Earth and become Israelis".

by **Trumptonium1** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:09 pm

Page wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything)

Half the West Bank is occupied and Gaza is an open air prison, how much more invaded can Palestine get?

Like, actual boots on the ground so they stop the rockets being fired from Palestinian territory into Israel every 3rd day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%8 ... ember_2018)

Not sure you'd like living in a country where the air raid warning siren urging you to hide in a bunker is sounded twice a week.

Oh look, random innocent 19 year old Israeli teen critically wounded 2 months ago because his bus was hit by a rocket from Gaza for no reason in particular other than LULS
https://www.apnews.com/28f25c4e03cb40f5b53e12fa1b3aed25

by **Crylante** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:14 pm

I would probably vote for Meretz out of that.

by **Major-Tom** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:18 pm

Hosen Yisrael's upstart campaign seems to be the party who could most successfully play a role in toppling Bibi, with the help of various center and center-left parties as well.

Despite their vagueness, the idea of a two-state solution, economic reform and social liberalism sounds like a decent enough platform. It should be unsaid that escalating tensions and violence with the Palestinians will only hurt both sides and serve as a detriment to future peace. It's absolutely baffling that after over a decade of the hawkish approach towards Palestine, people still support it, despite seeing how poorly it has worked for both Israel and Palestine.

by **Shrillland** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:19 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Page wrote:
Half the West Bank is occupied and Gaza is an open air prison, how much more invaded can Palestine get?

Like, actual boots on the ground so they stop the rockets being fired from Palestinian territory into Israel every 3rd day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%8 ... ember_2018)

Not sure you'd like living in a country where the air raid warning siren urging you to hide in a bunker is sounded twice a week.

Oh look, random innocent 19 year old Israeli teen critically wounded 2 months ago because his bus was hit by a rocket from Gaza for no reason in particular other than LULS
https://www.apnews.com/28f25c4e03cb40f5b53e12fa1b3aed25

Yes, that's a sign that Hamas needs to be gotten rid of, but none of those are from the West Bank where the Palestinian Authority actually governs. There, things have more or less calmed down, and they deserve a fair shake, which Netanyahu has refused to give them. Besides, Likud's been in power for 14 of the last 18 years, and the worsening corruption scandals are proving that Likud's time in power is showing its age. It's time for them to step aside and for Labour to take over, hopefully with Meretz as part of their coalition.

by **North German Realm** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:22 pm

Page wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything)

Half the West Bank is occupied and Gaza is an open air prison, how much more invaded can Palestine get?

Get there boots on the ground, throw every Palestinian out of there, resettle it with Jews. That's what Israel should had done, not now but during 1948, when the Palestinians committed treason in the first place.
Even now that can be salvaged. Stop sending them unfair treaties that give Palestine the upper hand (even though you know they'll refuse), stop recognizing "Palestine" as a legitimate claimant to the Levant, and do with them what anyone does with unlawful combatants.

by **Novus America** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:25 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
Like, actual boots on the ground so they stop the rockets being fired from Palestinian territory into Israel every 3rd day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%8 ... ember_2018)

Not sure you'd like living in a country where the air raid warning siren urging you to hide in a bunker is sounded twice a week.

Oh look, random innocent 19 year old Israeli teen critically wounded 2 months ago because his bus was hit by a rocket from Gaza for no reason in particular other than LULS
https://www.apnews.com/28f25c4e03cb40f5b53e12fa1b3aed25

Yes, that's a sign that Hamas needs to be gotten rid of, but none of those are from the West Bank where the Palestinian Authority actually governs. There, things have more or less calmed down, and they deserve a fair shake, which Netanyahu has refused to give them. Besides, Likud's been in power for 14 of the last 18 years, and the worsening corruption scandals are proving that Likud's time in power is showing its age. It's time for them to step aside and for Labour to take over, hopefully with Meretz as part of their coalition.

Though that is unlikely, they probably will not have enough votes.

Even so actual resolution of the West Bank issue is practically impossible.
Israel is a multi party parliamentary democracy, getting an actual majority to agree on what to do with the West Bank is not going to happen. There are too many parts and groups with too many different ideas.

Actually coming up with a plan that a majority would support is basically impossible.

by **Shrillland** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:29 pm

Novus America wrote:
Shrillland wrote:

Yes, that's a sign that Hamas needs to be gotten rid of, but none of those are from the West Bank where the Palestinian Authority actually governs. There, things have more or less calmed down, and they deserve a fair shake, which Netanyahu has refused to give them. Besides, Likud's been in power for 14 of the last 18 years, and the worsening corruption scandals are proving that Likud's time in power is showing its age. It's time for them to step aside and for Labour to take over, hopefully with Meretz as part of their coalition.

Though that is unlikely, they probably will not have enough votes.

Even so actual resolution of the West Bank issue is practically impossible.
Israel is a multi party parliamentary democracy, getting an actual majority to agree on what to do with the West Bank is not going to happen. There are too many parts and groups with too many different ideas.

Actually coming up with a plan that a majority would support is basically impossible.

Aye, it seems that the Israelis are as indifferent to corruption as we are.

by **Menassa** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:31 pm

I request Shas and UTJ be split up on the poll.

by **Menassa** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:38 pm

Angleter wrote:In other news, BENNY GANTZ HAS A THEME TUNE

It includes a rap.

Probably because there are so many parties all in fierce competition for attention, Israeli parties have a habit of making theme tunes for their election campaigns. I'll post them as and when I find them. Some highlights from 2015: United Torah Judaism, Shas, Yachad (for some reason the Haredi parties love recording songs), Meretz, Bayit Yehudi

I find UTJ's use of the Chofetz Chaim (short guy in the black and white video) to be morally repugnant.

by **Trumptonium1** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:48 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
Like, actual boots on the ground so they stop the rockets being fired from Palestinian territory into Israel every 3rd day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... rael,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%8 ... ember_2018)

Not sure you'd like living in a country where the air raid warning siren urging you to hide in a bunker is sounded twice a week.

Oh look, random innocent 19 year old Israeli teen critically wounded 2 months ago because his bus was hit by a rocket from Gaza for no reason in particular other than LULS
https://www.apnews.com/28f25c4e03cb40f5b53e12fa1b3aed25

Yes, that's a sign that Hamas needs to be gotten rid of, but none of those are from the West Bank where the Palestinian Authority actually governs. There, things have more or less calmed down, and they deserve a fair shake, which Netanyahu has refused to give them.

Because the Palestinian Authority has consistently threatened to de-recognise Israel as a nation if they take any steps to occupy Gaza, despite them not holding any territory there de facto because it's an Islamic dictatorship.

Shrillland wrote: Besides, Likud's been in power for 14 of the last 18 years, and the worsening corruption scandals are proving that Likud's time in power is showing its age. It's time for them to step aside and for Labour to take over, hopefully with Meretz as part of their coalition.

There are no worsening corruption scandals, because so far they're all allegations. Length of governance has no matter if the style and performance of the governing is good and effective. In the case of Israel, it is. On both the social but especially the economic front (Israel's economy has doubled since Netanyahu came to power in 2009, and quadrupled since Sharon came to power in 2001)

When Likud came to power in 2001, Israelis were as wealthy as the Greeks and the Portuguese (GDP per capita PPP terms). Israel has kept pace with booming Eastern Europe and is today level with the Czech Republic and Slovakia, in other words same place as Italy, and significantly wealthier than the Greeks and Portuguese and only inches off France and Japan.

The reason why AKP continues to be popular in Turkey, ANO in the Czech Republic, PiS in Poland, YR in Russia, Fidesz in Hungary, you name it, is because thanks to or despite their strongmen leaders, they have led their countries through a period of economic booms thanks to what can be attributed to their decisions. QoQ Poland is now growing faster than China and just 0.1% behind India. Real wages in Hungary are growing over 8% a year. The Czech Republic has record high consumer confidence. In all three countries, unemployment rates are at their lowest since the early months of the year 1990 when everything began being privatised and people laid off day after day. In Turkey, despite flaws in governance regarding inflation and interest rates, over 15 million people have joined the workforce since AKP came to power and manufacturing sector wages doubled since 2014.

In most of the named countries, taxes have fallen one way or another. In Poland, social security taxes took out 42% of your wage in 2015. Today that's 36%. In the Czech Republic, corporate taxes have halved and been eliminated for small domestic businesses. In Russia, taxes on homes for first-time buyers have been eliminated. Hungary meanwhile has been an international model for revisiting the concept of a flat income tax - revenues have soared since the introduction in 2011, since then the rate has fallen from 20% to 16% to 15% as of last year, and there's talk of lowering it even further to 12.5%. Meanwhile government spending is increasing far above inflation, even though as a percentage of GDP it is falling. So is debt, because the govt budget is balanced.

Likud operates on the same premise. Corruption scandals, racism, sexism, doesn't matter what you throw at them. Good governance is all the people want, they don't care whether a Latinx woman was abused on the bus or whether a disgusting white teenager had the gall to look an ethnic minority in the eye in public while wearing a racist hat.

It's why Trump will be re-elected.

by **Angleter** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:04 pm

North German Realm wrote:I'm personally sympathetic to Yesh Atid, New Right (If only they supported invading Palestine too, but you can't have everything), or Yachad (only for his opposition to the existence of the Palestinian colonial state). Within context of "who might win?", I'd say I'd throw my lot with Yesh Atid, though I'd love for them to win with a coalition with either of the other two parties I support.
One thing is clear though, Netanyahu needs to go. He's been in power for too long, and he's too soft on the Lebanese, Palestinians, and -until recently- Iran.

If you think Netanyahu's too soft on the Palestinians &c., then Yesh Atid is an, er, unusual choice of alternative.

by **Diopolis** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 pm

Darussalam wrote:Yisrael Beitenu is so fucking based
Liriena wrote:HEZBOL GANG

He wants to abolish women rights, criminalize homosexuality, promote high fertility rate, punish blasphemy and apostasy, establish cohesive religious communities. Hamas is his best bet.

And we're both anti-capitalists.
Seriously, though, whoever has the best chance of breaking up the Jewish state and driving them back to their ghettos.

by **Menassa** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:01 pm

I'm not to worried about the winner of the elections.

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/1206 ... elections/

by **Thermodolia** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:31 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Darussalam wrote:Yisrael Beitenu is so fucking based

He wants to abolish women rights, criminalize homosexuality, promote high fertility rate, punish blasphemy and apostasy, establish cohesive religious communities. Hamas is his best bet.

And we're both anti-capitalists.
Seriously, though, whoever has the best chance of breaking up the Jewish state and driving them back to their ghettos.

You’re such a lovely person. /sarc

by **Diopolis** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:34 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:And we're both anti-capitalists.
Seriously, though, whoever has the best chance of breaking up the Jewish state and driving them back to their ghettos.

You’re such a lovely person. /sarc

They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

by **Thermodolia** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:40 pm

Menassa wrote:I'm not to worried about the winner of the elections.

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/1206 ... elections/

And it’s probably going to turn out like every other prediction; wrong

by **Thermodolia** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:41 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:You’re such a lovely person. /sarc

They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

So you’re mad at the Jews because we didn’t bow before someone who claimed to be god?

by **Diopolis** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:43 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

So you’re mad at the Jews because we didn’t bow before someone who claimed to be god?

No.
After losing your covenant through deicide, you continue to claim it's rights. That is wrong.

by **Shrillland** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:43 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:You’re such a lovely person. /sarc

They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

There are plenty of valid arguments for and against the existence of Modern Israel. Carrying on 2000-year-old grudges against Jews and 1000-year-old grudges against the fall of Baudouin's kingdom isn't one of them

by **Thermodolia** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:So you’re mad at the Jews because we didn’t bow before someone who claimed to be god?

No.
After losing your covenant through deicide, you continue to claim it's rights. That is wrong.

I’m not going to start a religious debate in here but Jesus is only a deity in your religion not mine. Hell its not even certain he existed

by **Diopolis** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:48 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Diopolis wrote:They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

There are plenty of valid arguments for and against the existence of Modern Israel. Carrying on 2000-year-old grudges against Jews and 1000-year-old grudges against the fall of Baudouin's kingdom isn't one of them

In fairness, I wouldn't be in favor of an apartheid state with no obvious point even if the people doing the ethnic cleansing weren't Jews. I don't like Serbia or Myanmar either.

by **Novus America** » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:50 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Diopolis wrote:They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

There are plenty of valid arguments for and against the existence of Modern Israel. Carrying on 2000-year-old grudges against Jews and 1000-year-old grudges against the fall of Baudouin's kingdom isn't one of them

Yeah, I have to agree.
First of all a few Jews going along with some other groups on the crucifixion (some Jews were for it, others against it) does not mean the whole group can be blamed.

Second no Jews alive today had any involvement whatsoever.

Collective punishment against an entire race for the crimes of some members of done 2,000 years ago is bad.

By that logic we could delegitimize any state or group.

2021 Israeli Elections IV: Now Without Netanyahu

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