Is housing value disparity between Blacks and Whites racist?

[Thuzbekistan]

Perspectives: Homeowners have lost $156 billion by living in a 'black neighborhood'

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/perspect ... index.html


In the above article, CNN points to racism for the reason largely black communities live in homes that are worth half of what white communities own. They say that we must address the racism. However, I dont think racism has much to do with this.

I am a homeowner (white) in a largely black community in Memphis. From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities. So rather than supposedly racist lenders not valuing homes properly because they are black areas, I think it is mostly the income disparity between the races that has the most impact. The fact that the area is black is not why property values fall, but because as lower income people come, so does crime. Another thing for lower income families is that it becomes harder to take care of your home. Who cares, for instance, if the yard is looking bad and your driveway cracked if you can barely pay your mortgage?

Now, I'm not trying to be prejudiced against African Americans or the poor- the latter which, until very recently, I was a part of. What I believe happens is that, quite possibly due to a racist past, Blacks are simply less likely to make the amount of money to buy and maintain high value homes.

If CNN really wanted to show that a decline in property values in black communities is racist, they would need to do a proper study. Take communities of equal value and good areas and see if race is the major factor in property value decline. Or, do property values decline because the area itself declines, the schools reduce in quality, or the economy in that area tanks? There are many factors to property value and to assume race even is a factor, you need to isolate it and study it.

But let's assume that it is because of racism. CNN calls for us to address the racism. But how? We would once again have to isolate how racism is playing a part in 2018 and then tackle it. But instead of offering a solution, they just say its racist and walk away.

Ultimately, I dont think racism has anything to do with it and I dont think that simply comparing values in black and white communities while ignoring all other factors is a good way to look at this.

[South Ccanda]

I totally agree with you, OP.Having lived in two different houses because my parents separated, I lived in a trailer with my dad on the weekends and a brick house with my mother and her new husband the rest of the week, who made much more money than my father. Race has nothing to do with it, at least not anymore.

[Ifreann]

Now, I'm not trying to be prejudiced against African Americans or the poor- the latter which, until very recently, I was a part of. What I believe happens is that, quite possibly due to a racist past, Blacks are simply less likely to make the amount of money to buy and maintain high value homes.

So property in black neighbourhoods isn't worth less because of racism, it's just that black people are poor, quite possibly due to racism.

So really it is because of racism.

If CNN really wanted to show that a decline in property values in black communities is racist, they would need to do a proper study. Take communities of equal value and good areas and see if race is the major factor in property value decline.

According to our analysis, differences in home and neighborhood quality do not fully explain the devaluation of homes in black neighborhoods. Homes of similar quality in neighborhoods with similar amenities are worth 23 percent less ($48,000 per home on average, amounting to $156 billion in cumulative losses) in majority black neighborhoods, compared to those with very few or no black residents.

But let's assume that it is because of racism. CNN calls for us to address the racism. But how? We would once again have to isolate how racism is playing a part in 2018 and then tackle it. But instead of offering a solution, they just say its racist and walk away.

If we can detect how much racism depletes wealth from black homeowners, we can begin to address bigotry principally by giving black homeowners and policymakers a target price for redress.

[Thuzbekistan]

Now, I'm not trying to be prejudiced against African Americans or the poor- the latter which, until very recently, I was a part of. What I believe happens is that, quite possibly due to a racist past, Blacks are simply less likely to make the amount of money to buy and maintain high value homes.

So property in black neighbourhoods isn't worth less because of racism, it's just that black people are poor, quite possibly due to racism.

So really it is because of racism.

If CNN really wanted to show that a decline in property values in black communities is racist, they would need to do a proper study. Take communities of equal value and good areas and see if race is the major factor in property value decline.

According to our analysis, differences in home and neighborhood quality do not fully explain the devaluation of homes in black neighborhoods. Homes of similar quality in neighborhoods with similar amenities are worth 23 percent less ($48,000 per home on average, amounting to $156 billion in cumulative losses) in majority black neighborhoods, compared to those with very few or no black residents.

But let's assume that it is because of racism. CNN calls for us to address the racism. But how? We would once again have to isolate how racism is playing a part in 2018 and then tackle it. But instead of offering a solution, they just say its racist and walk away.

If we can detect how much racism depletes wealth from black homeowners, we can begin to address bigotry principally by giving black homeowners and policymakers a target price for redress.

1. The article was attempting to say lenders are unfair towards black communities, which is just untrue. The fact that black people are more likely to be poor has nothing to do with current day racism IMO, but from the past. But that isnt what the article was trying to say. It was attempting to say that racism in these communities causes property values to fall.

2. Again, they say similar without actually giving examples of how racism could even be a part. Are the schools of similar value? Becausec 23 percent is definitely not the 50 percent they are claiming and similar dies not mean the same.

3. Note that they say "how much" racism depletes wealth, not how. They have assumed the premise without giving actual evidence that it is racism that does this. I don't even know how the last part of that statement would be a solution anyhow. Giving them s target price for redress? People buy the houses they can afford and the market and area determines their pricing. If there have been foreclosures in the area, it reduces EVERYONES property values. So again, we would need to see WHY there is a disparity before we could say its racism.

[Darussalam]

From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

[South Ccanda]

From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

This would be a really good point if it weren't something that happens universally across the nation.
Racism isn't the only explanation, but it is a large contributing factor.

[Petrolheadia]

From what I see, it is not that black people exist in a community that reduces the value, but the quality of the area. In general, black residents make far less than their white neighbors in other communities.

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

For those using this argument, affluent Asian and Jewish neighbourhoods are this way.

[Ifreann]

I cannot possibly award the OP enough points for complaining that CNN didn't do a study to inform this article, which is written by one of the people who carried out the study that this article is about. And that's before we get to the bonus points for blaming CNN, who did not write this piece, for not solving racism, just publishing an article about the impact of racism.

This is beautiful, OP. Just amazing.

---

So property in black neighbourhoods isn't worth less because of racism, it's just that black people are poor, quite possibly due to racism.

So really it is because of racism.

1. The article was attempting to say lenders are unfair towards black communities, which is just untrue. The fact that black people are more likely to be poor has nothing to do with current day racism IMO, but from the past. But that isnt what the article was trying to say. It was attempting to say that racism in these communities causes property values to fall.

Congratulations on failing to recognise the past tense.

2. Again, they say similar

The same person wrote both of those things.

without actually giving examples of how racism could even be a part.

Yeah, how could racism even be a part of the disparity in property values between neighbourhoods that are identical other than their racial demographics?

We examined homes of similar quality in congruent neighborhoods — with the exception of the racial demographics — to make an apples-to-apples comparison between places where the share of the black population is 50% or higher and those where there are little to no black residents.

Are the schools of similar value? Becausec 23 percent is definitely not the 50 percent they are claiming and similar dies not mean the same.

You really need to try actually reading this shit instead of picking out a few numbers and words and then just guessing what the rest says.

3. Note that they say "how much" racism depletes wealth, not how.

We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes. De jure and de facto segregation — racially restrictive housing covenants that prohibited blacks from buying in certain areas throughout the 20th century — and racially biased redlining from the 1930s beyond the passage of the Fair Housing Act of 1968 — which deemed majority-black neighborhoods too risky for mortgage lenders — isolated blacks in areas that realized lower levels of investment than their white counterparts.

They have assumed the premise without giving actual evidence that it is racism that does this. I don't even know how the last part of that statement would be a solution anyhow. Giving them s target price for redress? People buy the houses they can afford and the market and area determines their pricing. If there have been foreclosures in the area, it reduces EVERYONES property values. So again, we would need to see WHY there is a disparity before we could say its racism.

How can we possibly know whether racism in the past still has effects today? Maybe we could, like, compare majority black neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods with few if any black people.

It is impressive how badly you are reading this article. Have you considered becoming a YouTuber? I understand that there is a pretty big audience for people reacting to articles about racism or sexism without reading them.

[Page]

The disparity can be partially explained by racist policies of previous generations, which still have residual effects to this day. How much the racism of today affects the disparity, "to some degree" would be an accurate answer, but to exactly what degree is not an easy thing to determine.

[Ifreann]

The disparity can be partially explained by racist policies of previous generations, which still have residual effects to this day. How much the racism of today affects the disparity, "to some degree" would be an accurate answer, but to exactly what degree is not an easy thing to determine.

Maybe someone should do a study.


Oh, wait, they did, and that's literally what this article is about.

[Ifreann]

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.

Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.

[Petrolheadia]

I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.

Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.

See: Asians.

[Thuzbekistan]

I cannot possibly award the OP enough points for complaining that CNN didn't do a study to inform this article, which is written by one of the people who carried out the study that this article is about. And that's before we get to the bonus points for blaming CNN, who did not write this piece, for not solving racism, just publishing an article about the impact of racism.

This is beautiful, OP. Just amazing.

---

1. The article was attempting to say lenders are unfair towards black communities, which is just untrue. The fact that black people are more likely to be poor has nothing to do with current day racism IMO, but from the past. But that isnt what the article was trying to say. It was attempting to say that racism in these communities causes property values to fall.

Congratulations on failing to recognise the past tense.

2. Again, they say similar

The same person wrote both of those things.

without actually giving examples of how racism could even be a part.

Yeah, how could racism even be a part of the disparity in property values between neighbourhoods that are identical other than their racial demographics?

We examined homes of similar quality in congruent neighborhoods — with the exception of the racial demographics — to make an apples-to-apples comparison between places where the share of the black population is 50% or higher and those where there are little to no black residents.

Are the schools of similar value? Becausec 23 percent is definitely not the 50 percent they are claiming and similar dies not mean the same.

You really need to try actually reading this shit instead of picking out a few numbers and words and then just guessing what the rest says.

3. Note that they say "how much" racism depletes wealth, not how.

We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes. De jure and de facto segregation — racially restrictive housing covenants that prohibited blacks from buying in certain areas throughout the 20th century — and racially biased redlining from the 1930s beyond the passage of the Fair Housing Act of 1968 — which deemed majority-black neighborhoods too risky for mortgage lenders — isolated blacks in areas that realized lower levels of investment than their white counterparts.

They have assumed the premise without giving actual evidence that it is racism that does this. I don't even know how the last part of that statement would be a solution anyhow. Giving them s target price for redress? People buy the houses they can afford and the market and area determines their pricing. If there have been foreclosures in the area, it reduces EVERYONES property values. So again, we would need to see WHY there is a disparity before we could say its racism.

How can we possibly know whether racism in the past still has effects today? Maybe we could, like, compare majority black neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods with few if any black people.

It is impressive how badly you are reading this article. Have you considered becoming a YouTuber? I understand that there is a pretty big audience for people reacting to articles about racism or sexism without reading them.

So, to begin with, your condescending tone has been noted.

1. This article is written by a CNN correspondent in business for CNN business. Not sure how they didnt write this. Also, they didnt do a study or an accurate analysis beyond "these black communities have lower housing prices. Racism."

2. Regarding the similar comment, they do not provide the details of the factors that affect housing prices in what they call examples. You say they are identical, but they dont show that. They say they did an apples to apples and found that ot wasnt 50 percent less, but 23 percent less in those cases. I again pointed out that without knowing g what communities these are, we cannot know what other factors are affecting this.

4. That we know racism happened in the past does nor mean it is currently ongoing. That remains to be shown. Just comparing black communities to white communities is not an honest way to do this unless you take all factors into consideration.

Finally, I'm gonna ask that you please drop the condescending tone and the sarcasm. It just makes an honest discussion frustrating.

[South Ccanda]

I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.

Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.

Yes, Ifreann, because that's word for word what I said.

First of all, my parents worked hard for everything they owned, even until death in the case of my father. I never said their hard work would equate in increasing home value, I said they could move out of their situation entirely and/or work on making their neighborhood a better place to live. And yes, while our racist past may have landed them in their current situation, the very not-racist present has done nothing to keep them there, especially considering we have several college campuses near us with only a tuition of 4,000 dollars, they have been given a great opportunity to make better lives for themselves and their prosperity.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.

See: Asians.

A very fair comparison, because Asians and blacks have basically the same history in the US. I mean, there's the slight difference that whereas blacks were brought to America in chains, Asians were banned from immigrating to the United States until relatively recently. And I guess you can kinda see how that means that most of the Asians in America are, by definition, well off enough to be able to afford to move to America.

---

I cannot possibly award the OP enough points for complaining that CNN didn't do a study to inform this article, which is written by one of the people who carried out the study that this article is about. And that's before we get to the bonus points for blaming CNN, who did not write this piece, for not solving racism, just publishing an article about the impact of racism.

This is beautiful, OP. Just amazing.

---

Congratulations on failing to recognise the past tense.



The same person wrote both of those things.

Yeah, how could racism even be a part of the disparity in property values between neighbourhoods that are identical other than their racial demographics?


You really need to try actually reading this shit instead of picking out a few numbers and words and then just guessing what the rest says.




How can we possibly know whether racism in the past still has effects today? Maybe we could, like, compare majority black neighbourhoods to neighbourhoods with few if any black people.

It is impressive how badly you are reading this article. Have you considered becoming a YouTuber? I understand that there is a pretty big audience for people reacting to articles about racism or sexism without reading them.

So, to begin with, your condescending tone has been noted.

Thank goodness, I was worried that you'd fail to read that as well.

1. This article is written by a CNN correspondent in business for CNN business. Not sure how they didnt write this.

Andre Perry is a David M. Rubenstein Fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program. The opinions expressed in this article are his own.

Also, they didnt do a study or an accurate analysis beyond "these black communities have lower housing prices. Racism."

They property values are what they studied. And they didn't conclude that the difference in property values is because of racism, it is a known fact that the differences are because of racism.

We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes.

2. Regarding the similar comment, they do not provide the details of the factors that affect housing prices in what they call examples. You say they are identical, but they dont show that. They say they did an apples to apples and found that ot wasnt 50 percent less, but 23 percent less in those cases. I again pointed out that without knowing g what communities these are, we cannot know what other factors are affecting this.

You're right, they don't give the full report of their findings in a CNN article about their findings. For that you'd have to click the link in the article that goes to the Brookings website, where you can find the PDF of their report.

4. That we know racism happened in the past does nor mean it is currently ongoing. That remains to be shown. Just comparing black communities to white communities is not an honest way to do this unless you take all factors into consideration.

Well one, fucking duh it's currently ongoing, and two, the study isn't seeking to prove that racism is still currently ongoing, it is seeking to study just what effect the racism has been.

Finally, I'm gonna ask that you please drop the condescending tone and the sarcasm. It just makes an honest discussion frustrating.

You don't know frustration until you've had to explain to an ostensibly literate adult that the answers to all their questions are in the article they claim to be responding to, if they would just fucking read what it actually says.

And really, there is no honest discussion here. There can be no worthwhile discussion with someone who thinks that effects of centuries of American history just stopped at some point and went away.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, it's black people's own fault for not overcoming racism. All they need to do is work hard and then their home will double in value, as will the homes of all their neighbours, and they'll easily be able to sell up and move away.

Yes, Ifreann, because that's word for word what I said.

First of all, my parents worked hard for everything they owned, even until death in the case of my father. I never said their hard work would equate in increasing home value, I said they could move out of their situation entirely and/or work on making their neighborhood a better place to live. And yes, while our racist past may have landed them in their current situation, the very not-racist present has done nothing to keep them there, especially considering we have several college campuses near us with only a tuition of 4,000 dollars, they have been given a great opportunity to make better lives for themselves and their prosperity.

You've basically got the answer yourself. Your racist past has landed them in their current situation, with less money, and less valuable assets, so even if we pretend that racism vanished at some point, which it obviously hasn't, black people can work just as hard as your parents did, or harder, and won't get as far. So maybe it's to be expected that black youths today don't have faith that hard work will allow them to advance themselves.

[Liriena]

Yes, it's racist. It's one of the long-term consequences of racist policies like redlining.

Glad we had this conversation.

[Chernoslavia]

People you address will just retort back that this is because of racism. Because God forbid there are other possible reasons for a community to be poorer relative to other communities!

I mean, just think about it. My school is right next to am African American neighborhood, so there's obviously many black people here. Just from listening to them, there are some of them are highly intelligent, but because they keep telling themselves that "Society is against them", they don't really apply themselves at anything. In fact, 5 famous NFL football players have came from my school. They have the opportunity to leave the neighborhood, but, they just won't.

Pretty much this, has nothing to do with ''institutionalized racism'' or some other bullshit.

[Chernoslavia]

Yes, it's racist. It's one of the long-term consequences of racist policies like redlining.

Glad we had this conversation.

Source?

[Ostroeuropa]

yes, it's racist. You've got deliberate sabotage, redlining, generational poverty and all that crap. The taxes are all kinds of fucked and benefit the wealthy too, so its not like poorer whites can look at it and go;
"Well hot dayum, I can live there and save a couple of grand a year and all I gots to do is not be a massive racist?" and diversify the neighborhood.

[Rojava Free State]

Housing values are lower in heavily African American neighborhoods because of several important factors, none of which are "MUH WACISM!"

1. homicide rates in these areas tend to be comparable to foreign warzones
2. The houses are often smaller sizes, about 1000 to 1500 square feet
3. Houses are closer together
4. Many of the homes are in poor condition, either because they were cheaply built or because the previous homeowner didnt take care of the place

But nah, its totally none of that. It's cause white people just love to waste their time messing with black people for no reason

[Ifreann]

Yes, it's racist. It's one of the long-term consequences of racist policies like redlining.

Glad we had this conversation.

But you didn't prove that racism exists! D:

[Thuzbekistan]

See: Asians.

A very fair comparison, because Asians and blacks have basically the same history in the US. I mean, there's the slight difference that whereas blacks were brought to America in chains, Asians were banned from immigrating to the United States until relatively recently. And I guess you can kinda see how that means that most of the Asians in America are, by definition, well off enough to be able to afford to move to America.

---

So, to begin with, your condescending tone has been noted.

Thank goodness, I was worried that you'd fail to read that as well.

1. This article is written by a CNN correspondent in business for CNN business. Not sure how they didnt write this.

Andre Perry is a David M. Rubenstein Fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program. The opinions expressed in this article are his own.

Also, they didnt do a study or an accurate analysis beyond "these black communities have lower housing prices. Racism."

They property values are what they studied. And they didn't conclude that the difference in property values is because of racism, it is a known fact that the differences are because of racism.

We've known for some time that racism limited blacks' housing options in ways that lowered the value of homes.

2. Regarding the similar comment, they do not provide the details of the factors that affect housing prices in what they call examples. You say they are identical, but they dont show that. They say they did an apples to apples and found that ot wasnt 50 percent less, but 23 percent less in those cases. I again pointed out that without knowing g what communities these are, we cannot know what other factors are affecting this.

You're right, they don't give the full report of their findings in a CNN article about their findings. For that you'd have to click the link in the article that goes to the Brookings website, where you can find the PDF of their report.

4. That we know racism happened in the past does nor mean it is currently ongoing. That remains to be shown. Just comparing black communities to white communities is not an honest way to do this unless you take all factors into consideration.

Well one, fucking duh it's currently ongoing, and two, the study isn't seeking to prove that racism is still currently ongoing, it isn't seeking to study just what effect the racism has been.

Finally, I'm gonna ask that you please drop the condescending tone and the sarcasm. It just makes an honest discussion frustrating.

You don't know frustration until you've had to explain to an ostensibly literate adult that the answers to all their questions are in the article they claim to be responding to, if they would just fucking read what it actually says.

And really, there is no honest discussion here. There can be no worthwhile discussion with someone who thinks that effects of centuries of American history just stopped at some point and went away.

If that's your opinion I wont even bother responding.

[Thuzbekistan]

yes, it's racist. You've got deliberate sabotage, redlining, generational poverty and all that crap. The taxes are all kinds of fucked and benefit the wealthy too, so its not like poorer whites can look at it and go;
"Well hot dayum, I can live there and save a couple of grand a year and all I gots to do is not be a massive racist?" and diversify the neighborhood.

I literally live in one of these neighborhoods.