Turkey: eating left-handed is demonic

[Major-Tom]

Turkey has been a hellhole for human rights ever since Recap Tayip 'My mother's feet smell like paradise' Erdogan came to power. Of course he would let religious authorities make this type of statement.

From my perspective, it just shows what happened when AKP got into power over a decade ago. They transformed a growing democracy with a secular(ish) foundation into whatever mess they have now. It isn't full on Islamism, but from a purely objective ideological perspective, it's getting close.

[Sovaal]

I never said "pretend it doesn't exist". What you are saying is not my intention.

Splitting hairs. You are dismissing any argument that does not line up with Islam, and by default results in ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

That’s theocrats for you.

[Kubumba Tribe]

As for Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) being wrong, it's entirely possible for him (SAWS) and other prophets (AS) to make mistakes: https://islamqa.info/en/7208

[The New California Republic]

So why give a shit what he has to say?

http://legacy.quran.com/4/69

Any other source for that besides the Koran, as it probably isn't the most impartial source in this case, since it was written by the person whom the question is about...

[Kubumba Tribe]

I never said "pretend it doesn't exist". What you are saying is not my intention.

Splitting hairs. You are dismissing any argument that does not line up with Islam, and by default results in ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

No I'm not

Sahih al-Bukhari is accepting among Sunnis and some Sufis (and others)

http://legacy.quran.com/4/69

And how do you know the Quran is correct?

http://lostislamichistory.com/how-do-we ... unchanged/

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://legacy.quran.com/4/69

Any other source for that besides the Koran, as it probably isn't the most impartial source in this case, since it was written by the person whom the question is about...

It was written by scribes, not the Prophet (SAWS).

[South Tibet]

It may have to do with using the left hand in the toilet. I’ve heard one hand is used, but don’t know if it’s the right or left hand.

[Kramanica]

Splitting hairs. You are dismissing any argument that does not line up with Islam, and by default results in ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

No I'm not

And how do you know the Quran is correct?

http://lostislamichistory.com/how-do-we ... unchanged/

It being unchanged doesn't make it correct.

The Bible hasn't changed a whole lot either.

[Aillyria]

]

If it is actually Islam, and not some BS fatwas based on BS hadith.

Fatwas are non-binding. An Imam could write a fatwa saying that, if it existed, Muhammad would prefer Coke, but that doesn't make it a fully enforced canon of Islamic law or interpretations. If you're going to go with the Hadiths, BTW, stick with Bukhari. IIRC, that one is the most authentic and accepted one.

I know that I myself am muslim. I am a Quranist, I don't recognize the hadith as valid.

[The New California Republic]

Splitting hairs. You are dismissing any argument that does not line up with Islam, and by default results in ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist.

No I'm not

I hate to break it to you, but you very much are. You are cynically focusing on the precise words that you did/didn't say, in an attempt to underhandedly (excuse the pun yet again) invalidate my point. You really haven't countered my argument by doing that.

[The New California Republic]

Any other source for that besides the Koran, as it probably isn't the most impartial source in this case, since it was written by the person whom the question is about...

It was written by scribes, not the Prophet (SAWS).

Still not an impartial source, as it is still too close to Muhammad.

[Sovaal]

It may have to do with using the left hand in the toilet. I’ve heard one hand is used, but don’t know if it’s the right or left hand.

Should t really matter if you practice proper sanitation.

[Xmara]

Wait, it’s improper to shake hands with your left hand?

This is news to me.

[Simad]

That's exactly why I hate Islam more than every other religion, it never changed in like 1500 years, at least Christianity did changed (not so much) over the years.
Everything religion touch will go to the fucking dogs and we have too many examples of this.

[Kasynatia]

This just shows that Islam is irrational

[Washington Resistance Army]

Turkey continues to go down the silly Islamist path, news at 11.

[Oil exporting People]

Well I'm fucked then.

[Trumptonium]

But is not Turkey supposed to be a secular state?

Of course, so is Israel, yet they also are of the devil.

It wasn't until the horrible Islamist Erdogan took over. It was secular under the great nationalist leader Ataturk.

There was quite a big gap between Ataturk and Erdogan lol

[Oil exporting People]

There was quite a big gap between Ataturk and Erdogan lol

Ataturk going for that Methuselah award.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Yep.

Secondary source for those who don't like RT.

Turkey's highest religious authority has said that every pious Muslim must only use their right hand to eat and drink – because, apparently, only demons are left-handed.

Turkey’s Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet), which is an official state institution, issued a fatwa (decree) Saturday, implying that those who happen to be born left-handed should switch sides for their own good, at least when it comes to the dinner table. The fatwa came in response to a question on eating with the left hand.

“Establishing general principles regarding eating and drinking, the Prophet Muhammad did not regard eating with the left hand as pleasant,” the watchdog said, adding that the Prophet “attached great importance to this issue and warned his community that demons eat and drink using their left hand.”

“It is the duty of every Muslim to adhere to the advice and guidance of the Prophet on eating and drinking with the right hand,” Dyianet stated on its official website.

A fatwa is a legal, non-binding, but respected interpretation of the Islamic code, and is usually issued by a competent authority. In order to make sure their children abide by the table manners prescribed by the Prophet, it’s “necessary” for parents to teach them to only use their right hand to both eat and drink, it said.

An exception is made for physically disabled people who cannot comply with the guidance. The statement has drawn public backlash, with Turkey expert and journalist Marc Guillet noting on Twitter “that pious Muslims in Turkey who are left handed must feel horrible.”

Others slammed the discriminatory nature of the statement, arguing it falls in line with the ongoing crackdown on civil liberties in Turkey.

It is not Diyanet's first eyebrow-raising ruling in recent months. In January, it appeared to have endorsed the marriages of boys and girls at the age of 12 and 9 respectively. The statement, that appeared in an online religious glossary on its website, immediately caused an uproar, with opposition parties demanding a parliamentary investigation into the authority. Diyanet subsequently took down the entry, denying it was ever in favor of child marriages which is outlawed in Turkey, and said it was merely interpreting Islamic law.

In a fatwa in December, it warned that any husband who tells his wife that she resembles a female relative of his, a mother or a sister, should be automatically considered divorced from his wife.

Apart from offering lifestyle guidance, Diyanet has also dabbled in both finance and high tech, banning cryptocurrency operations as inappropriate according to Islam.

So, yeah. Turkey's Directorate of Religious Affairs (which is a state body) says that eating left-handed is demonic. So all those lefties out there, either change the way you eat or be branded as demonic. Obviously, as a lefty myself I think that this is ridiculous. But this just shows how quickly Turkey is dissolving into religious fundamentalism and absurdity under the reign of Erdogan. Ataturk must be turning in his grave.

Thoughts?

I don't live or work in Turkey, so fuck that noise. I'm not changing to please someone I've never met, or am likely to meet.

[Oil exporting People]

In a fatwa in December, it warned that any husband who tells his wife that she resembles a female relative of his, a mother or a sister, should be automatically considered divorced from his wife.

I guess that's one way to get out of alimony.

[Jordkloden]

From my perspective, it just shows what happened when AKP got into power over a decade ago. They transformed a growing democracy with a secular(ish) foundation into whatever mess they have now. It isn't full on Islamism, but from a purely objective ideological perspective, it's getting close.

It's sad really. There was such potential.

[Trumptonium]

Turkey has been a hellhole for human rights ever since Recap Tayip 'My mother's feet smell like paradise' Erdogan came to power. Of course he would let religious authorities make this type of statement.

From my perspective, it just shows what happened when AKP got into power over a decade ago. They transformed a growing democracy with a secular(ish) foundation into whatever mess they have now. It isn't full on Islamism, but from a purely objective ideological perspective, it's getting close.

AKP's claim on power lays on the economic growth foundations they have made. I as much as any other person dislike Erdogan but from a rational and objective perspective, removing our own views, his policies have been very beneficial to the economy and it is what keeps him in power.

Turkey is growing faster than China at the moment, and is set for growth of around 7.5% this year. Erdogan has doubled the size of the economy in 9 years ($1tn 2006 to $2tn 2017). It's set for around $2.3tn by 2020, which by all economic standards, is amazing.

You can criticise Netanyahu and Erdogan for a lot of things, but the manipulating of fiscal policy over their 9 and 14 year tenure is not one of them, as both have doubled their economies without use of excessive credit in less than a decade. Which is impressive for an economy their size. It's also what, again, keeps them in power.

It's actually funny when people talk about populists and their hatred towards them, because populists tend to be .. popular .. due to the rise of living standards that occur under them. We're also seeing the same economic boom happen in several Central and Eastern European countries as well as a minor upturn in growth in China with Xi and his more people-based view of the world. You can say they are brainwashed or intimidated into voting a particular way or the system is stacked in favour of them, but the fact is that Russians and Turks abroad love Putin and Erdogan as much as those within it. It's down to the visible improvements in quality of life. Financial markets quite like it too - Stable and untransparent is as favourable as transparent and unstable. We might not know what goes on behind closed doors in Ankara or Beijing, but what we do know is where Xi wants to be in 2040 and where Erdogan wants to be in 2025. We don't know where May wants to be next week, even if we know everything that she knows. Which is nothing.

Perhaps, just like Roosevelt II stipulated, the best case against radicalism is the success of status quo. Which isn't successful by any measure at the moment.

[Ethel mermania]

From my perspective, it just shows what happened when AKP got into power over a decade ago. They transformed a growing democracy with a secular(ish) foundation into whatever mess they have now. It isn't full on Islamism, but from a purely objective ideological perspective, it's getting close.

AKP's claim on power lays on the economic growth foundations they have made. I as much as any other person dislike Erdogan but from a rational and objective perspective, removing our own views, his policies have been very beneficial to the economy and it is what keeps him in power.

Turkey is growing faster than China at the moment, and is set for growth of around 7.5% this year. Erdogan has doubled the size of the economy in 9 years ($1tn 2006 to $2tn 2017). It's set for around $2.3tn by 2020, which by all economic standards, is amazing.

You can criticise Netanyahu and Erdogan for a lot of things, but the manipulating of fiscal policy over their 9 and 14 year tenure is not one of them, as both have doubled their economies without use of excessive credit in less than a decade. Which is impressive for an economy their size. It's also what, again, keeps them in power.

It's actually funny when people talk about populists and their hatred towards them, because populists tend to be .. popular .. due to the rise of living standards that occur under them. We're also seeing the same economic boom happen in several Central and Eastern European countries as well as a minor upturn in growth in China with Xi and his more people-based view of the world. You can say they are brainwashed or intimidated into voting a particular way or the system is stacked in favour of them, but the fact is that Russians and Turks abroad love Putin and Erdogan as much as those within it. It's down to the visible improvements in quality of life. Financial markets quite like it too - Stable and untransparent is as favourable as transparent and unstable. We might not know what goes on behind closed doors in Ankara or Beijing, but what we do know is where Xi wants to be in 2040 and where Erdogan wants to be in 2025. We don't know where May wants to be next week, even if we know everything that she knows. Which is nothing.

Perhaps, just like Roosevelt II stipulated, the best case against radicalism is the success of status quo. Which isn't successful by any measure at the moment.

On the shoals of roast beef and mash potatoes every great revolution has crashed.

And as an aside. RIP john, I enjoyed him as an actor.

[Katganistan]

They're not the only ones.

In some cultures, eating with the left hand is considered disgusting because that's the hand you're supposed to use to wipe yourself after defecating.

The left hand was seen as demonic in Christianity too -- hence the word sinister and sinistra (left) in Italian.