by Thuzbekistan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:21 am
by South Ccanda » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:28 am
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:44 am
Thuzbekistan wrote:Now, I'm not trying to be prejudiced against African Americans or the poor- the latter which, until very recently, I was a part of. What I believe happens is that, quite possibly due to a racist past, Blacks are simply less likely to make the amount of money to buy and maintain high value homes.
If CNN really wanted to show that a decline in property values in black communities is racist, they would need to do a proper study. Take communities of equal value and good areas and see if race is the major factor in property value decline.
According to our analysis, differences in home and neighborhood quality do not fully explain the devaluation of homes in black neighborhoods. Homes of similar quality in neighborhoods with similar amenities are worth 23 percent less ($48,000 per home on average, amounting to $156 billion in cumulative losses) in majority black neighborhoods, compared to those with very few or no black residents.
But let's assume that it is because of racism. CNN calls for us to address the racism. But how? We would once again have to isolate how racism is playing a part in 2018 and then tackle it. But instead of offering a solution, they just say its racist and walk away.
If we can detect how much racism depletes wealth from black homeowners, we can begin to address bigotry principally by giving black homeowners and policymakers a target price for redress.
by Thuzbekistan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:53 am
Ifreann wrote:Thuzbekistan wrote:Now, I'm not trying to be prejudiced against African Americans or the poor- the latter which, until very recently, I was a part of. What I believe happens is that, quite possibly due to a racist past, Blacks are simply less likely to make the amount of money to buy and maintain high value homes.
So property in black neighbourhoods isn't worth less because of racism, it's just that black people are poor, quite possibly due to racism.
So really it is because of racism.If CNN really wanted to show that a decline in property values in black communities is racist, they would need to do a proper study. Take communities of equal value and good areas and see if race is the major factor in property value decline.According to our analysis, differences in home and neighborhood quality do not fully explain the devaluation of homes in black neighborhoods. Homes of similar quality in neighborhoods with similar amenities are worth 23 percent less ($48,000 per home on average, amounting to $156 billion in cumulative losses) in majority black neighborhoods, compared to those with very few or no black residents.But let's assume that it is because of racism. CNN calls for us to address the racism. But how? We would once again have to isolate how racism is playing a part in 2018 and then tackle it. But instead of offering a solution, they just say its racist and walk away.If we can detect how much racism depletes wealth from black homeowners, we can begin to address bigotry principally by giving black homeowners and policymakers a target price for redress.
by Darussalam » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:56 am
Thuzbekistan wrote:From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.
by South Ccanda » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:13 am
Darussalam wrote:Thuzbekistan wrote:From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.
People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!
by Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:16 am
Darussalam wrote:Thuzbekistan wrote:From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.
People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!
by Petrolheadia » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:19 am
Darussalam wrote:Thuzbekistan wrote:From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.
People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:21 am
Thuzbekistan wrote:Ifreann wrote:So property in black neighbourhoods isn't worth less because of racism, it's just that black people are poor, quite possibly due to racism.
So really it is because of racism.
1. The article was attempting to say lenders are unfair towards black communities, which is just untrue. The fact that black people are more likely to be poor has nothing to do with current day racism IMO, but from the past. But that isnt what the article was trying to say. It was attempting to say that racism in these communities causes property values to fall.
2. Again, they say similar
without actually giving examples of how racism could even be a part.
We examined homes of similar quality in congruent neighborhoods — with the exception of the racial demographics — to make an apples-to-apples comparison between places where the share of the black population is 50% or higher and those where there are little to no black residents.
Are the schools of similar value? Becausec 23 percent is definitely not the 50 percent they are claiming and similar dies not mean the same.
3. Note that they say "how much" racism depletes wealth, not how.
We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes. De jure and de facto segregation — racially restrictive housing covenants that prohibited blacks from buying in certain areas throughout the 20th century — and racially biased redlining from the 1930s beyond the passage of the Fair Housing Act of 1968 — which deemed majority-black neighborhoods too risky for mortgage lenders — isolated blacks in areas that realized lower levels of investment than their white counterparts.
They have assumed the premise without giving actual evidence that it is racism that does this. I don't even know how the last part of that statement would be a solution anyhow. Giving them s target price for redress? People buy the houses they can afford and the market and area determines their pricing. If there have been foreclosures in the area, it reduces EVERYONES property values. So again, we would need to see WHY there is a disparity before we could say its racism.
by Page » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:21 am
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:26 am
Page wrote:The disparity can be partially explained by racist policies of previous generations, which still have residual effects to this day. How much the racism of today affects the disparity, "to some degree" would be an accurate answer, but to exactly what degree is not an easy thing to determine.
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:30 am
South Ccanda wrote:Darussalam wrote:People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!
I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.
by Petrolheadia » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:32 am
Ifreann wrote:South Ccanda wrote:I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.
Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.
by Thuzbekistan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:33 am
Ifreann wrote:I cannot possibly award the OP enough points for complaining that CNN didn't do a study to inform this article, which is written by one of the people who carried out the study that this article is about. And that's before we get to the bonus points for blaming CNN, who did not write this piece, for not solving racism, just publishing an article about the impact of racism.
This is beautiful, OP. Just amazing.Thuzbekistan wrote:1. The article was attempting to say lenders are unfair towards black communities, which is just untrue. The fact that black people are more likely to be poor has nothing to do with current day racism IMO, but from the past. But that isnt what the article was trying to say. It was attempting to say that racism in these communities causes property values to fall.
Congratulations on failing to recognise the past tense.2. Again, they say similar
The same person wrote both of those things.without actually giving examples of how racism could even be a part.
Yeah, how could racism even be a part of the disparity in property values between neighbourhoods that are identical other than their racial demographics?We examined homes of similar quality in congruent neighborhoods — with the exception of the racial demographics — to make an apples-to-apples comparison between places where the share of the black population is 50% or higher and those where there are little to no black residents.Are the schools of similar value? Becausec 23 percent is definitely not the 50 percent they are claiming and similar dies not mean the same.
You really need to try actually reading this shit instead of picking out a few numbers and words and then just guessing what the rest says.3. Note that they say "how much" racism depletes wealth, not how.We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes. De jure and de facto segregation — racially restrictive housing covenants that prohibited blacks from buying in certain areas throughout the 20th century — and racially biased redlining from the 1930s beyond the passage of the Fair Housing Act of 1968 — which deemed majority-black neighborhoods too risky for mortgage lenders — isolated blacks in areas that realized lower levels of investment than their white counterparts.They have assumed the premise without giving actual evidence that it is racism that does this. I don't even know how the last part of that statement would be a solution anyhow. Giving them s target price for redress? People buy the houses they can afford and the market and area determines their pricing. If there have been foreclosures in the area, it reduces EVERYONES property values. So again, we would need to see WHY there is a disparity before we could say its racism.
How can we possibly know whether racism in the past still has effects today? Maybe we could, like, compare majority black neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods with few if any black people.
It is impressive how badly you are reading this article. Have you considered becoming a YouTuber? I understand that there is a pretty big audience for people reacting to articles about racism or sexism without reading them.
by South Ccanda » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:41 am
Ifreann wrote:South Ccanda wrote:I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.
Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am
Thuzbekistan wrote:Ifreann wrote:I cannot possibly award the OP enough points for complaining that CNN didn't do a study to inform this article, which is written by one of the people who carried out the study that this article is about. And that's before we get to the bonus points for blaming CNN, who did not write this piece, for not solving racism, just publishing an article about the impact of racism.
This is beautiful, OP. Just amazing.
Congratulations on failing to recognise the past tense.
The same person wrote both of those things.
Yeah, how could racism even be a part of the disparity in property values between neighbourhoods that are identical other than their racial demographics?
You really need to try actually reading this shit instead of picking out a few numbers and words and then just guessing what the rest says.
How can we possibly know whether racism in the past still has effects today? Maybe we could, like, compare majority black neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods with few if any black people.
It is impressive how badly you are reading this article. Have you considered becoming a YouTuber? I understand that there is a pretty big audience for people reacting to articles about racism or sexism without reading them.
So, to begin with, your condescending tone has been noted.
1. This article is written by a CNN correspondent in business for CNN business. Not sure how they didnt write this.
Andre Perry is a David M. Rubenstein Fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program. The opinions expressed in this article are his own.
Also, they didnt do a study or an accurate analysis beyond "these black communities have lower housing prices. Racism."
We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes.
2. Regarding the similar comment, they do not provide the details of the factors that affect housing prices in what they call examples. You say they are identical, but they dont show that. They say they did an apples to apples and found that ot wasnt 50 percent less, but 23 percent less in those cases. I again pointed out that without knowing g what communities these are, we cannot know what other factors are affecting this.
4. That we know racism happened in the past does nor mean it is currently ongoing. That remains to be shown. Just comparing black communities to white communities is not an honest way to do this unless you take all factors into consideration.
Finally, I'm gonna ask that you please drop the condescending tone and the sarcasm. It just makes an honest discussion frustrating.
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:36 am
South Ccanda wrote:Ifreann wrote:Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.
Yes, Ifreann, because that's word for word what I said.
First of all, my parents worked hard for everything they owned, even until death in the case of my father. I never said their hard work would equate in increasing home value, I said they could move out of their situation entirely and/or work on making their neighborhood a better place to live. And yes, while our racist past may have landed them in their current situation, the very not-racist present has done nothing to keep them there, especially considering we have several college campuses near us with only a tuition of 4,000 dollars, they have been given a great opportunity to make better lives for themselves and their prosperity.
by Liriena » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:40 am
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Chernoslavia » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:40 am
South Ccanda wrote:Darussalam wrote:People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!
I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.
by Chernoslavia » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:42 am
Liriena wrote:Yes, it's racist. It's one of the long-term consequences of racist policies like redlining.
Glad we had this conversation.
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:46 am
by Rojava Free State » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:49 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:55 am
Liriena wrote:Yes, it's racist. It's one of the long-term consequences of racist policies like redlining.
Glad we had this conversation.
by Thuzbekistan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:00 am
Ifreann wrote:Petrolheadia wrote:See: Asians.
A very fair comparison, because Asians and blacks have basically the same history in the US. I mean, there's the slight difference that whereas blacks were brought to America in chains, Asians were banned from immigrating to the United States until relatively recently. And I guess you can kinda see how that means that most of the Asians in America are, by definition, well off enough to be able to afford to move to America.Thuzbekistan wrote:So, to begin with, your condescending tone has been noted.
Thank goodness, I was worried that you'd fail to read that as well.1. This article is written by a CNN correspondent in business for CNN business. Not sure how they didnt write this.Andre Perry is a David M. Rubenstein Fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program. The opinions expressed in this article are his own.Also, they didnt do a study or an accurate analysis beyond "these black communities have lower housing prices. Racism."
They property values are what they studied. And they didn't conclude that the difference in property values is because of racism, it is a known fact that the differences are because of racism.We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes.2. Regarding the similar comment, they do not provide the details of the factors that affect housing prices in what they call examples. You say they are identical, but they dont show that. They say they did an apples to apples and found that ot wasnt 50 percent less, but 23 percent less in those cases. I again pointed out that without knowing g what communities these are, we cannot know what other factors are affecting this.
You're right, they don't give the full report of their findings in a CNN article about their findings. For that you'd have to click the link in the article that goes to the Brookings website, where you can find the PDF of their report.4. That we know racism happened in the past does nor mean it is currently ongoing. That remains to be shown. Just comparing black communities to white communities is not an honest way to do this unless you take all factors into consideration.
Well one, fucking duh it's currently ongoing, and two, the study isn't seeking to prove that racism is still currently ongoing, it isn't seeking to study just what effect the racism has been.Finally, I'm gonna ask that you please drop the condescending tone and the sarcasm. It just makes an honest discussion frustrating.
You don't know frustration until you've had to explain to an ostensibly literate adult that the answers to all their questions are in the article they claim to be responding to, if they would just fucking read what it actually says.
And really, there is no honest discussion here. There can be no worthwhile discussion with someone who thinks that effects of centuries of American history just stopped at some point and went away.
by Thuzbekistan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:01 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:yes, it's racist. You've got deliberate sabotage, redlining, generational poverty and all that crap. The taxes are all kinds of fucked and benefit the wealthy too, so its not like poorer whites can look at it and go;
"Well hot dayum, I can live there and save a couple of grand a year and all I gots to do is not be a massive racist?" and diversify the neighborhood.
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