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Would you compromise your ideology for survival?

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Would you compromise your ideology to join a tribe if doing so gave you the best chance of survival?

No, I would survive some other way or if necessary, or if necessary, die with my integrity.
38
21%
Yes, but only if my survival depended on it (meaning other means were unworkable for some reason)
33
18%
No, every society needs dissenters, and if that reduces my personal survival chances, so be it.
14
8%
Yes, but I'd be like a sleeper agent for the opposition, waiting for my chance to operate against the local tribe from the inside.
34
19%
Yes, survival is my ideology.
16
9%
No, it wouldn't be worth surviving with people I find ideologically poopy.
6
3%
Yes, and I would rise in power via my effectiveness and work to change the tribe.
28
15%
No, I would take on their whole tribe for my ideology, I don't care what the chances are.
14
8%
 
Total votes : 183

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:24 pm

Omakhandia wrote:I mean, if you really believe in communist collectives, you're definitely compromising some core beliefs no matter where you're from.


Why? I am a communist.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
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Luziland
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Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Luziland » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:40 pm

if it is just religion, of course i would do it. i don't have to actually believe whatever they believe, i just have to pretend that i am believing all their stuff and follow some weird, slightly inconvenient rules. of course it would get really annoying after some time, but i guess i won't have to do it forever. just long enough until i find a chance to get away and live elsewhere (unless it's a weird sect like jehovas witnesses, scientology, etc. who would probably try to reduce interaction with outsiders to the absolute minimum so that people will not be able to leave once they're in).

if it's some worse stuff, like maybe their ideology is that everyone who is not part of the tribe must be tortured and kept alive as long as possible and newcomers must participate in the torturing as some sort of initiation rite, i'd probably say "yeah, nah, i'm gonna leave now, see ya" and then i guess i should run as fast and as far as possible, before i become their next victim lol

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:11 am

Menassa wrote:There are things that I would rather die than do.

Idolatry.
Adultery
Murder

Mine would be:

Enslave another being
Rape
Be forced to bow down and worship a thing I do not believe in.
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:00 am

Asherahan wrote:
Menassa wrote:There are things that I would rather die than do.

Idolatry.
Adultery
Murder

Mine would be:

Enslave another being
Rape
Be forced to bow down and worship a thing I do not believe in.

So that's.

If someone told you to enslave another being you would rather die and likewise with rape?
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Vorpa
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Founded: Oct 29, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vorpa » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:30 am

"your ideology" uhhhhh

sometimes i have to profess ideology to fit in

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Bardarus
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Founded: Jun 25, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bardarus » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:04 am

Yagon wrote:
Bardarus wrote:Well i don't have an ideology and i don't count my Christian religion as a form of ideology but then again i don't know this 'other tribe' because the term is to vague, can you please give a clarification of this 'other tribe' but to answer the question then if the ideology does not include religion or abandoning my religion then no i would not join the other tribe, if the ideology does not concern religious beliefs then yes i would join the other tribe to increase my chances of survival.


In the scenario as presented it would involve changing to their religion (at least outwardly).

As a sub-branch, suppose their religion was Southwest American Protestant Evangelism (or something of that sort). Could you align with that?


well, i was baptized in an Armenian Apostolic Church, and i refuse to be re-batpized by other Christian denominations however, the Church of God whether it is American Protestant Evangelical, Roman Catholic or Eastern Byzantine Greek Orthodox is still the Church of God for me and i am an Ecumenist when it comes to uniting all versions of Christianity to reinstall unity of the Church so i guess that if this American Protestant Evangelist Church is the ONLY CHURCH within miles and miles then yes i accept it.
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Socialist Tera
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Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Tera » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:46 am

It would depend on the system but I would not compromise to the fascist or the capitalist or other right wing groups. I am willing to work with anarchists excluding an-caps and other communists except Trots.
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Herador
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Ex-Nation

Postby Herador » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:45 am

I'd compromise anything for as little as a pint.
They call him Suleiman The Magnificent and he killed 99% of the people he loved.
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Yagon
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Postby Yagon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:02 am

Luziland wrote:if it is just religion, of course i would do it. i don't have to actually believe whatever they believe, i just have to pretend that i am believing all their stuff and follow some weird, slightly inconvenient rules. of course it would get really annoying after some time, but i guess i won't have to do it forever. just long enough until i find a chance to get away and live elsewhere (unless it's a weird sect like jehovas witnesses, scientology, etc. who would probably try to reduce interaction with outsiders to the absolute minimum so that people will not be able to leave once they're in).

if it's some worse stuff, like maybe their ideology is that everyone who is not part of the tribe must be tortured and kept alive as long as possible and newcomers must participate in the torturing as some sort of initiation rite, i'd probably say "yeah, nah, i'm gonna leave now, see ya" and then i guess i should run as fast and as far as possible, before i become their next victim lol


What if it were not torture, but they intended to kill some local outgroup (say 300 people), and you were not expected to participate or even observe, but to just stay out of it. Could you do that?

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:49 am

Bardarus wrote:well, i was baptized in an Armenian Apostolic Church, and i refuse to be re-batpized by other Christian denominations however, the Church of God whether it is American Protestant Evangelical, Roman Catholic or Eastern Byzantine Greek Orthodox is still the Church of God for me and i am an Ecumenist when it comes to uniting all versions of Christianity to reinstall unity of the Church so i guess that if this American Protestant Evangelist Church is the ONLY CHURCH within miles and miles then yes i accept it.


Would you have a problem joining the Coptic Orthodox Church or any other branch of Oriental Orthodoxy?
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ-Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל), ṣạdiyq
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Luziland
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Founded: Jun 07, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Luziland » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:43 pm

Yagon wrote:
Luziland wrote:if it is just religion, of course i would do it. i don't have to actually believe whatever they believe, i just have to pretend that i am believing all their stuff and follow some weird, slightly inconvenient rules. of course it would get really annoying after some time, but i guess i won't have to do it forever. just long enough until i find a chance to get away and live elsewhere (unless it's a weird sect like jehovas witnesses, scientology, etc. who would probably try to reduce interaction with outsiders to the absolute minimum so that people will not be able to leave once they're in).

if it's some worse stuff, like maybe their ideology is that everyone who is not part of the tribe must be tortured and kept alive as long as possible and newcomers must participate in the torturing as some sort of initiation rite, i'd probably say "yeah, nah, i'm gonna leave now, see ya" and then i guess i should run as fast and as far as possible, before i become their next victim lol


What if it were not torture, but they intended to kill some local outgroup (say 300 people), and you were not expected to participate or even observe, but to just stay out of it. Could you do that?

not sure. partly i think "yes, as long as i don't have to help them with the killing in any way" but partly i think that maybe i will still have a very bad feeling afterwards and i might want to do something to prevent the killing. i guess i'd just have to be in that situation to know what i'd really do.

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Yagon
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Yagon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:47 pm

Luziland wrote:not sure. partly i think "yes, as long as i don't have to help them with the killing in any way" but partly i think that maybe i will still have a very bad feeling afterwards and i might want to do something to prevent the killing. i guess i'd just have to be in that situation to know what i'd really do.


Seems reasonable. It would be really tough to know without being in the situation, especially such a relatively extreme one.

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UniversalCommons
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Postby UniversalCommons » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:37 pm

There is another thing to to think about. A person puts a sword to your neck. They say that you have to profess a certain religion. You profess that you are that religion. They take away the sword. Everyone professes to the particularly religion or they die by the sword. No one actually practices the religion in question. You go to a meal where they eat forbidden meat, the man who was about to cut your head off gives you a shish kebab and a drink. A lot of professions about ideology are about control.

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Yagon
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Founded: May 27, 2017
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Postby Yagon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:44 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:There is another thing to to think about. A person puts a sword to your neck. They say that you have to profess a certain religion. You profess that you are that religion. They take away the sword. Everyone professes to the particularly religion or they die by the sword. No one actually practices the religion in question. You go to a meal where they eat forbidden meat, the man who was about to cut your head off gives you a shish kebab and a drink. A lot of professions about ideology are about control.


That makes sense, sort of a "show us that you understand we're in charge", and then the actual particulars of the faith aren't super adhered to.

Especially sometimes the things about mercy, forgiveness, charity, etc.

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Cetacea
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Cetacea » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Herador wrote:I'd compromise anything for as little as a pint.


are you popular at parties?

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Bardarus
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Founded: Jun 25, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bardarus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:48 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Bardarus wrote:well, i was baptized in an Armenian Apostolic Church, and i refuse to be re-batpized by other Christian denominations however, the Church of God whether it is American Protestant Evangelical, Roman Catholic or Eastern Byzantine Greek Orthodox is still the Church of God for me and i am an Ecumenist when it comes to uniting all versions of Christianity to reinstall unity of the Church so i guess that if this American Protestant Evangelist Church is the ONLY CHURCH within miles and miles then yes i accept it.


Would you have a problem joining the Coptic Orthodox Church or any other branch of Oriental Orthodoxy?


No, not really, they're all Christian Churches but in the Middle East like Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are Christian Churches in Europe.
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Herador
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Ex-Nation

Postby Herador » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:03 am

Cetacea wrote:
Herador wrote:I'd compromise anything for as little as a pint.


are you popular at parties?

You know it, baby

E: That's a lie, I sit quietly in the corner, drink to much, and listen to sad music until I pass out.
Last edited by Herador on Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
They call him Suleiman The Magnificent and he killed 99% of the people he loved.
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Albrenia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:41 am

Herador wrote:
Cetacea wrote:
are you popular at parties?

You know it, baby

E: That's a lie, I sit quietly in the corner, drink to much, and listen to sad music until I pass out.


Sounds like my kind of party, to be honest. Except I can't drink booze... but I do occasionally pass out so I still have that covered.

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The Snazzylands
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Snazzylands » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:59 am

Of course. I would live however they want me to until I'm able to move somewhere more hospitable. If I find the local culture particularly disgusting (human sacrifice, honor killings, talking too loud), I would at most try find a way to rally other "outsiders" like me to live and work together, and try to avoid dealing with the rest of the tribe as much as possible without getting us all rounded up and sacrificed en masse in a ritual to summon Shub-Niggurath.

Herador wrote:
Cetacea wrote:
are you popular at parties?

You know it, baby

E: That's a lie, I sit quietly in the corner, drink to much, and listen to sad music until I pass out.

Relatable.
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Chernoslavia
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Anarchy

Postby Chernoslavia » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:56 am

Endure adapt and overcome

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:32 am

Yes I would.

I can deal with compromising my ideology at the moment if it ensures me one more day to live and convince people my ideology is right.

I can't do that while dead.
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The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia
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Postby The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:07 am

Rather die a free man than live on my knees
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:17 am

The Grande Republic 0f Arcadia wrote:Rather die a free man than live on my knees

"You have it backwards. It is better to live on your feet than to die on your knees"
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Yagon
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Yagon » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:21 am

Chernoslavia wrote:Endure adapt and overcome


How does one endure?

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The Snazzylands
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Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Snazzylands » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 am

Yagon wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:Endure adapt and overcome


How does one endure?

Witness the barbaric customs of a tribe of warlike savages over and over for so long that you eventually become numb to the smell of rotting heads on pikes scattered around every encampment, or the mangled flesh and dead, broken look in the eyes of passing slaves, or the spine-tingling screams of sacrificial victims that fill the air nearly every night.
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