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Would you kill Hitler?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would you kill Hitler after considering all the potential ramifications?

Yes
22
23%
No
73
77%
 
Total votes : 95

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Riakou
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Would you kill Hitler?

Postby Riakou » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:21 am

You suddenly find yourself suddenly gaining access to a time machine, what’s the first thing you’d do? If you said “kill Adolf Hitler”, then congratulations; you're a walking trope.

The topic I'm here to discuss today is would you given the opportunity to travel back in time, to a point of your choosing within Adolf Hitlers life and kill him?
This is more of a philosophical question looking at the effects and importance of history, chaos theory, accountability, probability and a few other themes, I eagerly await to hear others thoughts on this philosophical topic.

I'll start by going over a few of the big questions.
Naturally there's far more than I'm able to cover here, this is a springboard for deeper (I hope) discussion.


The act itself
Could you kill another human, even one linked directly with great suffering?
We as humans generally for the most part, I would say are rational beings with an aversion to homicide, but even so if you felt capable one would have to decide the point in which to commit this act, when he's a younger individual who had not yet done anything, or as an older adult where plans had already been put into motion?
Can you punish a child for doing something you know it will eventually do but hasn't done yet?
Is it even worth committing the act once the plans are in motion, what would that really change? It could even potentially be worse.

Replaceability
Paying attention to his younger environment could give you more reason to be unsure whether killing him is a sure-fire way to eliminate the potential harms of an adult Hitler. Is there any reason to think that his environment as he grew up was unique? That his immediate family embodied parenting that was uniquely genocide-friendly?

If he had not survived to adulthood, do you think it impossible, or even unlikely, that someone else raised in the same cultural environment could not have taken the same political path, might have advocated for and instituted similar policies considering the political climate at the time? Hitler did not have to twist nearly as many arms in implementing his will as one might have hoped after all.

Chaos Theory
The butterfly effect is possibly the biggest thing to consider for me, very small changes in a very complex system can have very big effects especially when multiplied over time.
Hitler was not an insignificant person, so if you did succeed, given the impact he had on so many lives, you’d drastically alter the future/present, with unforeseen consequences.

Say whoever replaced him was ineffectual, the war ended with reduced loss of life and destruction. In this timeline, maybe no German rocket scientists ended up in the US. The space programme loses some of its best minds, and happens more slowly (or not at all?) The space race resulted in a breath-taking amount of scientific advancement all that would be lost.

But technology isn't just one thing, in saving potentially millions of lives you have also almost irrefutably 'killed' many more by way of them never being born, couples separated, families never to be, assuming you don't even erase yourself from existence too.
Would you consider it as killing if the people had never been born in the new timeline?
What makes the lives of one group more valuable than the other in your choice?
Do you think it's wise to attempt to alter such significant historical events with such devastating ramifications, or is history simply something better taken and learned from?

Be sure to vote in the poll and tell us what you think.
I hope this to be an interesting topic.
and remember be polite to all. :)

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:24 am

Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:34 am

I'm not sure that killing Hitler would have changed much. The seeds of a Hitler-type figure to emerge in Germany were already sown. It is highly probable that someone else would have filled those boots; history in this case might have "corrected" the change for the most part.

I don't think I would go back and kill him, because there are far too many unknowns on the table, which could result in the altered history being far far worse than the one we know.

I know Hitler was a colossal asshole, but killing him might make me into an even bigger asshole, depending on what kind of new history I unleash.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:41 am

I would travel back in time to kill baby Hitler.

And then subsequently eat him.
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Auristania
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Postby Auristania » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:48 am

Kill Hitler AND Himmler, Goebbels, Goering etc. Return to 2018 buy a history book list the new Nazi leaders, go kill them.
Rinse wash repeat.
Last edited by Auristania on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:53 am

It's my understanding that Hitler was about to kill himself after the Beer Hall Putsch, but someone convinced him not to. If I was going to go back in time to kill Hitler, I'd find that person and delay them or distract them or somehow prevent them from being in the right place at the right time so that Hitler would kill himself.

Time travel mission 2: "Accidentally" bump into Gavrilo Princip to stop him from crossing paths with Franz Ferdinand.
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Riakou
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Postby Riakou » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:35 am

Ifreann wrote:It's my understanding that Hitler was about to kill himself after the Beer Hall Putsch, but someone convinced him not to. If I was going to go back in time to kill Hitler, I'd find that person and delay them or distract them or somehow prevent them from being in the right place at the right time so that Hitler would kill himself.

Time travel mission 2: "Accidentally" bump into Gavrilo Princip to stop him from crossing paths with Franz Ferdinand.


Yes, the one which you're referring to is Helene Hanfstaengl, ironically an American immigrant to Germany.

So you believe that if you try to limit your involvement as much as possible so its not by your hand per se, then effect would be less damaging overall?

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:39 am

Well killing Hitler is not guaranteed to stop the Holocaust and it is likely someone maybe worse will take his place. So I would say no. While I despise Hitler with every fiber of my being killing him has to many unknowns to be a good idea.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:53 am

Kill hitler? I think we should try, convict and execute litterbugs. Yeah sure, one dead Hitler coming up.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:55 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Kill hitler? I think we should try, convict and execute litterbugs. Yeah sure, one dead Hitler coming up.

One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.
Hello I am Andsed welcome to my sig.


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Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
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Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:55 am

Without knowing the exact outcome, I don’t think I could be convinced to change history.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:09 am

Andsed wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Kill hitler? I think we should try, convict and execute litterbugs. Yeah sure, one dead Hitler coming up.

One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.

Sometimes the unknown devil is the better choice.
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Postby Hrythingia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:11 am

Ifreann wrote:It's my understanding that Hitler was about to kill himself after the Beer Hall Putsch, but someone convinced him not to. If I was going to go back in time to kill Hitler, I'd find that person and delay them or distract them or somehow prevent them from being in the right place at the right time so that Hitler would kill himself.

Time travel mission 2: "Accidentally" bump into Gavrilo Princip to stop him from crossing paths with Franz Ferdinand.

That would not have stopped WWI tbh, armed conflict was well on the way and only a matter of time on the continent.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:13 am

Riakou wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's my understanding that Hitler was about to kill himself after the Beer Hall Putsch, but someone convinced him not to. If I was going to go back in time to kill Hitler, I'd find that person and delay them or distract them or somehow prevent them from being in the right place at the right time so that Hitler would kill himself.

Time travel mission 2: "Accidentally" bump into Gavrilo Princip to stop him from crossing paths with Franz Ferdinand.


Yes, the one which you're referring to is Helene Hanfstaengl, ironically an American immigrant to Germany.

So you believe that if you try to limit your involvement as much as possible so its not by your hand per se, then effect would be less damaging overall?

No, I think that these are convenient ways to prevent wars without having to personally kill anyone.


Andsed wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Kill hitler? I think we should try, convict and execute litterbugs. Yeah sure, one dead Hitler coming up.

One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.

This seems to presume it to be historically inevitable that the Nazis would take power in Germany and that whoever happened to be leading them would become the Fuhrer.


Alvecia wrote:Without knowing the exact outcome, I don’t think I could be convinced to change history.

Well if changing history doesn't work out you can always go back in time and stop yourself from changing history.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:14 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Andsed wrote:One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.

Sometimes the unknown devil is the better choice.

Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:16 am

Andsed wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Sometimes the unknown devil is the better choice.

Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?

Considering the outcome, I dont think you are going to get much worse.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:16 am

Ifreann wrote:
Riakou wrote:
Yes, the one which you're referring to is Helene Hanfstaengl, ironically an American immigrant to Germany.

So you believe that if you try to limit your involvement as much as possible so its not by your hand per se, then effect would be less damaging overall?

No, I think that these are convenient ways to prevent wars without having to personally kill anyone.


Andsed wrote:One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.

This seems to presume it to be historically inevitable that the Nazis would take power in Germany and that whoever happened to be leading them would become the Fuhrer.


Alvecia wrote:Without knowing the exact outcome, I don’t think I could be convinced to change history.

Well if changing history doesn't work out you can always go back in time and stop yourself from changing history.

Oh no, that’d get too recursive
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:16 am

Alvecia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No, I think that these are convenient ways to prevent wars without having to personally kill anyone.



This seems to presume it to be historically inevitable that the Nazis would take power in Germany and that whoever happened to be leading them would become the Fuhrer.



Well if changing history doesn't work out you can always go back in time and stop yourself from changing history.

Oh no, that’d get too recursive

Oh no, that’d get too recursive
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
Riakou wrote:
Yes, the one which you're referring to is Helene Hanfstaengl, ironically an American immigrant to Germany.

So you believe that if you try to limit your involvement as much as possible so its not by your hand per se, then effect would be less damaging overall?

No, I think that these are convenient ways to prevent wars without having to personally kill anyone.


Andsed wrote:One problem with killing Hitler. His ideas and view of purity and such were not unique he was just a really good politician. Killing him may just bring in someone worse than Hitler.

This seems to presume it to be historically inevitable that the Nazis would take power in Germany and that whoever happened to be leading them would become the Fuhrer.


Alvecia wrote:Without knowing the exact outcome, I don’t think I could be convinced to change history.

Well if changing history doesn't work out you can always go back in time and stop yourself from changing history.

Hitler was not very unique in his views the thing that made him different is that he was a good politician. It is likely killing him would just lead to something worse.
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Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
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Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:18 am

Hrythingia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's my understanding that Hitler was about to kill himself after the Beer Hall Putsch, but someone convinced him not to. If I was going to go back in time to kill Hitler, I'd find that person and delay them or distract them or somehow prevent them from being in the right place at the right time so that Hitler would kill himself.

Time travel mission 2: "Accidentally" bump into Gavrilo Princip to stop him from crossing paths with Franz Ferdinand.

That would not have stopped WWI tbh, armed conflict was well on the way and only a matter of time on the continent.

But it would have prevented our WWI from happening. If something else kicks off a continental war instead, I can check what set that in motion and prevent that too.


Andsed wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Sometimes the unknown devil is the better choice.

Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?

If you can time travel then there is no risk. Keep changing the variables of the past until you get the best, or least bad, present.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 am

Ifreann wrote:
Hrythingia wrote:That would not have stopped WWI tbh, armed conflict was well on the way and only a matter of time on the continent.

But it would have prevented our WWI from happening. If something else kicks off a continental war instead, I can check what set that in motion and prevent that too.


Andsed wrote:Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?

If you can time travel then there is no risk. Keep changing the variables of the past until you get the best, or least bad, present.

Have you watched any time travel movie or show?
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Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

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Hrythingia
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Postby Hrythingia » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 am

Ifreann wrote:
Hrythingia wrote:That would not have stopped WWI tbh, armed conflict was well on the way and only a matter of time on the continent.

But it would have prevented our WWI from happening. If something else kicks off a continental war instead, I can check what set that in motion and prevent that too.


Andsed wrote:Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?

If you can time travel then there is no risk. Keep changing the variables of the past until you get the best, or least bad, present.

Sometimes you have to let the can lid off and let the fizz out. Europe was going to explode into war by some means or other.
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Postby Valrifell » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:24 am

Hrythingia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:But it would have prevented our WWI from happening. If something else kicks off a continental war instead, I can check what set that in motion and prevent that too.



If you can time travel then there is no risk. Keep changing the variables of the past until you get the best, or least bad, present.

Sometimes you have to let the can lid off and let the fizz out. Europe was going to explode into war by some means or other.


It only looks inevitable through hindsight, it was definitely not the case in 1939. Hitler's idea to remilitarize the Rhineland, for instance, was controversial within Nazi leadership, iirc.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:25 am

Alvecia wrote:Without knowing the exact outcome, I don’t think I could be convinced to change history.
Yeah unless i know exactly what is going to happen as a result i dont think i would do it.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:26 am

Ifreann wrote:
Hrythingia wrote:That would not have stopped WWI tbh, armed conflict was well on the way and only a matter of time on the continent.

But it would have prevented our WWI from happening. If something else kicks off a continental war instead, I can check what set that in motion and prevent that too.


Andsed wrote:Yes it might work out better than reality but it also might end up much worse. Do you really want to take that risk?

If you can time travel then there is no risk. Keep changing the variables of the past until you get the best, or least bad, present.

Also you can’t just assume preventing WW1 or WW2 would lead to all good things. So many of the advancements in feilds such as medicine has saved thousands of not millions of lives and have improved so many others were made during as a result of the World Wars.
Last edited by Andsed on Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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