MAGAThread XV: Because Another

[Duhon]

It should be about trying to woo the more detachable parts of Trump's base away from him; hate him or loathe him, he still has the advantage. Nothing short of decisive loss will make his bitch fits ring hollow.

But shouldnt the goal be to elect a better president rather than one with (D)?

I sincerely doubt any of the tweleventyzillion candidates now running to become the Democratic nominee could be worse than Trump (or Pence for that matter). Hell, even Bill Weld is guaranteed to be a better president than Trump is, simply by not being Trump.

[Duhon]

But shouldnt the goal be to elect a better president rather than one with (D)?

People vote for their reasons not yours.

It's not as if he's wrong, though; it's only that extraordinarily depressing and revolting times call for extraordinary (if not quite desperate) measures.

[Valrifell]

There was a poll at the beginning of May from Arizona.

https://ohpredictive.com/press-releases ... n-arizona/

Trump was beating every Democrat running by at least 5 points. Except Joe Biden. He was ahead of Trump by 5 points IN ARIZONA.

Biden uber alles.

Arizona has been trending purplish these past few cycles, what's more surprising is that it's only Biden leading.

[Nova Cyberia]

The US Treasury is now in open defiance of the law.

LOCK HIM UP!

They have a legal obligation to hand over someone's tax returns?

[Aclion]

But shouldnt the goal be to elect a better president rather than one with (D)?

People vote for their reasons not yours.

But by the reasoning of Democrats he's done pretty well.

[Galloism]

The US Treasury is now in open defiance of the law.

LOCK HIM UP!

They have a legal obligation to hand over someone's tax returns?

Yes, actually.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103

You can find the relevant provisions in section (f).

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

(4) Agents of committees and submission of information to Senate or House of Representatives
(A) Committees described in paragraph (1)
Any committee described in paragraph (1) or the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation shall have the authority, acting directly, or by or through such examiners or agents as the chairman of such committee or such chief of staff may designate or appoint, to inspect returns and return information at such time and in such manner as may be determined by such chairman or chief of staff. Any return or return information obtained by or on behalf of such committee pursuant to the provisions of this subsection may be submitted by the committee to the Senate or the House of Representatives, or to both. The Joint Committee on Taxation may also submit such return or return information to any other committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(B) Other committees
Any committee or subcommittee described in paragraph (3) shall have the right, acting directly, or by or through no more than four examiners or agents, designated or appointed in writing in equal numbers by the chairman and ranking minority member of such committee or subcommittee, to inspect returns and return information at such time and in such manner as may be determined by such chairman and ranking minority member. Any return or return information obtained by or on behalf of such committee or subcommittee pursuant to the provisions of this subsection may be submitted by the committee to the Senate or the House of Representatives, or to both, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer, shall be furnished to the Senate or the House of Representatives only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(5) Disclosure by whistleblower
Any person who otherwise has or had access to any return or return information under this section may disclose such return or return information to a committee referred to in paragraph (1) or any individual authorized to receive or inspect information under paragraph (4)(A) if such person believes such return or return information may relate to possible misconduct, maladministration, or taxpayer abuse.

[Nova Cyberia]

They have a legal obligation to hand over someone's tax returns?

Yes, actually.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103

You can find the relevant provisions in section (f).

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

(4) Agents of committees and submission of information to Senate or House of Representatives
(A) Committees described in paragraph (1)
Any committee described in paragraph (1) or the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation shall have the authority, acting directly, or by or through such examiners or agents as the chairman of such committee or such chief of staff may designate or appoint, to inspect returns and return information at such time and in such manner as may be determined by such chairman or chief of staff. Any return or return information obtained by or on behalf of such committee pursuant to the provisions of this subsection may be submitted by the committee to the Senate or the House of Representatives, or to both. The Joint Committee on Taxation may also submit such return or return information to any other committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(B) Other committees
Any committee or subcommittee described in paragraph (3) shall have the right, acting directly, or by or through no more than four examiners or agents, designated or appointed in writing in equal numbers by the chairman and ranking minority member of such committee or subcommittee, to inspect returns and return information at such time and in such manner as may be determined by such chairman and ranking minority member. Any return or return information obtained by or on behalf of such committee or subcommittee pursuant to the provisions of this subsection may be submitted by the committee to the Senate or the House of Representatives, or to both, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer, shall be furnished to the Senate or the House of Representatives only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(5) Disclosure by whistleblower
Any person who otherwise has or had access to any return or return information under this section may disclose such return or return information to a committee referred to in paragraph (1) or any individual authorized to receive or inspect information under paragraph (4)(A) if such person believes such return or return information may relate to possible misconduct, maladministration, or taxpayer abuse.

Hm...

except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

[Galloism]

Yes, actually.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103

You can find the relevant provisions in section (f).

Hm...

except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

Yes, they will have to deliver it to the committee in a closed session.

[Telconi]

People vote for their reasons not yours.

It's not as if he's wrong, though; it's only that extraordinarily depressing and revolting times call for extraordinary (if not quite desperate) measures.

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

[Telconi]

Hm...

Yes, they will have to deliver it to the committee in a closed session.

Then only the committee will know is shame.

[Fartsniffage]

It's not as if he's wrong, though; it's only that extraordinarily depressing and revolting times call for extraordinary (if not quite desperate) measures.

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

Donald Trump isn't just the other side. He's a whole new low in American politics.

[Galloism]

Yes, they will have to deliver it to the committee in a closed session.

Then only the committee will know is shame.

Correct.

But should the committee find something, they could do something about it, make certain recommendations to the full congress, etc, but couldn't tell anyone what they found.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

Donald Trump isn't just the other side. He's a whole new low in American politics.

Not really.

He is a dipshit, but there are worse depending on what you count as the "lowest low" in American politics.

[Fartsniffage]

Donald Trump isn't just the other side. He's a whole new low in American politics.

Not really.

He is a dipshit, but there are worse depending on what you count as the "lowest low" in American politics.

Which President are you thinking of?

[Galloism]

Not really.

He is a dipshit, but there are worse depending on what you count as the "lowest low" in American politics.

Which President are you thinking of?

That guy named Andrew comes to mind.

[Telconi]

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

Donald Trump isn't just the other side. He's a whole new low in American politics.

We're talking about real life here, in any part of reality not a Hillary for President advertisement, he's just the logical evolution of ideology.

[Fartsniffage]

Which President are you thinking of?

That guy named Andrew comes to mind.

I kinda give a pass to people that far back due to different times. It's why I don't believe the founding fathers are all a bunch of scum due to their treason and their acceptance of slavery.

But if the argument is that Trump is better than a guy that didn't help the ex-slaves just after to abolition of it in the US then he's still not coming up looking shiney...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Which President are you thinking of?

That guy named Andrew comes to mind.

Both Andrews, Buchanan, Garfield, Nixon, Roosevelt (the 1940 guy), the guy behind the Chinese Exclusion Act....

[Galloism]

That guy named Andrew comes to mind.

I kinda give a pass to people that far back due to different times. It's why I don't believe the founding fathers are all a bunch of scum due to their treason and their acceptance of slavery.

But if the argument is that Trump is better than a guy that didn't help the ex-slaves just after to abolition of it in the US then he's still not coming up looking shiney...

Well, sure.

But worst ever is a bit of a stretch. Just really bad in modern times.

Except on the economy. That's been going well.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I kinda give a pass to people that far back due to different times. It's why I don't believe the founding fathers are all a bunch of scum due to their treason and their acceptance of slavery.

But if the argument is that Trump is better than a guy that didn't help the ex-slaves just after to abolition of it in the US then he's still not coming up looking shiney...

Well, sure.

But worst ever is a bit of a stretch. Just really bad in modern times.

Except on the economy. That's been going well.

^ This

"The worst ever" or "a new low" in American politics he isn't. We already have had lows nowhere near what Trump has done in how objectionable they were and would make Trump blush.

[Fartsniffage]

I kinda give a pass to people that far back due to different times. It's why I don't believe the founding fathers are all a bunch of scum due to their treason and their acceptance of slavery.

But if the argument is that Trump is better than a guy that didn't help the ex-slaves just after to abolition of it in the US then he's still not coming up looking shiney...

Well, sure.

But worst ever is a bit of a stretch. Just really bad in modern times.

Except on the economy. That's been going well.

I didn't say worst ever. I said a new low. That takes into account the changes in society and morality.

Most of the worst ever are seen so due to current societal beliefs, Trump is modern and is still falling far short of them. A new low.

[Shrillland]

That guy named Andrew comes to mind.

I kinda give a pass to people that far back due to different times. It's why I don't believe the founding fathers are all a bunch of scum due to their treason and their acceptance of slavery.

But if the argument is that Trump is better than a guy that didn't help the ex-slaves just after to abolition of it in the US then he's still not coming up looking shiney...

In Jackson's case, I don't. First, many people were just as shocked, horrified, and considered his actions morally repugnant even then. Second, he threw my ancestors out of their homes and forced them to hide in North Carolina.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, sure.

But worst ever is a bit of a stretch. Just really bad in modern times.

Except on the economy. That's been going well.

I didn't say worst ever. I said a new low. That takes into account the changes in society and morality.

Most of the worst ever are seen so due to current societal beliefs, Trump is modern and is still falling far short of them. A new low.

If you are going to go with "but social and moral context matters", then William G Harding wins hands down as having an even more corrupt administration than Trump, even if more personable.

[Duhon]

It's not as if he's wrong, though; it's only that extraordinarily depressing and revolting times call for extraordinary (if not quite desperate) measures.

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

There are sides and then there is Trump.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Most people don't see the other side winning the presidency as "Extraordinarily depressing and revolting times"

There are sides and then there is Trump.

Can you at least describe something that Trump has done that makes him so big and horrible other than shooting himself in the foot constantly with stupid policies and half-baked excuses for his moral failures that makes him as bad as both sides combined?