US Midterm Elections Megathread III: Hitting The Wall

[Thermodolia]

Yes I know that. I’m not a fan of districts in the first place.


PR doesn’t need districts so you wouldn’t have to worry about how to draw nonexistent districts


And? That’s a problem how?


What does that have to do with anything?

Birmingham and Selma are Majority African American.

Again I ask what does this have to do with anything?

Why shouldn’t they have someone from their community who represents them in state and federal government?

That’s what the senate is for. 5 senators per state elected by STV.

Same goes for Philadelphia or New York or Jefferson City. How is someone not from the community who instead resides in a another part of the state going to have a understanding of that issues important to them?

You’ll still have state and local governments dude

[Shrillland]

No it is not, it is the gas canister.

Shooting the President, particularly Donald Trump with his almost religious following, would cause a chain reaction that would lead to, you guessed it, mass violence and eventually civil war.

I doubt it. What are people going to do march into Chicago, Philadelphia, New York or Los Angeles and start mass violence against everyone there and the surrounding suburbs?

You would be surprised. Remember the riots that took place after MLK's assassination and the reprisals against those who refused to mourn Lincoln's death.

a completely gridlocked government unable to get anything done whatsoever?

Gridlocked? It wouldn't be like Northern Ireland where the parties that hate each other have to govern together, it would be coalitions of groups with, often, similar goals that are willing to compromise. God forbid we have a system where people have to work together for the good of the country. What's happening in Sweden is the exception, not the rule.

[Thermodolia]

I doubt it. What are people going to do march into Chicago, Philadelphia, New York or Los Angeles and start mass violence against everyone there and the surrounding suburbs?

You would be surprised. Remember the riots that took place after MLK's assassination and the reprisals against those who refused to mourn Lincoln's death.

Hell just look at what happened after Rodney King. Riots erupted all over the US. LA was a war zone for weeks.

a completely gridlocked government unable to get anything done whatsoever?

Gridlocked? It wouldn't be like Northern Ireland where the parties that hate each other have to govern together, it would be coalitions of groups with, often, similar goals that are willing to compromise. God forbid we have a system where people have to work together for the good of the country.

He’s just mad because such a system would cut the democrats down.

[Shrillland]

You would be surprised. Remember the riots that took place after MLK's assassination and the reprisals against those who refused to mourn Lincoln's death.

Hell just look at what happened after Rodney King. Riots erupted all over the US. LA was a war zone for weeks.

Gridlocked? It wouldn't be like Northern Ireland where the parties that hate each other have to govern together, it would be coalitions of groups with, often, similar goals that are willing to compromise. God forbid we have a system where people have to work together for the good of the country.

He’s just mad because such a system would cut the democrats down.

Not really. They'd still be a dominant party in the coalitions, even Germany has two dominant parties, though we would have three thanks to the right populists. They'd just have to cater more to the more social democratic elements in American politics.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

It is great that we all mostly agree on the reform of America's electoral system for the sake of the people...

However, it still has to be implemented, and I do not believe the corrupt crooks in the Capitol would ever concede such a thing.

[Thermodolia]

Hell just look at what happened after Rodney King. Riots erupted all over the US. LA was a war zone for weeks.


He’s just mad because such a system would cut the democrats down.

Not really. They'd still be a dominant party in the coalitions, even Germany has two dominant parties, though we would have three thanks to the right populists. They'd just have to cater more to the more social democratic elements in American politics.

Yes but Germany has an MMP voting system I’m talking about a PR system like the Netherlands. 16+ parties in a 500 member House of Representatives. Oh that would be a dream come true

[Cannot think of a name]

You would be surprised. Remember the riots that took place after MLK's assassination and the reprisals against those who refused to mourn Lincoln's death.

Hell just look at what happened after Rodney King. Riots erupted all over the US. LA was a war zone for weeks.

The existence of riots does not make the case for a civil war, and the comparison is faulty. The King riots were a direct reaction of a population to its immediate law enforcement and government after police officers in their community were filmed beating a black motorist and got off Scott free. This is not a portent to a civil war. Will Trump supporters jump off the rails if Trump is assassinated or removed from office? Certainly. They're off the rails now, driving cars into crowds and such. So yeah, they'll do a little more of that while they process their loss, but it's a wild leap to call that a 'civil war.' There will be no battle lines. At best those dillweeds in Nevada that took over a state park station might fancy themselves a Trump militia and raise a MAGA flag over something stupid, but that does not a civil war make any more than Waco was a civil war or Ruby Ridge was a civil war.

[Northern Davincia]

No it is not, it is the gas canister.

Shooting the President, particularly Donald Trump with his almost religious following, would cause a chain reaction that would lead to, you guessed it, mass violence and eventually civil war.

I doubt it. What are people going to do march into Chicago, Philadelphia, New York or Los Angeles and start mass violence against everyone there and the surrounding suburbs?

You sound as if people aren't capable of inflicting that.

[Cannot think of a name]

I doubt it. What are people going to do march into Chicago, Philadelphia, New York or Los Angeles and start mass violence against everyone there and the surrounding suburbs?

You sound as if people aren't capable of inflicting that.

They aren't.

[San Lumen]

Birmingham and Selma are Majority African American.

Again I ask what does this have to do with anything?

Why shouldn’t they have someone from their community who represents them in state and federal government?

That’s what the senate is for. 5 senators per state elected by STV.

Same goes for Philadelphia or New York or Jefferson City. How is someone not from the community who instead resides in a another part of the state going to have a understanding of that issues important to them?

You’ll still have state and local governments dude

Is quite simple really. Why shouldn’t someone from Albany or Jefferson City have someone who lived in the community represent then in the state legislature or congress and not have to wonder if the party will take up their issues and concerns?

And do senators have to be from certain areas?

Would state governments not be by proportional representation?

[Shrillland]

Again I ask what does this have to do with anything?


That’s what the senate is for. 5 senators per state elected by STV.


You’ll still have state and local governments dude

And do senators have to be from certain areas?

Would state governments not be by proportional representation?

That would depend on the state, really. We're just providing a solution for the federal government. PR and MMP wouldn't work in, say, non-partisan Nebraska where parties don't technically exist in the Assembly.

And no, Senators would still be individually selected, just by STV rather than FPTP. Australia does it and it works well enough.

[San Lumen]

You sound as if people aren't capable of inflicting that.

They aren't.

It’s not like the police would stand idely by or the governor wouldn’t call in the national guard

[Shrillland]

They aren't.

It’s not like the police would stand ideally by or the governor wouldn’t call in the national guard

Don't ever assume that cops or soldiers will remain as they are should things seem like they will collapse. Rome didn't fall until it did.

[San Lumen]

It’s not like the police would stand ideally by or the governor wouldn’t call in the national guard

Don't ever assume that cops or soldiers will remain as they are should things seem like they will collapse. Rome didn't fall until it did.

True but we are far from that point. There isn’t going to be a march by farmers into Philadelphia or Chicago that start acts of mass violence

[Thuzbekistan]

You sound as if people aren't capable of inflicting that.

They aren't.

La riots

[Northern Davincia]

You sound as if people aren't capable of inflicting that.

They aren't.

Why not?

Again I ask what does this have to do with anything?


That’s what the senate is for. 5 senators per state elected by STV.


You’ll still have state and local governments dude

Is quite simple really. Why shouldn’t someone from Albany or Jefferson City have someone who lived in the community represent then in the state legislature or congress and not have to wonder if the party will take up their issues and concerns?

And do senators have to be from certain areas?

Would state governments not be by proportional representation?

Proportional representation doesn't magically eliminate city governments or the possibility of cities having representatives.
Granted, it would be amusing to watch cities being ignored like rural areas have been for decades.

[Cannot think of a name]

They aren't.

La riots

Hell just look at what happened after Rodney King. Riots erupted all over the US. LA was a war zone for weeks.

The existence of riots does not make the case for a civil war, and the comparison is faulty. The King riots were a direct reaction of a population to its immediate law enforcement and government after police officers in their community were filmed beating a black motorist and got off Scott free. This is not a portent to a civil war. Will Trump supporters jump off the rails if Trump is assassinated or removed from office? Certainly. They're off the rails now, driving cars into crowds and such. So yeah, they'll do a little more of that while they process their loss, but it's a wild leap to call that a 'civil war.' There will be no battle lines. At best those dillweeds in Nevada that took over a state park station might fancy themselves a Trump militia and raise a MAGA flag over something stupid, but that does not a civil war make any more than Waco was a civil war or Ruby Ridge was a civil war.

[Cannot think of a name]

They aren't.

Why not?

They lack sufficient numbers, motivation, logistics, cause, resources, goals, etc. Another riot in Charlotsville? Sure. Marching on a 'liberal' city? Hahahahaahaaaa...no. Most Trump supporters will be mad for a bit, shitpost on the internet some more, make dumb proclamations during holiday meals, and then we'll fucking continue on. Maybe there's something in this world strong enough to unite enough people to siege a city from the outside and not just riot for a few days. Trump is not that person.

[Northern Davincia]

Why not?

They lack sufficient numbers, motivation, logistics, cause, resources, goals, etc. Another riot in Charlotsville? Sure. Marching on a 'liberal' city? Hahahahaahaaaa...no. Most Trump supporters will be mad for a bit, shitpost on the internet some more, make dumb proclamations during holiday meals, and then we'll fucking continue on. Maybe there's something in this world strong enough to unite enough people to siege a city from the outside and not just riot for a few days. Trump is not that person.

The Yellow Vests provide a good example for discontent Americans to follow when it comes to bringing a city to heel.

[Shrillland]

They lack sufficient numbers, motivation, logistics, cause, resources, goals, etc. Another riot in Charlotsville? Sure. Marching on a 'liberal' city? Hahahahaahaaaa...no. Most Trump supporters will be mad for a bit, shitpost on the internet some more, make dumb proclamations during holiday meals, and then we'll fucking continue on. Maybe there's something in this world strong enough to unite enough people to siege a city from the outside and not just riot for a few days. Trump is not that person.

The Yellow Vests provide a good example for discontent Americans to follow when it comes to bringing a city to heel.

They would if more Americans actually paid attention to world events. But we don't.

[San Lumen]

They aren't.

Why not?

Is quite simple really. Why shouldn’t someone from Albany or Jefferson City have someone who lived in the community represent then in the state legislature or congress and not have to wonder if the party will take up their issues and concerns?

And do senators have to be from certain areas?

Would state governments not be by proportional representation?

Proportional representation doesn't magically eliminate city governments or the possibility of cities having representatives.
Granted, it would be amusing to watch cities being ignored like rural areas have been for decades.

I never said it did but there is no guarantee someone from your community would be elected to the state legislature or Congress. What does someone from Hamilton County know about issues facing the Bronx?

And for the zillionth time you are not ignored.

[Shrillland]

Why not?

Proportional representation doesn't magically eliminate city governments or the possibility of cities having representatives.
Granted, it would be amusing to watch cities being ignored like rural areas have been for decades.

I never said it did but there is no guarantee someone from your community would be elected to the state legislature or Congress. What does someone from Hamilton County know about issues facing the Bronx?

And for the zillionth time you are not ignored.

There would in an MMP sysytem. By doubling the size of the House, my state would have the 18 district seats and 18 list seats, so we'd still have a local representative for our local issues while the list member would be more focused on the state and the nation as a whole.

[San Lumen]

I never said it did but there is no guarantee someone from your community would be elected to the state legislature or Congress. What does someone from Hamilton County know about issues facing the Bronx?

And for the zillionth time you are not ignored.

There would in an MMP sysytem. By doubling the size of the House, my state would have the 18 district seats and 18 list seats, so we'd still have a local representative for our local issues while the list member would be more focused on the state and the nation as a whole.

Well I would not have an issue with MMP then.

[Cannot think of a name]

They lack sufficient numbers, motivation, logistics, cause, resources, goals, etc. Another riot in Charlotsville? Sure. Marching on a 'liberal' city? Hahahahaahaaaa...no. Most Trump supporters will be mad for a bit, shitpost on the internet some more, make dumb proclamations during holiday meals, and then we'll fucking continue on. Maybe there's something in this world strong enough to unite enough people to siege a city from the outside and not just riot for a few days. Trump is not that person.

The Yellow Vests provide a good example for discontent Americans to follow when it comes to bringing a city to heel.

Enraged Trump supporters do not have their numbers, especially to haul out of their little conclaves and take on Los Angeles or San Francisco. Hell...it'd be fucking hilarious to watch them 'march' on San Francisco. As far as protesters go, it'd be like watching the Wakashaw Beavers community baseball team take on the 1939 Yankees. San Francisco is the major leagues of protest, you guys don't want to start your career there.

This is never going to happen. Stop. It's embarrassing. We know what enraged Trump supporters look like. They already happened. They put on tricorner hats and hang tea bags on shit and when they get really worked up they drive a Dodge Challenger into a crowd of people. You're not getting a civil war.

[Northern Davincia]

Why not?

Proportional representation doesn't magically eliminate city governments or the possibility of cities having representatives.
Granted, it would be amusing to watch cities being ignored like rural areas have been for decades.

I never said it did but there is no guarantee someone from your community would be elected to the state legislature or Congress. What does someone from Hamilton County know about issues facing the Bronx?

And for the zillionth time you are not ignored.

Care to explain why Cuomo never talked about upstate NY during the gubernatorial debates? Care to explain why upstate population loss is worse now than ever before?
The chances of someone from the Bronx not getting elected are slim to none, and once again, Europeans seem to have this figured out.