Puerto Rico and the UN

[San Marlindo]

One more year has passed since the last UN meeting on the decolonization of the US territory of Puerto Rico. Like most years, people from PR. and other nations talked in front of a committe on decolonization. You can read about what happened below. In PR. all the political parties are in agreement that PR. is in fact a US colony. Even the US government has hinted that PR. is a colony with no actual sovereignty.

PR. problem has been that the different political parties in PR. are not united when they go in front of the US congress. But it seems this might be changing. With all the problems PR. is facing a large segment of the population want results and less talk. When it comes to results it seems the head of the independence party has gotten both the Commonwealth party and Statehood party to agree on having conversations on forming a united front before the US congress when it comes to the decolonization of PR.. Time will tell the results.

I think this united front will be productive since people want actual results which benefit PR. No more feet dragging. Of course, chances are the big losers will be the traditional parties. Chances are something new will pop up to save the day, Cough cough ...Yulin.. Cough cough.

You can read here on the UN decolonization of PR. - https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gacol3324.doc.htm

The UN also considers the Falkland Islands and French Polynesia unrepresented colonies, despite the fact that the majority of people there have no interest in self-determination.

Is there any wonder that it applies the same logic to Puerto Rico?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_C ... lonization

[Greater Miami Shores]

One more year has passed since the last UN meeting on the decolonization of the US territory of Puerto Rico. Like most years, people from PR. and other nations talked in front of a committe on decolonization. You can read about what happened below. In PR. all the political parties are in agreement that PR. is in fact a US colony. Even the US government has hinted that PR. is a colony with no actual sovereignty.

PR. problem has been that the different political parties in PR. are not united when they go in front of the US congress. But it seems this might be changing. With all the problems PR. is facing a large segment of the population want results and less talk. When it comes to results it seems the head of the independence party has gotten both the Commonwealth party and Statehood party to agree on having conversations on forming a united front before the US congress when it comes to the decolonization of PR.. Time will tell the results.

I think this united front will be productive since people want actual results which benefit PR. No more feet dragging. Of course, chances are the big losers will be the traditional parties. Chances are something new will pop up to save the day, Cough cough ...Yulin.. Cough cough.

You can read here on the UN decolonization of PR. - https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gacol3324.doc.htm

The UN also considers the Falkland Islands and French Polynesia unrepresented colonies, despite the fact that the majority of people there have no interest in self-determination.

Is there any wonder that it applies the same logic to Puerto Rico?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_C ... lonization

I agree with San Marlindo.

[Pasong Tirad]

One more year has passed since the last UN meeting on the decolonization of the US territory of Puerto Rico. Like most years, people from PR. and other nations talked in front of a committe on decolonization. You can read about what happened below. In PR. all the political parties are in agreement that PR. is in fact a US colony. Even the US government has hinted that PR. is a colony with no actual sovereignty.

PR. problem has been that the different political parties in PR. are not united when they go in front of the US congress. But it seems this might be changing. With all the problems PR. is facing a large segment of the population want results and less talk. When it comes to results it seems the head of the independence party has gotten both the Commonwealth party and Statehood party to agree on having conversations on forming a united front before the US congress when it comes to the decolonization of PR.. Time will tell the results.

I think this united front will be productive since people want actual results which benefit PR. No more feet dragging. Of course, chances are the big losers will be the traditional parties. Chances are something new will pop up to save the day, Cough cough ...Yulin.. Cough cough.

You can read here on the UN decolonization of PR. - https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gacol3324.doc.htm

The UN also considers the Falkland Islands and French Polynesia unrepresented colonies, despite the fact that the majority of people there have no interest in self-determination.

Is there any wonder that it applies the same logic to Puerto Rico?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_C ... lonization

That Special Committee, funnily enough, has as its member probably the biggest imperialist in the world right now: China.

So, I mean, maybe we shouldn't take their word too seriously next time when they say "Decolonize Puerto Rico!"?

[Greater Miami Shores]

One more year has passed since the last UN meeting on the decolonization of the US territory of Puerto Rico. Like most years, people from PR. and other nations talked in front of a committe on decolonization. You can read about what happened below. In PR. all the political parties are in agreement that PR. is in fact a US colony. Even the US government has hinted that PR. is a colony with no actual sovereignty.

PR. problem has been that the different political parties in PR. are not united when they go in front of the US congress. But it seems this might be changing. With all the problems PR. is facing a large segment of the population want results and less talk. When it comes to results it seems the head of the independence party has gotten both the Commonwealth party and Statehood party to agree on having conversations on forming a united front before the US congress when it comes to the decolonization of PR.. Time will tell the results.

I think this united front will be productive since people want actual results which benefit PR. No more feet dragging. Of course, chances are the big losers will be the traditional parties. Chances are something new will pop up to save the day, Cough cough ...Yulin.. Cough cough.

You can read here on the UN decolonization of PR. - https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gacol3324.doc.htm

The UN also considers the Falkland Islands and French Polynesia unrepresented colonies, despite the fact that the majority of people there have no interest in self-determination.

Is there any wonder that it applies the same logic to Puerto Rico?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_C ... lonization

I agree with San Marlindo.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... erritories

Gibraltar is a prime example of resident desires to remain with the status quo. Gibraltar, a largely self-governing British territory on the tip of the Iberian Peninsula whose territory is claimed by Spain, has twice held a referendum to resolve its status. In the first referendum, held in 1967, the choices in the ballot were either to retain their current status or to become part of Spain. The status quo was favoured by 12,138 votes to 44. In the second referendum, held in 2002, a proposal for a joint British-Spanish administration of the territory was proposed, and was voted down by 17,900 votes to 187 – the "no" vote accounting for more than 85% of Gibraltar's entire voting population.[7] Neither of the referenda, however, gained recognition from the UN, with the 1967 referendum being declared to be in contravention of previous UN resolutions.[8]

Quoting that to show silly it all is. The UN may declare a colony and it doesn't matter if 100% of the population likes being a part of the nation they are a part of. Votes don't matter unless they vote to break away in the UN's eyes.

[Rio Cana]

The governor of PR. visited the US Pres. today. The governor asked about Statehood for PR. The Pres.is quoted to have said the following -

The first two quotes come from Jeff Mason.

⁦@realDonaldTrump⁩ joked with governor of Puerto Rico, who advocated that PR become the 51rst US state, that he has to guarantee that it would have two Republican senatorsDonaldTrump⁩ joked with governor of Puerto Rico, who advocated that PR become the 51rst US state, that he has to guarantee that it would have two Republican senators

.⁦@realDonaldTrump⁩ tells governor of Puerto Rico: I think we’ve helped you a lot.

Quote from Toluse Olorunnipa

Trump tells governors that Puerto Rico's @RicardoRosello was "very brilliant" because "he blamed the hurricane for destroying the power plant."

Trump trashed PR's pre-hurricane plant as "virtually useless"

This came after Rossello said Puerto Rico wants to become 51st state.

[Gaine Moon]

They would also lose millions in subsidies from the US government.

Exactly. Especially after being ravaged by Hurricane Maria, the last thing PR needs is less money their way.

[Olerand]

Does Puerto Rico want to be independent? Let it hold a referendum. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

[Rio Cana]

They would also lose millions in subsidies from the US government.

Exactly. Especially after being ravaged by Hurricane Maria, the last thing PR needs is less money their way.

It seems the US is not releasing much of that money they promised when it comes to certain programs since they do not trust the local government. The island government says to reconstruct PR. will cosS $94 billion which they have asked for. So far a little over $60 billion could be pouring in if not more. That is once they are fully released.

In March a local newspaper did a study. The study pointed out that when it comes to the money being transfered between PR. and the US, that the US is the one economically benefitting by 2 to 1. The newspaper article said that at least with the expected US money to rebuild PR. that is suppose to flood into repairing PR. that this economic benefit should be somewhat in favor of PR. for this and next year. Once again, that is if all of the money is ever released.

Found this story from eight days ago which is titled "Allocations have less impact than expected
The island has received about 10 percent of the approved federal assignments"- https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/engl ... d-2428415/

[Uxupox]

The governor of PR. visited the US Pres. today. The governor asked about Statehood for PR. The Pres.is quoted to have said the following -

The first two quotes come from Jeff Mason.

⁦@realDonaldTrump⁩ joked with governor of Puerto Rico, who advocated that PR become the 51rst US state, that he has to guarantee that it would have two Republican senatorsDonaldTrump⁩ joked with governor of Puerto Rico, who advocated that PR become the 51rst US state, that he has to guarantee that it would have two Republican senators

.⁦@realDonaldTrump⁩ tells governor of Puerto Rico: I think we’ve helped you a lot.

Quote from Toluse Olorunnipa

Trump tells governors that Puerto Rico's @RicardoRosello was "very brilliant" because "he blamed the hurricane for destroying the power plant."

Trump trashed PR's pre-hurricane plant as "virtually useless"

This came after Rossello said Puerto Rico wants to become 51st state.

our power plants are absolute trash. i still remember when Eduardo Bhatia tried instute a program to maybe fix it (or at least do something about it) but every local politician was against it. it's no wonder power outages were of normal occurrence before the hurricane since we have shit heads for leaders.

[Kubra]

Um no. Like you’re ideas in the Dino thread this is also dumb

So you'd rather see a culture get absorbed into American culture? Are you an imperialist or something? I mean what about all the Hispanic people with cultural heritage living on the island? You want to start a riot that would only effect and diminish a beautiful culture? Like Internationalist Bastard said modern day Puerto Rico is just fine and doesn't need anymore U.S interaction then it already has.

I mean
kinda
Despite Americans, American culture is actually quite nice, even the food.

[Tahar Joblis]

We can't force that, though.

Forget about forcing it, what are the benefits of being a state? And do they outweigh the benefits of being a Commonwealth?

A commonwealth is potentially the best compromise. Where PR has its independence and receives the benefits of being part of the US. If it was independent, it would be harder to immigrate to the US, but it would still be a poor country with a bad government and a lot of debt. If it was a state, people could influence US politics, but might have to pay more taxes, abide by US laws, and still be a poor place with a bad government and a lot of debt.

I am not sure how different the US laws are than the PR ones, so that is a big question. I imagine there are a lot of laws that PR still has to abide by when it comes to civil rights etc.

In theory there are also a lot of intermediate steps to becoming a state, or independent that could be taken. For example, PR could mint its own currency. It could also receive some substantial voice in the Federal government (through an amendment) without being a state.

That's like saying slavery is potentially the best compromise between being free and being part of the family.

Now, not so fast!
I didn't think--
The way I am,
I have a roof, three meals a day,
And I don't have to pay a thing.
I'm just a slave and everything's free.
If I were free, then nothing would be free!
And if I'm beaten now and then, what does it matter?

Look at statehood again. Puerto Ricans would suddenly have to pay income tax... those few who actually make enough money for that to matter. It would have a much larger effect on corporate taxation. On the flip side, massive increases in benefits eligibility would mean a lot for a lot of Puerto Ricans in the lower income brackets.

In other words, statehood would cost Puerto Rico's elites (rich people and large corporations) a bit while benefiting the ordinary people of Puerto Rico a lot.

Then, of course, one of the things that statehood and closer integration with the mainland would also probably bring, in addition to a lot more federal money, is increased scrutiny and increased accountability. Puerto Rico's elites have been skimming a lot off the top over the years. I'm not saying that every Puerto Rican politician is corrupt, but Puerto Rico has a corruption problem.

Independence would let Puerto Rico resolve its debt problems by defaulting and handling its own monetary policy. The US constitution bars states from printing their own currencies for very good reasons, and Puerto Rico will not be granted special dispensation to mint its own money via constitutional amendment. Similarly, Puerto Rico is only going to get voting representation in the federal government if there's a big push to generalize the 23rd amendment to cover all territories. It's not just going to be granted to Puerto Rico as a special case.

There's no popular support outside of Puerto Rico itself for Puerto Rico continuing indefinitely as a subject territory and never has been... much less the level of support needed to pass a constitutional amendment, which is very difficult.

[Thermodolia]

Does Puerto Rico want to be independent? Let it hold a referendum. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

They’ve had a total of 8 as of this point in time. Every single time they vote against independence. It’s basically the American Falklands or that French Territory that keeps voting to remain French but the UN doesn’t seem to notice.

In the 2012 referendum only 5.25% of Puerto Rico voted for independence.

[Thermodolia]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_list_of_Non-Self-Governing_Territories

Gibraltar is a prime example of resident desires to remain with the status quo. Gibraltar, a largely self-governing British territory on the tip of the Iberian Peninsula whose territory is claimed by Spain, has twice held a referendum to resolve its status. In the first referendum, held in 1967, the choices in the ballot were either to retain their current status or to become part of Spain. The status quo was favoured by 12,138 votes to 44. In the second referendum, held in 2002, a proposal for a joint British-Spanish administration of the territory was proposed, and was voted down by 17,900 votes to 187 – the "no" vote accounting for more than 85% of Gibraltar's entire voting population.[7] Neither of the referenda, however, gained recognition from the UN, with the 1967 referendum being declared to be in contravention of previous UN resolutions.[8]

Quoting that to show silly it all is. The UN may declare a colony and it doesn't matter if 100% of the population likes being a part of the nation they are a part of. Votes don't matter unless they vote to break away in the UN's eyes.

Or the Falklands and the three people who wanted independence. Ya the UN in this regard definitely sucks ass

[Katganistan]

Well then they could join but we should have little to some interaction in the way they do things. To preserve cultural aspects of course.

They have been Americans for over a hundred years and their culture is thriving, thank you. The problem isn't assimilation -- because you do have quite distinct cultures in regions of the US, and people who live in areas surrounded by their own ethnicity on the mainland don't change.

The problem is "You're American when it suits us -- thanks for the military base and for the exports, but fuck you very much when a hurricane devastates the island and we should be sending relief. Oh and no vote and virtually no representation for you, but thanks for the billions you send us in Federal taxes!"

They've been treated poorly, and that should stop.

[Tahar Joblis]

Does Puerto Rico want to be independent? Let it hold a referendum. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

They’ve had a total of 8 as of this point in time. Every single time they vote against independence. It’s basically the American Falklands or that French Territory that keeps voting to remain French but the UN doesn’t seem to notice.

In the 2012 referendum only 5.25% of Puerto Rico voted for independence.

More like 4%. A lot of Puerto Ricans left the second question blank because they were happy with the current status and didn't want a change. However, that poll also included a "free association" option that boils down to "political independence but ask the US to keep giving us money and military protection," which gives you another 24%. Put those together, and you have 28% in favor of sovereignty (just that most of those want the US to keep helping Puerto Rico out).

Here's the most informative read of what the 2012 referendum tells you as a snapshot of Puerto Rican opinion. To the degree that Puerto Ricans showed up to the polls and voted honestly:

• 96% wanted to continue to have close ties with the US
• 46% preferred the status quo just as it is.
• 44% preferred statehood over sovereignty.
• 28% preferred sovereignty over statehood.
• 28% flatly refused to say if they preferred sovereignty or statehood (presumably due to very strong preference for the status quo).
• 4% wanted to cut existing ties with the US.

If you genuinely force the issue to be ultimately be between eventual independence and eventual statehood, support for independence goes up, because the PPD types in the middle aren't just breaking in favor of statehood.

The PNP was trying to force the issue with commonwealth status, as this is basically what the Bush and Obama administrations both told the Puerto Rican government ("Look, in the long term, you have two choices, either independence or statehood, pick.") If the PPD leadership hadn't declared a boycott, there probably would have been a majority in favor of statehood over sovereignty, but a mandate for either course of action would have been anathema to the PPD.

[Tahar Joblis]

Does Puerto Rico want to be independent? Let it hold a referendum. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

They’ve had a total of 8 as of this point in time. Every single time they vote against independence. It’s basically the American Falklands or that French Territory that keeps voting to remain French but the UN doesn’t seem to notice.

In the 2012 referendum only 5.25% of Puerto Rico voted for independence.

Those modern French "colonies" have representation in the national government. They're legally a full-status part of France that just happens to be geographically dispersed. I'd say their status is like that of Hawaii or Alaska, more or less.

[Benjabobaria]

Statehood is the best option.

[Sovaal]

State or independent, I don’t care, but the current situation seems unworkable for much longer.

[Oil exporting People]

Well then they could join but we should have little to some interaction in the way they do things. To preserve cultural aspects of course.

They have been Americans for over a hundred years and their culture is thriving, thank you. The problem isn't assimilation -- because you do have quite distinct cultures in regions of the US, and people who live in areas surrounded by their own ethnicity on the mainland don't change.

The problem is "You're American when it suits us -- thanks for the military base and for the exports, but fuck you very much when a hurricane devastates the island and we should be sending relief. Oh and no vote and virtually no representation for you, but thanks for the billions you send us in Federal taxes!"

They've been treated poorly, and that should stop.

So I see you have no idea what you speak of.

[Petrasylvania]

So who has the most to gain from keeping Puerto Rico a territory only deserving of paper towels after natural disasters?

[Tahar Joblis]

So who has the most to gain from keeping Puerto Rico a territory only deserving of paper towels after natural disasters?

Kleptocratic Puerto Rican political elites and anyone personally attached to them?