Canadian Politics

[Shrillland]

Too bad for Trudeau.

He ran on an economic agenda, how well do you people feel you are doing economically.

Well, that puts your administration at the mercy of global forces over which you have little control, doesn't it?

So now people are not doing so great, at least in their own perception, and you are not to blame, but they do not care.

It's not just that. He ran promising a change to a PR system for electing the House, only to renege on that promise when he realised he couldn't ever get a majority in a PR system. That, and the Canadian press kept crying about "permanent minority governments" because "coalition" seems to be an incredibly dirty word in Canadian politics.

[Nyasira]

I have done more to prove my argument than you have for yours. You say that all the evidence I cited is UN/Jinping or hearsay, when a quick Google search can confirm most of what I've said. For example, just google 'China most solar panels', and you have a range of sources from BBC, Aljazeera, amongst others.

That’s not how this works. You made the claim you prove it. I’m not going to prove your argument for you.

If you don't trust any single one of these, then that is your issue, as there is no reason to be paranoid of every single news source as long as you know what their interests, biases and attitudes are. You're clearly here in bad faith, dismissing all evidence and deflecting with 'give me more proof'.

No, I haven’t deflected. You refuse you cite or even give your sources. You continue to refuse to back up your claims and just stamp your feet and get mad when someone calls you out on it.

You have even failed to read what I have said correctly, as I criticised you for criticising socialist economies, and making blanket statements, both of which you have done without evidence.

Again socialist economies are not above criticism. To say otherwise is insanity and we’d only have god awful Marxism as leftist thought. Criticism is healthy.

You want evidence here ya go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects ... e_Cold_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China
https://www.newsweek.com/price-cheap-ma ... -us-226696
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/11/polluti ... onomy.html
http://www.globalissues.org/news/2011/06/20/10157

Now that I showed my work to the class how about you return the favor? Otherwise you got nothing

Of course it's not how it works. You're not interested in learning; you just want me to pull out sources so you can say you do not trust them. It's ironic that you accuse me of stamping my feet when you are unable to make any legitimate criticism of a source simply because you disagree with who made it. (Although you seem to trust Wikipedia a lot, which anyone can edit...)

I never said socialist economies are above criticism. You have failed to understand what 'criticism without evidence' means for the 2nd time. I even bolded it; there is no reason you should have misunderstood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China - Reinforces my claim about solar power in China.
https://www.itdp.org/2018/07/30/china-d ... it-growth/ - China attempting to address climate change with sustainable public transport.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-i ... ?r=US&IR=T - Investment into the creation of green cities in China.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d414d3167 ... are_p.html - Companies sanctioned in China.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/clim ... ution.html - China suspends production of more than 500 car models not meeting fuel economy standards. Deemed a 'bastion of climate action' by a Western newspaper.
https://epic.uchicago.edu/sites/default ... 282%29.pdf - From the University of Chicago. '“The data is in—China is winning its war against pollution and is due to see dramatic improvements in the overall health of its people' from a right-wing economist.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018 ... pollution/ - China cracking down on pollution. 'Last year [2017], the capital’s average daily concentration of PM2.5 particles was almost a third lower than in 2015, compared with declines of about a tenth for some other major cities.'
https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leadi ... report/amp - 'China is by far the largest force in global clean energy development and its firms are increasingly looking abroad for opportunities, a new report says' (according to a report from the IEEFA, a US-based organisation).
https://www.ecowatch.com/china-renewabl ... 1507140643 - 'While China today is far and away the global leader in solar generation, a decade ago, the country had just 100 megawatts of solar photovoltaic (PV) capacity installed. That's nothing. For reference, it's actually less than is currently installed in the city of San Antonio. By the end of 2016, China had increased its solar PV capacity by nearly 800 times, with more than 77 gigawatts currently installed.'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 08836.html - 60,000 soldiers have been assigned to plant trees in order to combat pollution. 'Area to be planted by the end of the year is roughly the size of Ireland'. Would you be able to get, for example, the US military to do this?
http://www.ecosnippets.com/environmenta ... in-forest/ - 'China Announces That It Will Cover Nearly A Quarter Of The Country In Forest By 2020…'

As you can see, China is doing a lot in order to combat pollution and environmental disaster; there is nothing inherent to socialism about having to industrialise in order to catch up with already industrialised Western countries. That was a product of the political conflict between the socialist USSR, China and the West. Looking at the feats China has accomplished now, one could argue that, actually, a socialist planned economy is indeed successful.

Now let's look at your sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_o ... e_Cold_War - Almost everything is 'citation needed' (which means there is no verifiable source behind the claim). I even tried to research the statistic (via Google) regarding 50 per cent of forests being dead or dying but I could only find a libertarian (and therefore biased against socialism and thus unreliable in this instance) source saying 'half'. I'm not going to deny that there was pollution from the USSR, but again, this was primarily the fault of the need to industrialise quickly in the face of looming external threats. A graph located here https://www.reddit.com/r/environment/co ... over_time/ shows that the pollution levels of the USSR before Stalin's death were comparatively lower than Germany, the UK and especially the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea - The Aral Sea began to shrink as a result of Soviet irrigation projects in the 1960s, likely due to the Virgin Lands Scheme as a response to food shortages which was a failure. I am highly critical of the Soviet Union during Khrushchev as it was during his tenure that the USSR abandoned Marxism-Leninism and set a precedent for the liberalisation of the USSR. So to sum up, this isn't a fault of socialism or a socialist economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China - You have linked me an entire Wikipedia article that says, yes, China has a bad case of pollution, but is actively trying to combat it. So thanks for helping me out!

https://www.newsweek.com/price-cheap-ma ... -us-226696 - (Just nitpicking here, but you're using a source that has not used fact checkers since 1996. Source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek. I'm not saying this affects the actual article since it's actually from Reuters, but it's just strange of you to claim the UN is unreliable when you link Newsweek). The article says 'Environmental and health problems are the unexpected side effects of U.S. demand for cheap China-manufactured goods', which, again, doesn't mean these environmental issues are inherent to a socialist economy. I'm not going to deny that there is a pollution problem in China — there is — and the article refers to studies and sources backing that up; however, the very end of the article devolves into an opinionated diatribe against China's 'stability-obsessed leaders' and says that 'Authorities have invested in various projects to fight pollution, but none so far has worked' without making any citations or giving any concrete examples. China, as I've shown already, has been focused on combatting pollution as a result of the industrialisation it has undergone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/11/polluti ... onomy.html - Your article supports my claim that China is attempting — and succeeding — in fighting pollution. 'There are lots of bright spots among the gray, though. And China has committed to improving air quality 10 percent by 2017. Strict new laws crack down on polluters. And 2,500 small polluting firms will be shuttered this year in Beijing alone. Other violators are getting stiff penalties. Coal use is being capped and cut for heating and heavy industry, said Hove. China’s air quality is being strictly monitored by the government as well, and the country is even launching carbon-tracking satellites to help track and reduce carbon emissions. And though Beijing issued its highest red pollution alert last December, its air in 2015 was cleaner than it has been for several years, according to Paulson Institute studies.

“Even fireworks have been controlled for their contribution to air quality,” Hove said. But, he added, even burning crop waste can affect air quality, which makes cleaning up pollution complex.'

'China is also trying all types of innovations to clean up its air. Some big, polluted cities, like Guigang, are using mist cannons, which shoot into the air a spray that disperses smog particles. And China has launched a $7.6 billion fund to combat air pollution.'

http://www.globalissues.org/news/2011/06/20/10157 - This article is from 2011, before Xi Jinping became General Secretary of the Communist Party of China. Charts such as these https://www.google.com/search?q=china+g ... vhWa71Sj7M: show that this takes place not long after rapid economic growth which is the principal reason for pollution; prioritising rapid economic growth isn't innate to socialism. It's a means of survival in the face of external threats, in an effort to catch up with the West. I'm not saying that that is perfectly excusable, but I'm providing some nuance to why China has prioritised economic growth, which is the principle reason behind the pollution. With that said, the article says 'Our environmental quality is only improving in certain areas, but overall the environment is still deteriorating', indicating that meagre progress was being made even if it wasn't sufficient. Now China has revised its law on water pollution. http://www.xinhuanet.com//english/2017- ... 399271.htm (Yes, this is Xinhua, but the point of this source is to show that China is actively taking measures to combat this. Even if you don't trust it, it would make no sense for them to announce this if the Chinese government didn't actually revise the law!). If that isn't good enough for you, then let's use Reuters again as that is a source you are fine with: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1B4090 states that 'China launched nearly 8,000 water clean-up projects in the first half of 2017 with projected total investment of 667.4 billion yuan ($100 billion)' and that 'The MEP said this month that overall water quality had improved in the first half of 2017'.

[Major-Tom]

Too bad for Trudeau.

He ran on an economic agenda, how well do you people feel you are doing economically.

Well, that puts your administration at the mercy of global forces over which you have little control, doesn't it?

So now people are not doing so great, at least in their own perception, and you are not to blame, but they do not care.

It's not just that. He ran promising a change to a PR system for electing the House, only to renege on that promise when he realised he couldn't ever get a majority in a PR system. That, and the Canadian press kept crying about "permanent minority governments" because "coalition" seems to be an incredibly dirty word in Canadian politics.

Had the Liberals chosen anybody but Trudeau back in 2013, they'd likely be enjoying a smooth sailing governmental majority with high approval ratings. I mean - I'd vote for Trudeau over Scheer in a heartbeat, but Trudeau has managed to spectacularly mismanage most everything he touches.

[Shrillland]

It's not just that. He ran promising a change to a PR system for electing the House, only to renege on that promise when he realised he couldn't ever get a majority in a PR system. That, and the Canadian press kept crying about "permanent minority governments" because "coalition" seems to be an incredibly dirty word in Canadian politics.

Had the Liberals chosen anybody but Trudeau back in 2013, they'd likely be enjoying a smooth sailing governmental majority with high approval ratings. I mean - I'd vote for Trudeau over Scheer in a heartbeat, but Trudeau has managed to spectacularly mismanage most everything he touches.

It was all name recognition, otherwise Rae could've run for leader and become PM. Sure, he wouldn't have been as charismatic, but he'd have gotten the job done while Trudeau gained experience and ran to lead the Liberals in '23 or so.

[Major-Tom]

Had the Liberals chosen anybody but Trudeau back in 2013, they'd likely be enjoying a smooth sailing governmental majority with high approval ratings. I mean - I'd vote for Trudeau over Scheer in a heartbeat, but Trudeau has managed to spectacularly mismanage most everything he touches.

It was all name recognition, otherwise Rae could've run for leader and become PM. Sure, he wouldn't have been as charismatic, but he'd have gotten the job done while Trudeau gained experience and ran to lead the Liberals in '23 or so.

You're correct on the name recognition bit - there are a plethora of different scenarios in Canadian politics that could've unfolded too. Such as, say, what would have happened if Layton had beat the odds and survived his cancer, what would have happened had Cullen won the NDP leadership way back when in 2012, etc etc.

2015 could've looked very different.

[Krolichgrad]

I’m rather afraid of a Conservative majority. I’d much rather have our useless Trudeau government than a house and senate full of Tories. I can only hope that NDP or Liberal wins, although they are all parties of the bourgeoisie, Tories would be doing what Doug Ford is doing but on a national level, and that scares me. Doug Ford so far has been cutting all of the benefits I depend on as a person and may even cut the coverage of some of my medication, to see that his party may win parliament is a scary thought.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Canad makes me so angry I wish some real patriots lived there stead of liberals.

"People I don't agree with are not trying to help the nation they are in!!!"

Too bad for Trudeau.

He ran on an economic agenda, how well do you people feel you are doing economically.

Fine I guess?

[Mystic Warriors]

Canad makes me so angry I wish some real patriots lived there stead of liberals.

They are not true Patriots because they dont agree with you? Hmmmm......

[Mystic Warriors]

Canad makes me so angry I wish some real patriots lived there stead of liberals.

Have you not heard of the Conservative Party of Canada? It looks likely that they might defeat Trudeau in this upcoming election.

Dear God I hope not. Their guy thinks Ted Cruz is a great mind.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Have you not heard of the Conservative Party of Canada? It looks likely that they might defeat Trudeau in this upcoming election.

Dear God I hope not. Their guy thinks Ted Cruz is a great mind.

Ted Cruz is a net neutrality hating asshole who is in Comcast's pocket.

[Union of Socialist Alpine Republics]

I voted for other.

There's a lot of insatisfaction with the Bloc Québécois here in Québec and two new independentist parties could pop up in the next month: parti Pour l'Indépendance du Québec, who feels the Bloc doesn't promote enough the independence, and Parti Patriote, who plays a lot the identity card. From what I know, they both collected enough signatures to be approved by Élections Canada and they're waiting for the go from them.

[Dresderstan]

Wilson-Raybould & Philpott will seek re-election as Independent MPs

So rather than do what I wanted them to do and join the opposition parties and run under those parties banners, they are running as independents in the ridings of Vancouver Granville and Markham-Stouffville.

[Nakena]

Would Ted Cruz to be egilibe to run in the elections and subsequently rule Canada as Viceroy on behalf of God Emperor Trump?

[Shrillland]

Wilson-Raybould & Philpott will seek re-election as Independent MPs

So rather than do what I wanted them to do and join the opposition parties and run under those parties banners, they are running as independents in the ridings of Vancouver Granville and Markham-Stouffville.

Well, if they're still popular enough, they can still win.

[Shrillland]

It's been pretty quiet, but I'm seeing 38 MPs retiring according to Wiki(including Tony Clement and Kellie Leitch) and the polls showing the Conservatives quite close to majority territory.

[Dresderstan]

It's been pretty quiet, but I'm seeing 38 MPs retiring according to Wiki(including Tony Clement and Kellie Leitch) and the polls showing the Conservatives quite close to majority territory.

Well I mean, there is the "no pipelines bill" that the Tories have been saying would go against the words of the premiers of 9 provinces and all the territories, how Chinese-Canadian relations continue to worsen in relation with Canola and Canadian citizens who have been detained, ect, ect.

I think this is the closest to a majority in the polls Scheer has had so far, but he just needs to edge it out a little bit more and hold the lead for the next 4 months.

[Nakena]

I did choose liberal here. Trudeau must stay for the memery of Leafland being a pinko-communist counterpart to Emperor Trump.

Otherwise things would get boring. Also lets be real, its almost 2020!

[Dresderstan]

Manitoba Premier moves election date to September 10th, 2019.

So we have yet another provincial election to contend with before the big federal election in October.

[Shrillland]

Manitoba Premier moves election date to September 10th, 2019.

So we have yet another provincial election to contend with before the big federal election in October.

hmm...not a bad idea, but the PCs are a little lower in the polls. Right now, I'll say they'll hold on to a smaller majority. There's another general before the big vote on October 1, but NWT has a nonpartisan consensus government.

[Dresderstan]

Manitoba Premier moves election date to September 10th, 2019.

So we have yet another provincial election to contend with before the big federal election in October.

hmm...not a bad idea, but the PCs are a little lower in the polls. Right now, I'll say they'll hold on to a smaller majority. There's another general before the big vote on October 1, but NWT has a nonpartisan consensus government.

Yeah I don't really count the Territorial elections tbh, they're quite dull and boring. I could see the PCs hold to a minority government, if the polls continue to see them weaken.

[Dresderstan]

Another vacant seat in the House as Mark Warawa for Langley-Aldergrove passed away from cancer yesterday.

[Dresderstan]

Renata Ford, Rob Ford's widow and sister-in-law to Ontario Premier Doug Ford will be running as the PPC candidate in Etobicoke North

Because Toronto hasn't had enough of the Ford dynasty just yet.

[Shrillland]

Renata Ford, Rob Ford's widow and sister-in-law to Ontario Premier Doug Ford will be running as the PPC candidate in Etobicoke North

Because Toronto hasn't had enough of the Ford dynasty just yet.

No chance. Last time the Conservatives had a real shot, they were still two separate parties, I doubt the PPC can take it.

[Dresderstan]

Renata Ford, Rob Ford's widow and sister-in-law to Ontario Premier Doug Ford will be running as the PPC candidate in Etobicoke North

Because Toronto hasn't had enough of the Ford dynasty just yet.

No chance. Last time the Conservatives had a real shot, they were still two separate parties, I doubt the PPC can take it.

I agree, Etobicoke North is pretty much a safe Liberal riding, even with the Ford name attached to the PPC I doubt she'll get even 5 or 10% of the vote.

[Shrillland]

I haven't been looking at the news like I should have, but the Liberals seem to be tightening the polls. They're now within the margin of error on a national level(35-32 for the Conservatives). The NDP's averaging 15%, Greens averaging 10%, BQ averaging 4.7%, and PPC, surprisingly, getting a 4% average of their own.