Is it OK to like the output of artists w/unfavourable views?

[USS Monitor]

Most people have both good and bad in them. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with something that someone did or said, but still appreciating the quality of their music. I don't have a particularly good opinion of Lynyrd Skynyrd, but "Sweet Home Alabama" is still a catchy tune.

[Garden at 6th Mile Road]

They might be awful people outside, but you cannot deny that they have musical talent, and there is nothing wrong with you for liking that music.

[Ostroeuropa]

Mate, i'll go one further, I like horst-wessel-lied, a song about naziism sung by nazis. Even the subject matter doesn't have to impact your appreciation for a work. Hell, Birth of a Nation is a groundbreaking piece of cinematography, important to understand the history of film and cinema, and the work of Leni Riefenstahl (The woman who basically DEFINED Fascism in terms of artistry and how its pageantry is remembered.) is of vital importance to understand as a craft.

You know all those Nazi movies? Hitler shot from beneath, wide shots of marches, top-down views of masses and so on, regimented troops walking into place to form a swastika, all that crap? Riefenstahl. A lot of the time when people remember fascism, they're actually remembering Films made ABOUT fascism by Riefenstahl.

It's also worth noting the fashion choices of such regimes, they themselves are artistry. A lot of the fashion styles of fascism and naziism weren't drawn from nowhere or sourced directly in the ideology, but instead were tapping into cultural norms of the period for what The Future looked like, regimented, straight lines and angles, functional, and so on, standing in contrast to traditionalism and its suits, ties, and bowler hats.

Understanding and appreciating the artistry of awful people, even if they express their awfulness through the art, is necessary to combating it by pointing out exactly what they're doing, sneaking bullshit past you by hiding it amidst beauty, skillful craftsmanship, or awe. Being able to explain;

"These videos you think make nazism look awesome? They're nothing to do with naziism. It's about cinematography, let me explain the precise difference, using these techniques, we can make capitalism or communism look amazing too, albeit, the language of cinema might require some alterations in places, but broadly, it's about cinematography, not ideology."

The abdication on these styles that the west did out of aversion to naziism was an own goal in my opinion, they've left them with extremely skilled and talented craftsmen and their particular artistic visions and styles perpetually overrepresented in fascist ideology. Sort of like if the only music with bass guitar in it was fascist propoganda because we associated the bass with fascism and didn't want to use it.

[Nordengrund]

Well, I unsubscribed from Channel Aessome for its controversies, misogyny and rape allegations even though Inreally like the Nostalgia Critic’s content. I don’t know if I should confine boycotting or not.

[USS Monitor]

Well, I unsubscribed from Channel Aessome for its controversies, misogyny and rape allegations even though Inreally like the Nostalgia Critic’s content. I don’t know if I should confine boycotting or not.

It's OK to appreciate someone's creativity in spite of their flaws, but it's also OK to boycott someone if you feel strongly about what they've done.

[The New California Republic]

what do you think? Is it OK to like the output of artists with reprehensible views or actions?

Yes. For example, I am really into architecture, including the work of Le Corbusier, yet he proposed knocking the historic Paris city center down to create a towerblock city. Artists are people, they are bound to have some unflattering attributes or views, but that doesn't necessarily devalue their work.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I guess.

[Kalaron]

This reminds me of the old situation with Jontron. I hated how people treated him, frankly, because he's a comedian first and foremost. Not seperating opinion from jokes is sad to me, and though I'll never force "You should like this" on people, I do wisv we could lighten up as a society :/

[Wallenburg]

As long as the art itself isn't reflective of those unfavorable views, enjoying the art doesn't mean you sympathize with those views.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

It is okay to like the art, but I can see the reasoning for not supporting the artist knowing that some of that money will be used unethically. But if the not supporting anyone who would use money unethically is taken to its purest and most extreme form, you almost certainly must become self sufficient, either alone or with others who have identical morals.

[Olthar]

I still think Braveheart is a good movie, so I'd say yes.

[Valgora]

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/venue_cancels_alabama_musician.html

Recently, Philip McCain's show in Birmingham was cancelled after he "volunteered" on Facebook to shoot illegal immigrants.

And that got me thinking - is it OK to go to a McCain concert, or enjoy his music, knowing that and not being a racist? Is it OK in any case of liking art by artists who held or acted on opinions you think are reprehensible (e.g. liking Hitler's paintings, unless you're a Nazi)?

I would say that this is OK, as I detach an artist's work from their views, unless they try to convey them through it. A musician, writer, sculptor, etc. can be a racist, an abject homophobe, a genocide denier or the like, but I'll only judge them as and artist.

Cases in point: I still love the original Lynyrd Skynyrd after learning that their drummer is a registered sex offender and their backstage behaviour used to be quite racist, Eric Clapton's music didn't get any worse for me after hearing about his racism, and AC/DC isn't much worse when the guy behind the drums orders a hit.

I just listen to musicians' output, not their opinions.


And what do you think? Is it OK to like the output of artists with reprehensible views or actions?

I'd say it depends on the artist and whether or not they're personal unfavorable views are a part of their work.

[Liriena]

I think it's a grey area, ethically speaking. The most concrete answer I could give is "it depends on how extreme the views expressed are and how they relate to your own life".

I can enjoy J.K. Rowling's work despite her having some political views I find misguided. I enjoy J.R.R. Tolkien's work despite his support for Franco. However, I could never bring myself to read, say, Orson Scott Card's work because his views on LGBT+ rights are not only views that I strongly disagree with, but they are also views that affect me on a personal level.

I love RedLetterMedia even though I'm fairly certain they aren't socialists, but I also gave up on JonTron when it turned out he was a racist idiot.

[Thanatttynia]

Yes. If you are alive right now, you have to deal with the fact that ~95% of all art produced before the 20th century will most likely have been made by someone who thought you should burn in hell for whatever reason. What, then, should you do? Ignoring it, not reaping its benefits doesn't matter to these artists - they're dead. You're doing yourself a disservice, denying yourself the opportunity to learn from, engage with and enjoy great art. I would say fuck them and reappropriate 'their' art for yourself, keeping in mind their potential biases etc.

I understand that the issue becomes more complex when the artist is still alive. I personally don't see why this should make a difference; the art is not the artist, although there is a link there. Every interaction anyone has with a piece of art is fundamentally different from the next person's, each person interpreting art changes the artwork itself, so that it's a bit disingenuous to claim any work of art has just one author (the artist who originally collated their influences and original thoughts into one coherent work of art.)

Of course, it gets murkier still when it's possible this artist who is not a good person might materially profit from your consumption of their art. In these cases, I'd say use personal discretion as to who you choose to support.

[Reploid Productions]

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/venue_cancels_alabama_musician.html

Recently, Philip McCain's show in Birmingham was cancelled after he "volunteered" on Facebook to shoot illegal immigrants.

And that got me thinking - is it OK to go to a McCain concert, or enjoy his music, knowing that and not being a racist? Is it OK in any case of liking art by artists who held or acted on opinions you think are reprehensible (e.g. liking Hitler's paintings, unless you're a Nazi)?

I would say that this is OK, as I detach an artist's work from their views, unless they try to convey them through it. A musician, writer, sculptor, etc. can be a racist, an abject homophobe, a genocide denier or the like, but I'll only judge them as and artist.

Cases in point: I still love the original Lynyrd Skynyrd after learning that their drummer is a registered sex offender and their backstage behaviour used to be quite racist, Eric Clapton's music didn't get any worse for me after hearing about his racism, and AC/DC isn't much worse when the guy behind the drums orders a hit.

I just listen to musicians' output, not their opinions.


And what do you think? Is it OK to like the output of artists with reprehensible views or actions?

I'd say it depends on the artist and whether or not they're personal unfavorable views are a part of their work.

^-- Basically this. In most cases I can separate the creator and their opinions from their work, though there are a few where the creator's opinions/behavior is sufficiently abhorrent that I could not do so. Having grown up on country music, there are tons of country singers who have political views I disagree with, often quite strongly, but I still enjoy their music. Then there's some who drag their vile views into their music that I have since stopped supporting as a result. Or a non-music example: Rurouni Kenshin was one of my favorite anime series in the 90s/early 00s. Love the story, love the characters... however when Nobuhiro Watsuki was busted for owning child pornography... yeah. Even though there's new Kenshin stuff coming out, I just can not in good conscience support it after that. I'm not trashing the merch I already own or anything as that would be completely pointless, but I'm not buying anything else!

It's a super squishy area, subjective depending on the artist's particular views/actions, your personal views, and so on. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with liking the stuff created by somebody with disagreeable views, it just means you have a higher degree of separation between the creator and their work. By the same token, there's nothing wrong with other people reacting to you with some variation of "How can you support them?!"... which while it can instigate flamewars it can also instigate some really good discussion.

[Divitalia]

As long as their views don’t bleed into their art, I don’t see a problem with it.

[Shrillland]

It is OK to like art while opposing an artist, which is applicable both for politics and for actions. I've enjoyed many films and songs by people who are politically reprehensible including Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. I've watched The Birth of a Nation, and as racist as it is, there's a part of me that says it's got good qualities as a film despite its horrific message.

I found myself thinking about this a lot lately since all the allegations started coming out and #MeToo began, which I'm actually surprised hasn't come up in this discussion yet. As much as I believe that the things that men like Kevin Spacey and Garrison Keillor did are bad and should be punished, I still can't find it in me to dislike a lot of the work that people like that made if I liked it before. There are some works I can't enjoy anymore because the artist's actions changed the meaning of the work IMO. But a lot of it I still like as art in its own right. And as a lot of people have said, it's OK to cast out art and artist if you find it now unconscionable.

[The Two Jerseys]

Bruce Springsteen is an insufferable liberal and Roman Polanski should be rotting in prison, but that doesn't stop me from cranking up "Born to Run" or watching Chinatown.

Furthermore, this damnatio memoriae of celebrities accused of sexual assault seriously needs to stop.

[Huntpublic]

It is OK to like art while opposing an artist, which is applicable both for politics and for actions. I've enjoyed many films and songs by people who are politically reprehensible including Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. I've watched The Birth of a Nation, and as racist as it is, there's a part of me that says it's got good qualities as a film despite its horrific message.

I found myself thinking about this a lot lately since all the allegations started coming out and #MeToo began, which I'm actually surprised hasn't come up in this discussion yet. As much as I believe that the things that men like Kevin Spacey and Garrison Keillor did are bad and should be punished, I still can't find it in me to dislike a lot of the work that people like that made if I liked it before. There are some works I can't enjoy anymore because the artist's actions changed the meaning of the work IMO. But a lot of it I still like as art in its own right. And as a lot of people have said, it's OK to cast out art and artist if you find it now unconscionable.

I completely agree with you on that. It's unfortunate that people who have opposing political views try and boycott each other(this happens on the both right and left) or try and injure each other's reputation. But, I guess it's a way to get a leg up on each party(political ideal etc.

And with the whole sexual harassment things that happen with actors(and maybe actresses idk), people should never do things like that it's wrong. But, that doesn't stop one from liking what those actors/actresses create. It can, though, hurt their image and effects their chances of getting jobs and such. Karma I guess...

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

I hate giving money to people I find personally abhorrent, even though I like their performance.

Roger waters being such an anti Semitic cunt, I regret spending money on his music, as much as i like it, as it just increases his ability to speak.

Roger Waters an anri-semite? I think he is anti-Israel, but calling him anti-Semitic would go way too far.

They might be awful people outside, but you cannot deny that they have musical talent, and there is nothing wrong with you for liking that music.

Yeah, I agree. It's disappointing to see some very talented artists have had abominable political views (I mean, Salvador Dali was a crazy fascist), but at the end of the day, you need to give the devils their due. If they produce good art, they are good artists, and there is no blame in liking their art.

[Skyhooked]

Life is not only about political views. But such things still can influence opinion on artist's output., after all, output relates to artist, so psychologically those things are tied up together in brain. One may try to separate them by trying to forget about artist and not the things, but this has varied success rate, which probably depends on moon and stars.

[Nordengrund]

Well, I unsubscribed from Channel Aessome for its controversies, misogyny and rape allegations even though Inreally like the Nostalgia Critic’s content. I don’t know if I should confine boycotting or not.

It's OK to appreciate someone's creativity in spite of their flaws, but it's also OK to boycott someone if you feel strongly about what they've done.

I don’t know how to feel about it to be honest, and some artists I like have done (possibly) worse.

[Major-Tom]

Unless I hear their views echoed in most of their work, I usually can separate the artist's personal opinions and their music. Same goes for if the artist is just a fucking dick. For instance, Morrissey is a spoiled brat, but I still find myself liking his music.

[San Marlindo]

It depends on whether music is more important to you than politics.

If politics was the most important thing to me, I could never again listen to Hank Jr or Willie Nelson.

But as it so happens, I care more about their music than I do their political views, so I can enjoy their songs with a clear conscience.

[Major-Tom]

It depends on whether music is more important to you than politics.

If politics was the most important thing to me, I could never again listen to Hank Jr or Willie Nelson.

But as it so happens, I care more about their music than I do their political views, so I can enjoy their songs with a clear conscience.

Always thought Willie Nelson's politics never really stemmed beyond "I like my weed, my guns, and my populism."