[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Hrythingia]

Abortion is only permissible if the mother's life can be expected to be lost with the delivery. Anything else is murder.

Only the delivery, huh?

Ectopic pregnancies be damned! she’ll just have to wait!

I'll concede that, any pregnancy that might end a mother's life -that is permissible.

[The New California Republic]

Abortion is only permissible if the mother's life can be expected to be lost with the delivery. Anything else is murder.

Except that it isn't murder. And what if the fetus is going to die? Should she be forced to carry a doomed fetus to term, as in the tragic case of Savita Halappanavar, which ultimately resulted in her death?

[Ghost Land]

So because you do not want the baby, it is okay to kill it at any given time, yes?

Clearly not. Go read the rest of the thread rather than make the same lame arguments others have made. Go, before you make some crack about drowning a kid after birth (which by the way is murder: infanticide.)

What exactly is the moral difference between infanticide and an abortion (at least very late term)? Does it solely come down to whether the fetus/baby has actually been born, and that being the one factor that magically determines whether it's acceptable or unacceptable to kill said fetus/baby?

Let's also, just for the record, count me in with the bunch of people who find abortion acceptable only in cases of endangerment to mother and/or child.

By the way, NSG really is a cesspool, isn't it?

[Indo-Malaysia]

So because you do not want the baby, it is okay to kill it at any given time, yes?

Someone hasn't been keeping up with the thread...

(91 pages was too much so I though I'd start fresh)

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Or you could maybe develop some empathy on the matter. I suggest making room in your self-righteous indignation.

A woman’s body being violated is no laughing matter. It is not for the woman, and it should not be for you.

It's not my fault instead of wording it as something like '??? can abort because of ??? reasons', you written it like '??? can get rid of the baby out of self-defence'. It just sounds really exaggerated when you read it. It implies the baby is going out of its way to attack its host, which shouldnt be the case.
The women's body wasn't even mentioned. The whole post was about the way it was worded

Stop trying to pick a fight.

Welcome to NS General. If you can’t take the heat, forum 7 is just a couple spots down.

Here though, expect to get your ignorance and inanery called upon the carpet.

If you intend to stick around, do be so kind as to pay attention to what else I was saying to you rather than acting like some kind of fluffy victim-bunny.

[Katganistan]

Oh, I long for the day when science will make it possible for *men* to be able to carry a pregnancy to term. Because the day a fetus can be removed from a woman who doesn't want it, and implanted into the man who insists he has a right to his child being born -- I forsee this entire argument ending.

When it's no longer a matter of, "The woman deciding what life is worth!" and more, "Well, *I* don't want it either!" that's when this idiocy will end.

Why does it need to be a man?

If HE wants the right to HIS child, why shouldn't it be the man?

Unless, of course, this is all hypocrisy about control over women's sovereignty?

[Genivaria]

Who said that? I didn't.

Then why did you never mention it?

Also a list of health problem caused by pregnancy: Weight gain, mood swings, hormonal issues, nausea, soreness and swelling in the joints and breasts, and an overall decreased quality of life. After pregnancy you have: Lack of bladder control, postpartum depression, blood pressure problems, gestational diabetes, bone density issues, cancer, etc...

And I should also point out that all these health issues would have a SEVERE impact on the woman's ability to hold a job, and paid maternal leave isn't a thing in alot of places.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Only the delivery, huh?

Ectopic pregnancies be damned! she’ll just have to wait!

I'll concede that, any pregnancy that might end a mother's life -that is permissible.

Which is all of them.

[Napkiraly]

And what differentiates a more developed baby than a less developed baby? Why should one deserve no protection, and the other is granted such?

"Born"
"Not Born"

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong.... Can you tell which thing is not like the others by the time I finish my song?

So should a mother be allowed to terminate a pregnancy via abortion even if the fetus is fully developed and it's only a day away from the expected due date?

[Katganistan]

Why does it need to be a man?

Because the stakes would be very different when they have to put their money where their mouth is.

You and I know the vast majority would nope the fuck outta there.

I mean the question "why does it need to be a man?" pretty much made my point.

[Genivaria]

Clearly not. Go read the rest of the thread rather than make the same lame arguments others have made. Go, before you make some crack about drowning a kid after birth (which by the way is murder: infanticide.)

What exactly is the moral difference between infanticide and an abortion (at least very late term)? Does it solely come down to whether the fetus/baby has actually been born, and that being the one factor that magically determines whether it's acceptable or unacceptable to kill said fetus/baby?

Let's also, just for the record, count me in with the bunch of people who find abortion acceptable only in cases of endangerment to mother and/or child.

By the way, NSG really is a cesspool, isn't it?

What exactly is the moral difference between infanticide and an abortion (at least very late term)?

Considering that noone is in support of late term abortions this seems an odd position to tackle.

[The South Falls]

"Born"
"Not Born"

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong.... Can you tell which thing is not like the others by the time I finish my song?

So should a mother be allowed to terminate a pregnancy via abortion even if the fetus is fully developed and it's only a day away from the expected due date?

By principle, yes. Yes. It's not born. And anyway, no one would do that. Go through all of that, then abort it.

[Hrythingia]

Abortion is only permissible if the mother's life can be expected to be lost with the delivery. Anything else is murder.

Except that it isn't murder. And what if the fetus is going to die? Should she be forced to carry a doomed fetus to term, as in the tragic case of Savita Halappanavar, which ultimately resulted in her death?

It is murder. You are killing a child. Scientists and Science agree that it is 'life'. Depriving someone of their life just 'cos' is murder. With Savita, her life was credibly threatened -she has the right to self defence.

I'll concede that, any pregnancy that might end a mother's life -that is permissible.

Which is all of them.

No, most pregnancies are handled with routine and pose little credible threat to the mother's life.

[Jebslund]

Someone hasn't been keeping up with the thread...

(91 pages was too much so I though I'd start fresh)

(I'm too lazy to follow the debate, so I'll pretend it didn't exist until I started talking)

If you're going to insist on talking out of your ass, don't be surprised when all you get for your troubles is a bunch of shit.

[Telconi]

Because the stakes would be very different when they have to put their money where their mouth is.

You and I know the vast majority would nope the fuck outta there.

I mean the question "why does it need to be a man?" pretty much made my point.

Not unless you're trying to prove sexism...

[The New California Republic]

What exactly is the moral difference between infanticide and an abortion (at least very late term)?

There are extremely strict restrictions on late-term abortions. The main moral difference is that infanticide involves a person, while abortion does not.

Does it solely come down to whether the fetus/baby has actually been born, and that being the one factor that magically determines whether it's acceptable or unacceptable to kill said fetus/baby?

I didn't realise that personhood was magic. TIL...

[Katganistan]

So because I made a harmless joke on what I typically think of when I see the words 'self defence', I am a misogynist?

Funny story.

'Test tube babies' are a thing of that counts?

You mean babies that are conceived via in vitro fertilization?
That doesn't really settle the issue.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the idea that a woman who is already pregnant. In vitro fertilization is used EXCLUSIVELY by people who WANT to become pregnant, but for some reason, can't without medical intervention.

[Indo-Malaysia]

It's not my fault instead of wording it as something like '??? can abort because of ??? reasons', you written it like '??? can get rid of the baby out of self-defence'. It just sounds really exaggerated when you read it. It implies the baby is going out of its way to attack its host, which shouldnt be the case.
The women's body wasn't even mentioned. The whole post was about the way it was worded

Stop trying to pick a fight.

Welcome to NS General. If you can’t take the heat, forum 7 is just a couple spots down.

Here though, expect to get your ignorance and inanery called upon the carpet.

If you intend to stick around, do be so kind as to pay attention to what else I was saying to you rather than acting like some kind of fluffy victim-bunny.

Chill out

I read every bit of what you said and I'm still confused about how you got triggered by what one would usually associate 'self-defence' with.

[Telconi]

I'll concede that, any pregnancy that might end a mother's life -that is permissible.

Which is all of them.

All pregnancies pose an eminent threat to the mother's life?

[Napkiraly]

Why does it need to be a man?

Because the stakes would be very different when they have to put their money where their mouth is.

Would gladly do it.

[Geneviev]

What exactly is the moral difference between infanticide and an abortion (at least very late term)?

There are extremely strict restrictions on late-term abortions. The main moral difference is that infanticide involves a person, while abortion does not.

Does it solely come down to whether the fetus/baby has actually been born, and that being the one factor that magically determines whether it's acceptable or unacceptable to kill said fetus/baby?

I didn't realise that personhood was magic. TIL...

1. There's no real difference.
2. Disney was right the whole time.

[Napkiraly]

So should a mother be allowed to terminate a pregnancy via abortion even if the fetus is fully developed and it's only a day away from the expected due date?

By principle, yes.

Translation: I support the killing of babies.

[The South Falls]

Which is all of them.

All pregnancies pose an eminent threat to the mother's life?

Small, but yes. And anyway, the mother has right over her body and to make those choices.

[The New California Republic]

Except that it isn't murder. And what if the fetus is going to die? Should she be forced to carry a doomed fetus to term, as in the tragic case of Savita Halappanavar, which ultimately resulted in her death?

It is murder. You are killing a child.

Fetus =/= child. A child is a person. A fetus is not a person.

Scientists and Science agree that it is 'life'. Depriving someone of their life just 'cos' is murder.

"Life" alone is not enough to define something as murder.

[Internationalist Bastard]

By principle, yes.

Translation: I support the killing of babies.

Yes
Kill babies all day every day