[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Katganistan]

I mean they roll around so easily.... big wobbly heads also make them difficult to store on a shelf....

And, as they get older, they have a tendency to start crawling... they want to walk. Getting them to stay on the shelf could be tricky...

Not to mention that it'd also take some very sturdy shelves to store the teenagers that are still waiting for families who never arrive...

You get rid of the older models by having a Black Friday sale and making everyone think it's just the same as the newer ones.

[The Free Joy State]

And, as they get older, they have a tendency to start crawling... they want to walk. Getting them to stay on the shelf could be tricky...

Not to mention that it'd also take some very sturdy shelves to store the teenagers that are still waiting for families who never arrive...

You get rid of the older models by having a Black Friday sale and making everyone think it's just the same as the newer ones.

Now, the real question is: how do you convice a twelve-year-old who's been stuck in the foster-system since birth and may have behavioural issues, to wear a baby bonnet and coo on the So-Not-Amazon's Foster-Warehouse "Great Offers on 2006 Babies" Black Friday sale?

[Godular]

*Passes by a babies resale adsign*

*Notes topic of conversation*

Uh... maybe just a little tangential? Should I start thinking of the next poll?

[Nettunia]

I mean they roll around so easily.... big wobbly heads also make them difficult to store on a shelf....

And, as they get older, they have a tendency to start crawling... they want to walk. Getting them to stay on the shelf could be tricky...

Not to mention that it'd also take some very sturdy shelves to store all the older children and teenagers that are still waiting for families who never arrive...

Oh but teenagers would love being stacked onto each other!

[Dylar]

Man, this conversation brings up a whole new meaning for "BabiesRUs"

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

I'm personally of the opinion that if a mother tries to abort a child, it's because she didn't want the child, and thus she'd be more likely to mistreat them in life.

[Neutraligon]

I'm personally of the opinion that if a mother tries to abort a child, it's because she didn't want the child, and thus she'd be more likely to mistreat them in life.

I wonder if there is actually any evidence of this.

[Godular]

I'm personally of the opinion that if a mother tries to abort a child, it's because she didn't want the child, and thus she'd be more likely to mistreat them in life.

And what does this necessarily entail for answering the question posed here in the thread?

[Katganistan]

You get rid of the older models by having a Black Friday sale and making everyone think it's just the same as the newer ones.

Now, the real question is: how do you convice a twelve-year-old who's been stuck in the foster-system since birth and may have behavioural issues, to wear a baby bonnet and coo on the So-Not-Amazon's Foster-Warehouse "Great Offers on 2006 Babies" Black Friday sale?

Bribe him with an Xbox One.

[The South Falls]

You get rid of the older models by having a Black Friday sale and making everyone think it's just the same as the newer ones.

Now, the real question is: how do you convice a twelve-year-old who's been stuck in the foster-system since birth and may have behavioural issues, to wear a baby bonnet and coo on the So-Not-Amazon's Foster-Warehouse "Great Offers on 2006 Babies" Black Friday sale?

You give him hot cheetos. Where I'm from, we'll do anything for them goddamn hot cheetos.

And anyway, won't we have to make brands, depending on where conceived? Ikea babies, counter babies, bathroom babies, etc.

[Neutraligon]

Now, the real question is: how do you convice a twelve-year-old who's been stuck in the foster-system since birth and may have behavioural issues, to wear a baby bonnet and coo on the So-Not-Amazon's Foster-Warehouse "Great Offers on 2006 Babies" Black Friday sale?

You give him hot cheetos. Where I'm from, we'll do anything for them goddamn hot cheetos.

And anyway, won't we have to make brands, depending on where conceived? Ikea babies, counter babies, bathroom babies, etc.

Would the position also be part of the brand? Also...good hot chocolate, that is my bribe of choice.

[Katganistan]

Here is a study that discusses the impacts of unintended pregnancy on both parents and children.

Another discussing the impacts on women who wanted to abort but could not.

Legalizing abortion has led to a significant drop in crime.

Most adult women who have abortions do not have mental health problems as a result of them.

Children born of unintended pregnancies tend to have poorer developmental scores.

Sorry to infodump, but there seem to be reasons that abortion is sometimes better than carrying to term.

[The South Falls]

You give him hot cheetos. Where I'm from, we'll do anything for them goddamn hot cheetos.

And anyway, won't we have to make brands, depending on where conceived? Ikea babies, counter babies, bathroom babies, etc.

Would the position also be part of the brand? Also...good hot chocolate, that is my bribe of choice.

Yea. Like X and XL models of cars. Cowgirl Counter 2017 baby, fresh with genes for height, weight, and smarts. Going for about 70,000, but we can knock off 5,000 MSRP.

[The Free Joy State]

Here is a study that discusses the impacts of unintended pregnancy on both parents and children.

Another discussing the impacts on women who wanted to abort but could not.

Legalizing abortion has led to a significant drop in crime.

Most adult women who have abortions do not have mental health problems as a result of them.

Children born of unintended pregnancies tend to have poorer developmental scores.

Sorry to infodump, but there seem to be reasons that abortion is sometimes better than carrying to term.

The crime one's especially interesting. I thought it would be that crime had dropped because women weren't being prosecuted, but the study actually looks at raw crime statistics, and crime statistics did take a downturn after 1992.

The TL;DR explanation for others is that, due to the ability to optimise the time of having a child, children are generally born into better environments. This leads to them having a better start in life, which makes them less likely to turn to crime.
_ _ _ _ _
And some corollary data about the impact of banning abortion, or making it hard for women to obtain:

In Brazil -- where it is all-but illegal -- up to one million pregnancies are illegally terminated every year (of which, 200,000 women will be hospitalised with complications**). Brazil has 140 million people.

The USA -- where abortion is legal in many circumstances -- has approximately 327 million people. In 2014, there were 652,639 abortions (a ratio of 186 abortions per 1,000 live births). This actually fell 2% (7% for the ratio) from 2013.

**Worldwide, between 4.7% and 13.2% of all maternal deaths are as a consequence of unsafe abortion.

[The V O I D]

“All of those articles and facts are obviously propaganda by the Intellectual Elite who want to lead poor, innocent {INSERT ORGANIZED RELIGION} women and girls astray. The life of the {child/baby/ other terms usually applied to a fetus after it is born to appeal to emotion} is far more important than anything {liberal/leftist/socialist/Intellectual Elitist} propaganda says. Why would women want bodily sovereignty anyway? Such a decision would be {psychologically damaging/unfair to the father/ other excuses that somehow magically proves me right}. {INSERT RAMBLING AND ENDLESS REPEATING OF ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED}; {INSERT DISMISSAL OF FACTS AND REALITY}.”

Okay, I think I got most of the possible replies to this that the pro-life movement's advocates on this thread may have.

[Datlofff]

Here is a study that discusses the impacts of unintended pregnancy on both parents and children.

Another discussing the impacts on women who wanted to abort but could not.

Legalizing abortion has led to a significant drop in crime.

Most adult women who have abortions do not have mental health problems as a result of them.

Children born of unintended pregnancies tend to have poorer developmental scores.

Sorry to infodump, but there seem to be reasons that abortion is sometimes better than carrying to term.

Why not put it up for adoption instead of killing it?

[Mardla]

I am opposed to taking a human life except as punishment for a serious crime, or to neutralize an existential threat.

[The New California Republic]

Here is a study that discusses the impacts of unintended pregnancy on both parents and children.

Another discussing the impacts on women who wanted to abort but could not.

Legalizing abortion has led to a significant drop in crime.

Most adult women who have abortions do not have mental health problems as a result of them.

Children born of unintended pregnancies tend to have poorer developmental scores.

Sorry to infodump, but there seem to be reasons that abortion is sometimes better than carrying to term.

Why not put it up for adoption instead of killing it?

...because the woman would need to go through 9 months of pregnancy before that happens...? And because chucking another 600,000+ babies into the already creaking adoption and foster system isn't a viable solution...?

[Mardla]

Why not put it up for adoption instead of killing it?

...because the woman would need to go through 9 months of pregnancy before that happens...? And because chucking another 600,000+ babies into the already creaking adoption and foster system isn't a viable solution...?

The adoption/foster system is only creaking past infancy because adopting parents mostly want infants, not older children.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I am opposed to taking a human life except as punishment for a serious crime, or to neutralize an existential threat.

So you are pro-choice? *thonk*

[Mardla]

I am opposed to taking a human life except as punishment for a serious crime, or to neutralize an existential threat.

So you are pro-choice? *thonk*

No.

[The New California Republic]

...because the woman would need to go through 9 months of pregnancy before that happens...? And because chucking another 600,000+ babies into the already creaking adoption and foster system isn't a viable solution...?

The adoption/foster system is only creaking past infancy because adopting parents mostly want infants, not older children.

Around 140,000 children are adopted in the U.S. every year. There is no way that another 600,000+ babies being added to the adoption system every year would be met by an equivalent increase in adoptions. Most of those kids would age out before they are adopted.

[Mardla]

The adoption/foster system is only creaking past infancy because adopting parents mostly want infants, not older children.

Around 140,000 children are adopted in the U.S. every year. There is no way that another 600,000+ babies being added to the adoption system every year would be met by an equivalent increase in adoptions. Most of those kids would age out before they are adopted.

I don't consider euthanizing them to be a morally acceptable solution, but there is already a super high demand for infants. Infant adoption was twice as high in the 1970's, and there were a lot fewer parents available then (the only difference is there were twice as many infants up for adoption).

[San Lumen]

I am opposed to taking a human life except as punishment for a serious crime, or to neutralize an existential threat.

A women whose a victim of rape or incest should be forced to carry the child to term? In the case of toxic pregnancy the life of the fetus is more important and therefore the mother allowed to die?

[Datlofff]

Why not put it up for adoption instead of killing it?

...because the woman would need to go through 9 months of pregnancy before that happens...? And because chucking another 600,000+ babies into the already creaking adoption and foster system isn't a viable solution...?

Almost like...we should put more money into the system. Also with the rising acceptance of gay people in culture, I wouldn't imagine that gay couples who can't have kids wouldn't happily take unwanted children.