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Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
#jesusisthereasonfortheseason

Jesus, and presents, and children's choir concerts.


And co-opting pagan rituals in order to forcibly convert them to Christianity. Same as Easter.
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Federally United Germany
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Postby Federally United Germany » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Why change his race/gender? It literally doesn't matter and it makes no sense. Why make "progress" where it is not needed? The only explanation i have is that they are vying for attention.
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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:45 pm

To answer the question posed by the title, no.

But does it really matter?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Federally United Germany wrote:Why change his race/gender? It literally doesn't matter and it makes no sense. Why make "progress" where it is not needed? The only explanation i have is that they are vying for attention.


If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:48 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Federally United Germany wrote:Why change his race/gender? It literally doesn't matter and it makes no sense. Why make "progress" where it is not needed? The only explanation i have is that they are vying for attention.


If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?

I mean to be fair it is kinda pointless. I don´t really care as said before it is not a big deal but is a odd change for someone to make.
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Federally United Germany
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Postby Federally United Germany » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:48 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Federally United Germany wrote:Why change his race/gender? It literally doesn't matter and it makes no sense. Why make "progress" where it is not needed? The only explanation i have is that they are vying for attention.


If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?



Because it's an iconic figure. I see loads of backlash when someone makes a black character white or a gay character straight or whatever. So why should people on the right/more conservative people not be allowed to have the same reaction when their beloved characters are defiled?
Last edited by Federally United Germany on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Federally United Germany wrote:Why change his race/gender? It literally doesn't matter and it makes no sense. Why make "progress" where it is not needed? The only explanation i have is that they are vying for attention.


If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?

Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.
Last edited by Geneviev on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:55 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?

Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.


Appealing to tradition is one of the big no-no fallacies.
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Luziyca
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Postby Luziyca » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.


Appealing to tradition is one of the big no-no fallacies.

It is a no-no fallacy, doesn't stop people from doing it.
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Latin Islands
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Postby Latin Islands » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
If it doesn't matter, why make such a big fuss when someone does it different?

Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.


Exactly. It feels needlessly different. I'm not going to let a different depiction ruin my Christmas celebrations.
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Victorious Decepticons
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Postby Victorious Decepticons » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Santa must be old. To have him be young implies the death of the former, old, Santa - and that's not a jolly idea.

He can be whatever ethnicity someone wants. His job is to give me (and others) things for free. White is the default, but I don't get picky about the color of whoever's doing that. *Holds open an empty sack for him to fill*

He absolutely MUST be fat! A thin person is so stingy he doesn't give himself plenty - how can he be expected to be generous to others? The very idea of a thin Santa makes me say hmph. Thinness is for the Grinch.
Last edited by Victorious Decepticons on Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gran Virginia
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Postby Gran Virginia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:58 pm

Santa Claus/Father Christmas is an established character, and is linked to Saint Nicholas to the extent that Saint Nick is literally a less commonly used name for Santa Claus. The character is a fat, jolly man with a big white beard, big red nose, and yes, he's white. Trying to change that is stupid, the character already exists in the culture. People are free to create new Christmas-associated characters, but they do so at the price of opening themselves to well deserved criticism of social engineering.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:01 pm

Not going to lie, I feel like stopping Christmas this year. I can't enjoy my December with all this obnoxious merrymaking going on. :p
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ungvarnfjall
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Postby Ungvarnfjall » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:04 pm

For me, I have a winter celebration that lasts from the 20th of OCTOBER to JAN. 1ST. Why must you care so much about one guy, for one day, in one suit? It's not such a big deal, just get over it. Throw a rock through the air and call it santa if you must, just chill out, and for the love of the Gods, have a happy yule.
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United Capitalist Federations
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Postby United Capitalist Federations » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:04 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.


Appealing to tradition is one of the big no-no fallacies.



I have no idea what a "no-no fallacy" is but if it is what i believe you are referring to many of those are biased. Tradition is a cemented and permanent thing in society and although it may change the concept of tradition is permanent and an immobile part of human society. Saying that traditions should be respected because they are traditions is, not gonna lie, a pretty weak argument.

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Imperator Seven
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Postby Imperator Seven » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:04 pm

Why should anyone care what his skin color is? or his weight? or that he's old? you can believe what you want about him, and whatever you believe is true, to you.

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Little Tin Hat
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Postby Little Tin Hat » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:05 pm

Not necessarily



you've got to make some room for all those mince pies

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Imperator Seven
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Postby Imperator Seven » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Little Tin Hat wrote:Not necessarily



you've got to make some room for all those mince pies


Damn. you got me there.

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Cascadian Vinland
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Postby Cascadian Vinland » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:07 pm

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

New Zealand sounds like a stupid place.

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:08 pm

Cascadian Vinland wrote:
Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

New Zealand sounds like a stupid place.


For what reason?
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:10 pm

Latin Islands wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Tradition. Doing things like Christmas differently feels wrong. It doesn't mean that it actually is wrong, but it does feel that way.


Exactly. It feels needlessly different. I'm not going to let a different depiction ruin my Christmas celebrations.

It doesn't matter as long as Christmas doesn't change too much.
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Hrythingia
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Postby Hrythingia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:10 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Cascadian Vinland wrote:New Zealand sounds like a stupid place.


For what reason?

Well they have that prize hag Jacinda whatshername for a start.
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Sahansahiye Iran
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:13 pm

It really doesn't matter.
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Hrythingia
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Postby Hrythingia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Aren't you a Moslem though anyway?
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Sahansahiye Iran
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:15 pm

Hrythingia wrote:
Sahansahiye Iran wrote:It really doesn't matter.

Aren't you a Moslem though anyway?

God no lel

Edit: and even if I were, why would it matter? Plenty of Muslims celebrate Christmas. Including my own family.
Last edited by Sahansahiye Iran on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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