[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[MORBY SHIPPERS]

The poorest countries have the highest fertility rates because they don't have access to contraceptives, comprehensive sex education, or protections in regards to violence against women.

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

[Galloism]

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

It’s actually one of the reasons China has such a lopsided gender ratio - children were the retirement plan, and socially boys are required to care for their aging parents while girls are not.

So with a one child policy, a girl meant poverty and death. A boy meant security in retirement.

It’s fucked up, but that’s the way it is.

[Katganistan]

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

Especially in agrarian communities or in societies where there is not a lot of wherewithal to pay for care in one's twilight years, though, it's common.

[Salandriagado]

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

In a country where there is not crushing poverty or there are safety nets, hire someone, get a housemate, or enroll in an assisted living/retirement community. And if you cannot care for yourself at all, a nursing facility.

If one's reason for having kids is so they take care of you and nothing more, one's relationship with them may be such that they don't give a rat's ass about what happens to their elder anyhow.

I think you missed the context, there: we're specifically talking about why birth rates are higher in countries with crushing poverty.

[That one gay guy]

As a gay man, I don't really have to deal with abortion. I don't have to deal with pregnancy either.

I do understand that people should be able to choose whether to have kids or not. It's just I don't really have to deal with this.

[Page]

As a gay man, I don't really have to deal with abortion. I don't have to deal with pregnancy either.

I do understand that people should be able to choose whether to have kids or not. It's just I don't really have to deal with this.

We need to fight for causes that we don't have a personal stake in. When we're all apathetic to everything but our own individual issues, we are divided and conquered.

[Luminesa]

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

I mean it’s even more selfish to say that they exist to replace the current generation of workers, but they do, and that’s why Japan is facing a massive issue with an aging workforce. They have no young people to replace them when they retire.

[Thepeopl]

As a gay man, I don't really have to deal with abortion. I don't have to deal with pregnancy either.

I do understand that people should be able to choose whether to have kids or not. It's just I don't really have to deal with this.

You don't want children? I know plenty gay people who do have kids.

[Luminesa]

As a gay man, I don't really have to deal with abortion. I don't have to deal with pregnancy either.

I do understand that people should be able to choose whether to have kids or not. It's just I don't really have to deal with this.

...Okay?

[Kernen]

As a gay man, I don't really have to deal with abortion. I don't have to deal with pregnancy either.

I do understand that people should be able to choose whether to have kids or not. It's just I don't really have to deal with this.

We need to fight for causes that we don't have a personal stake in. When we're all apathetic to everything but our own individual issues, we are divided and conquered.

There's no reason to put effort into a cause you've no stake in. Its a waste of energy.

[Napkizemlja]

Ultimately my opinion on an abortion is that no one should be forced to have an abortion, and no one should be forced to carry a child. Is that unfair?

Yes.

[Godular]

Ultimately my opinion on an abortion is that no one should be forced to have an abortion, and no one should be forced to carry a child. Is that unfair?

Yes.

Something something totally fair for a fetus to usurp control of another person's body...

(edited to fix one word that kinda sporked the message entirely)

[New haven america]

That, and a necessity of having children, due to there being no other options available for old-age care.

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

Try telling most Asian countries that.

[New haven america]

That's a selfish reason to have children. They do not exist just to take care of you.

It’s actually one of the reasons China has such a lopsided gender ratio - children were the retirement plan, and socially boys are required to care for their aging parents while girls are not.

So with a one child policy, a girl meant poverty and death. A boy meant security in retirement.

It’s fucked up, but that’s the way it is.

There's also a trend of companies in China asking questions like "Your wife and mother are both on their deathbed and you can only save one, which do you choose?", and if you choose the wrong answer they automatically throw away your application.

If you're a good Chinese worker then you pick your mom, if you wanna be jobless then you pick your wife.

[Napkizemlja]

Yes.

Something something totally fair for a fetus to usurp control of another person's body...

(edited to fix one word that kinda sporked the message entirely)

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

[Crysuko]

Something something totally fair for a fetus to usurp control of another person's body...

(edited to fix one word that kinda sporked the message entirely)

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

I cannot for the life of me consider a cluster of stem cells a human life

[Napkizemlja]

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

I cannot for the life of me consider a cluster of stem cells a human life

That's nice.

[Godular]

Something something totally fair for a fetus to usurp control of another person's body...

(edited to fix one word that kinda sporked the message entirely)

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

And what very specific circumstance is that? For I see a great many circumstances in which it is perfectly justifiable to take a human life in order to protect one's own bodily integrity, and the situation produced by an unwanted pregnancy does indeed fall under... damn near all of them.

[Wallenburg]

I mean, if that includes the option to abort the pregnancy, cool.

If a woman has a miscarriage, stillborn or if the pregnancy is due to rape or incest, then a woman has the right to choose to terminate. Or if it has nothing to do, with the causes I mentioned and she's simply not ready or doesn't want the child, then she has the right to terminate.

I'm simply saying; that if a women were kind of like Pennsatucky from Orange Is The New Black; a character whose had 5 abortions, then I feel that's a bit ridiculous.

Abortion is a very serious thing and shouldn't be used as a form of birth control by some indiviuals.

I mean, you shouldn't use abortion as a substitute to contraception, that's a rather serious and unnecessary health risk, but there's nothing morally wrong about it.

[Luminesa]

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

I cannot for the life of me consider a cluster of stem cells a human life

Uhhhh laws of biogenesis says that’s a human if it comes from a human.

[Neanderthaland]

I cannot for the life of me consider a cluster of stem cells a human life

Uhhhh laws of biogenesis says that’s a human if it comes from a human.

I don't think that they're suggesting that it's actually a cat, or something. I think they're suggesting that this is not a person.

Though they could have phrased it better.

[Godular]

I cannot for the life of me consider a cluster of stem cells a human life

Uhhhh laws of biogenesis says that’s a human if it comes from a human.

Cancer cells are people too, I guess.

Though I do agree with the caveman, the 'human life' comment could have been better stated.

[Luminesa]

Uhhhh laws of biogenesis says that’s a human if it comes from a human.

I don't think that they're suggesting that it's actually a cat, or something. I think they're suggesting that this is not a person.

Though they could have phrased it better.

Well, ‘person’ means a different argument than ‘human’.

[Neanderthaland]

I don't think that they're suggesting that it's actually a cat, or something. I think they're suggesting that this is not a person.

Though they could have phrased it better.

Well, ‘person’ means a different argument than ‘human’.

Yes, but 'a human life,' which is what they said, is bit more synonymous.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Yeah I think it's fair for a new human life to not be taken outside of one very specific circumstance.

And what very specific circumstance is that? For I see a great many circumstances in which it is perfectly justifiable to take a human life in order to protect one's own bodily integrity, and the situation produced by an unwanted pregnancy does indeed fall under... damn near all of them.

When it comes to abortion, any reason that a pregnant person has to terminate is valid. I cannot think of a single reason someone could come up with that would be a bad reason to terminate.