English: A Broken Language?

[Zeclil]

I guess, by massive coincidence, that NSG has read my mind; I was just thinking about this topic.

Or, if I wrote it how it would be pronounced.

I gess, by mass-ihv ko-insidense, that NSG has red my mind; I waz just thinking abowt this topik.

[Sanctissima]

English is filthy Germanic barbari speak, insufficiently blessed with the glorious Latin tongue. Granted, it has a certain rudimentary linguistic appeal in terms of versatility and ease of use, but it lacks the finer beauty of its Romance brethren, and is, to be quite frank, a very rough-sounding language. Basically latinized Swamp German.

Also, Shakespeare is highly overrated. The eternal bard my ass.

Wow, I thought he was dead, but you've been keeping him under your.... hat all this time?

I wish I understood this reference and could come up with a witty reply, but I don't.

English is filthy Germanic barbari speak, insufficiently blessed with the glorious Latin tongue. Granted, it has a certain rudimentary linguistic appeal in terms of versatility and ease of use, but it lacks the finer beauty of its Romance brethren, and is, to be quite frank, a very rough-sounding language. Basically latinized Swamp German.

Also, Shakespeare is highly overrated. The eternal bard my ass.

How dare you.

From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

[Katganistan]

Wow, I thought he was dead, but you've been keeping him under your.... hat all this time?

I wish I understood this reference and could come up with a witty reply, but I don't.

Well if the eternal bard is not somewhere south of your belt and north of your knees, perhaps you meant he was a donkey?

Or is this in fact another lovely thing about the language -- the richness of its insults and that the meaning is still perfectly intelligible?

[Risottia]

English is not a broken language because there are millions of people across the world -- 1,500 million, with only 375 million being native speakers -- who manage to learn the rules and use it effectively.

One million and a half manage to use English to some effect, maybe.
One million and a half manage to learn its rules, HA! Ha. No. There's plenty of native Anglophones who butcher systematically what is supposed to be their own - and quite often, their only - language. The same happens with every other language on the planet, but with English it's often worse, given its horrible writing system (alphabetic but quite non-phonemic), the frequency of misused loanwords and idioms, and the abundance of dialects combined with the lack of a central language academy.

[Sanctissima]

I wish I understood this reference and could come up with a witty reply, but I don't.

Well if the eternal bard is not somewhere south of your belt and north of your knees, perhaps you meant he was a donkey?

I really should have read more Shakespeare plays.

Taming of the Shrew?

[Pasong Tirad]

Wow, I thought he was dead, but you've been keeping him under your.... hat all this time?

I wish I understood this reference and could come up with a witty reply, but I don't.

How dare you.

From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

You mean the guy who's the second most translated English language author? Why, yes. just ignore the fact that lenin is on that list ok bye

[Sovaal]

Well if the eternal bard is not somewhere south of your belt and north of your knees, perhaps you meant he was a donkey?

I really should have read more Shakespeare plays.

Taming of the Shrew?

MacBeth is the one most engrained in my head.

Just hope the curse doesn't apply to head plays.

[Katganistan]

How dare you.

From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

Um. You've misunderstood. Antony's repetition that Brutus is an honorable man so what he says bout Caesar's ambition must be true, while simultaneously lists all the ways in which Caesar was NOT ambitious and served the people, is basically the equivalent of "yeah, right!"

He's saying Brutus is NOT honorable, and that he's lying about the reasons Caesar was killed.

[The Archregimancy]

Well, it may seem broken to some, but honestly, I'm sure that for generations, people have been saying the same goddamned thing about Chinese/French/Arabic/Latin/Greek/Aramaic/Akkadian/Sumerian/insert lingua-franca here.

Nam-ĝuruš anše kar-ra-gin7 ḫaš2-ĝa2 ba-e-taka4!

[Katganistan]

English is not a broken language because there are millions of people across the world -- 1,500 million, with only 375 million being native speakers -- who manage to learn the rules and use it effectively.

One million and a half manage to use English to some effect, maybe.
One million and a half manage to learn its rules, HA! Ha. No. There's plenty of native Anglophones who butcher systematically what is supposed to be their own - and quite often, their only - language. The same happens with every other language on the planet, but with English it's often worse, given its horrible writing system (alphabetic but quite non-phonemic), the frequency of misused loanwords and idioms, and the abundance of dialects combined with the lack of a central language academy.

Admit it. 'Weekend" is faster and means exactly the same as the French "le fin de semaine."

It's why they fought so hard so long to keep the French people from saying, "Le weekend."

[Pasong Tirad]

From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

Um. You've misunderstood. Antony's repetition that Brutus is an honorable man so what he says bout Caesar's ambition must be true, while simultaneously lists all the ways in which Caesar was NOT ambitious and served the people, is basically the equivalent of "yeah, right!"

He's saying Brutus is NOT honorable, and that he's lying about the reasons Caesar was killed.

BUT per their agreement, Mark Antony was not allowed to use this time to demean Brutus and the conspirators. So, while still honoring his agreement, he was able to get his way. It's just pure genius the way Shakespeare was able to write it down into Mark Antony's speech (which, from historical sources, was also supposed to be really good).

[Katganistan]

I really should have read more Shakespeare plays.

Taming of the Shrew?

MacBeth is the one most engrained in my head.

Just hope the curse doesn't apply to head plays.

It doesn't. It applies to actors mentioning the name of the play in a theater when not actually enacting before an audience.

Say it as much as you like, so long as you're not in a theater.

[The Blaatschapen]

Well, it may seem broken to some, but honestly, I'm sure that for generations, people have been saying the same goddamned thing about Chinese/French/Arabic/Latin/Greek/Aramaic/Akkadian/Sumerian/insert lingua-franca here.

Nam-/ĝuruš\ anše /kar\-ra-gin7 ḫaš2-ĝa2 ba-e-taka4!

Ugh, ancient leetspeak.

[Sovaal]

MacBeth is the one most engrained in my head.

Just hope the curse doesn't apply to head plays.

It doesn't. It applies to actors mentioning the name of the play in a theater when not actually enacting before an audience.

Say it as much as you like, so long as you're not in a theater.

Does a movie theatre count?

[Katganistan]

Um. You've misunderstood. Antony's repetition that Brutus is an honorable man so what he says bout Caesar's ambition must be true, while simultaneously lists all the ways in which Caesar was NOT ambitious and served the people, is basically the equivalent of "yeah, right!"

He's saying Brutus is NOT honorable, and that he's lying about the reasons Caesar was killed.

BUT per their agreement, Mark Antony was not allowed to use this time to demean Brutus and the conspirators. So, while still honoring his agreement, he was able to get his way. It's just pure genius the way Shakespeare was able to write it down into Mark Antony's speech (which, from historical sources, was also supposed to be really good).

Such is the beauty and nuance of the speech.

[Pasong Tirad]

It doesn't. It applies to actors mentioning the name of the play in a theater when not actually enacting before an audience.

Say it as much as you like, so long as you're not in a theater.

Does a movie theatre count?

Unless you're about to go up to the front of the theater and act, you're all good.

FUN FACT: Theater actors say "break a leg" before the show because it's supposed to be unlucky to wish them goodluck. At least, that's what we were told by our theater professors. Not sure if it's true (because a lot of us also kinda believe the urban legend that Heath Ledger died because he was far too deep into his Joker character).

[Risottia]

One million and a half manage to use English to some effect, maybe.
One million and a half manage to learn its rules, HA! Ha. No. There's plenty of native Anglophones who butcher systematically what is supposed to be their own - and quite often, their only - language. The same happens with every other language on the planet, but with English it's often worse, given its horrible writing system (alphabetic but quite non-phonemic), the frequency of misused loanwords and idioms, and the abundance of dialects combined with the lack of a central language academy.

Admit it. 'Weekend" is faster and means exactly the same as the French "le fin de semaine."

It's why they fought so hard so long to keep the French people from saying, "Le weekend."

The problem is that people who pronounce "weekend" as /wi'kõ/ would be counted as "speaking English". Well, they bloody aren't. Just like those native speakers who use "their" in stead of "there", or "your" in stead of "you're".

[The Archregimancy]

Nam-/ĝuruš\ anše /kar\-ra-gin7 ḫaš2-ĝa2 ba-e-taka4!

Ugh, ancient leetspeak.

I've just cleaned it up; the edited version removes the partially damaged text markers.

I kept the use of numerals as the transcription convention to replace transliterated diacritical marks, though.

[Katganistan]

It doesn't. It applies to actors mentioning the name of the play in a theater when not actually enacting before an audience.

Say it as much as you like, so long as you're not in a theater.

Does a movie theatre count?

Only if you really worry about superstitions and curses.

[Katganistan]

Does a movie theatre count?

Unless you're about to go up to the front of the theater and act, you're all good.

FUN FACT: Theater actors say "break a leg" before the show because it's supposed to be unlucky to wish them goodluck. At least, that's what we were told by our theater professors. Not sure if it's true (because a lot of us also kinda believe the urban legend that Heath Ledger died because he was far too deep into his Joker character).

It had far more to do with the drugs that he was taking than the character he was playing. Cesar Romero died nearly 30 years after his stint as The Joker, and Jack Nicholson, Mark Hamill, and Jared Leto are still with us.

[Sanctissima]

I wish I understood this reference and could come up with a witty reply, but I don't.



From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

You mean the guy who's the second most translated English language author? Why, yes. just ignore the fact that lenin is on that list ok bye

Eh, popularity has little to do with quality. Justin Bieber was pretty much considered the pinnacle of the music industry not too long ago. I doubt you'd agree that he's a particularly good singer.

I really should have read more Shakespeare plays.

Taming of the Shrew?

MacBeth is the one most engrained in my head.

Just hope the curse doesn't apply to head plays.

They say that any line from A Midsummer Night's Dream counteracts the curse. Or maybe it was spinning three times fast and swearing at a mirror. I forget which.

From the man who thought Brutus was a sympathetic character who dindu nothin' and killed Caesar because he actually believed in the Republic rather than him just being a jaded ass who wanted petty revenge whilst pursuing his own megalomaniacal goals. There's a reason why Dante put him in the lowest level of Hell.

Um. You've misunderstood. Antony's repetition that Brutus is an honorable man so what he says bout Caesar's ambition must be true, while simultaneously lists all the ways in which Caesar was NOT ambitious and served the people, is basically the equivalent of "yeah, right!"

He's saying Brutus is NOT honorable, and that he's lying about the reasons Caesar was killed.

Yes, but he also gives Brutus a sympathetic and honourable death, and paints him as being a sympathetic character who genuinely believed in the sic semper tyrannus schtick. Also, considering how Antony is portrayed in the later play of his and Cleopatra's namesakes, I'm not convinced he was trying to portray him in a particularly endearing light in the funeral oration instance.

[Sovaal]

Does a movie theatre count?

Only if you really worry about superstitions and curses.

Or enjoy pushing things to the limit as though exercises.

[Katganistan]

Admit it. 'Weekend" is faster and means exactly the same as the French "le fin de semaine."

It's why they fought so hard so long to keep the French people from saying, "Le weekend."

The problem is that people who pronounce "weekend" as /wi'kõ/ would be counted as "speaking English". Well, they bloody aren't. Just like those native speakers who use "their" in stead of "there", or "your" in stead of "you're".

Using a word or phrase of English in Italian isn't speaking English, any more than "Ciao Ciao for now!" makes an American an Italian speaker.

And the folks who misuse there, their and they're as well as too and to as native speakers are speaking English. Just badly.

[Risottia]

And the folks who misuse there, their and they're as well as too and to as native speakers are speaking English. Just badly.

That is, they use broken English. English most definitely isn't my favourite language, but watching it being turned into gibberish just fills me with an unbearable sadness.

[Pasong Tirad]

You mean the guy who's the second most translated English language author? Why, yes. just ignore the fact that lenin is on that list ok bye

Eh, popularity has little to do with quality. Justin Bieber was pretty much considered the pinnacle of the music industry not too long ago. I doubt you'd agree that he's a particularly good singer.

I would, actually. He's kind of a dick in person and his bars are wack, but he is a good singer. Not the point, though. Shakespeare's popularity had a lot to do with the universality of his plays. His plays will be staged until theater no longer exists (which should be any time now - at least, they've said it would be any time now since the day theater was invented, but eh).

Um. You've misunderstood. Antony's repetition that Brutus is an honorable man so what he says bout Caesar's ambition must be true, while simultaneously lists all the ways in which Caesar was NOT ambitious and served the people, is basically the equivalent of "yeah, right!"

He's saying Brutus is NOT honorable, and that he's lying about the reasons Caesar was killed.

Yes, but he also gives Brutus a sympathetic and honourable death, and paints him as being a sympathetic character who genuinely believed in the sic semper tyrannus schtick. Also, considering how Antony is portrayed in the later play of his and Cleopatra's namesakes, I'm not convinced he was trying to portray him in a particularly endearing light in the funeral oration instance.

Writers aren't supposed to judge their characters, especially writers of drama whose characters actually have to be performed by actual people, so there's that. How they were written vs. their historical counterparts is hardly the point, wouldn't you agree? They were written very well, and that is what matters.