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English: A Broken Language?

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Katganistan
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English: A Broken Language?

Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:33 am

This is the second time I have heard this assertion in a week.

PrayToShinji wrote:Ok, imagine correcting someone on english but not understanding that english is a broken language. Guys, I love commas, they make my world go round. Tell me why english isn't a broken language.


English is not a broken language because there are millions of people across the world -- 1,500 million, with only 375 million being native speakers -- who manage to learn the rules and use it effectively.

English is the language Shakespeare, Chaucer, J.K. Rowling, Ian Fleming, Chinua Achebe, and Charlotte Bronte wrote in -- writers who are very widely read even hundreds of years after their deaths, in some cases. The English of the King James version of the Bible is some of the most beautiful and lyrical -- shall we even say naughty -- language there is:

Cant.7
[1] How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince's daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman.
[2] Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
[3] Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.
[4] Thy neck is as a tower of ivory; thine eyes like the fishpools in Heshbon, by the gate of Bath-rabbim: thy nose is as the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.
[5] Thine head upon thee is like Carmel, and the hair of thine head like purple; the king is held in the galleries.
[6] How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights!
[7] This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
[8] I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples;
[9] And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak.
[10] I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me.
[11] Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field; let us lodge in the villages.
[12] Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves.
[13] The mandrakes give a smell, and at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits, new and old, which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved.
-- Song of Solomon

Those who call it broken while not capitalizing "english' as a proper noun, those who say they love commas and then abuse them with reckless abandon, those who intersperse their posts with 'lol's to fill the gaps in their arguments, those who do not understand that paragraphing is a simple enough prospect: that different ideas require new paragraphs.... yea, verily, I say unto you, that it is not English that is broken but your grasp of the rules of English.

However, despite the beauty of the language and its proliferation across the world over the centuries, it does possess a number of irregularities (as do other languages). Some cite its difficulty in learning the rules as its proof of being 'broken'; Mandarin with its tonality and pictograms might arguably be quite a bit more difficult, yet no one claims it is broken

What do you think? Is English a broken language? Why or why not?
Last edited by Katganistan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:04 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:09 pm

What I think?

Someone who has been posting shit threads all day (PrayToShinji, not you, Kat <3) does not deserve such a long post as a response.

Beyond that, yes, it is broken. A Dutchman with a grudge has said so :p

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:15 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:What I think?

Someone who has been posting shit threads all day (PrayToShinji, not you, Kat <3) does not deserve such a long post as a response.

Beyond that, yes, it is broken. A Dutchman with a grudge has said so :p

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos


Go stand in your tulip fields, you damn dirty Scotsman Dutchman!

English shall rule forever as the languages of trade and science!

(If there is any breakage, it is in the grammar, but what language is without problems.)
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Postby Valgora » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:18 pm

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Postby Destructive Government Economic System » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:19 pm

Those who say that English is broken do not realize that it is one of the easiest languages to learn.
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Postby Proctopeo » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:31 pm

The only thing I'd remotely call "broken" about English is the writing system, and that's less "broken" and more "it's not one-to-one enough and that bothers me".

Go away, C, Q, and X; you're superfluous.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:37 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:What I think?

Someone who has been posting shit threads all day (PrayToShinji, not you, Kat <3) does not deserve such a long post as a response.

Beyond that, yes, it is broken. A Dutchman with a grudge has said so :p

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos


Go stand in your tulip fields, you damn dirty Scotsman Dutchman!

English shall rule forever as the languages of trade and science!

(If there is any breakage, it is in the grammar, but what language is without problems.)


Funny, a language ruling forever is also what people thought about Greek and Latin.

It's a lingua franca, at this moment. In the western world. And interestingly enough, it came to that position after the second World War (before it was in a competition with German and French, in the western world) . And the language has some upstart rebels to thank for it. My friends tell me here that my accent is British-like, whole theirs are more influenced by American (and their native tongues)

Maybe we should start calling the language that. American.

And for every Shakespeare there's an Anna Bijns people don't know about. Don't confuse widespread popularity with quality(this goes for anything BTW, from English to Heineken) Not saying that good old William is bad, but he is hyped.
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:38 pm

I don't speak English. I speak brooklynese
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Postby Sovaal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:39 pm

Really, the only part even close to "broken" is the more archaic spellings, and most people remember them fine.

And how the hell can a language used for hundreds of years by millions of people be "broken"? Seems that they don't understand what language is supposed to do.
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:40 pm

Valgora wrote:



Only, she told him that she loved him. (but or except, she told him that she loved him)
She only told him that she loved him. (What's the issue? She told him she loved him.)
She told only him that she loved him.(He was the sole person she told about her love for him)
She told him only that she loved him. (Nothing else; just that she loved him.)
She told him that only she loved him. (She asserts she is the sole person who loves him.)
She told him that she only loved him. (Rather pathetically, with big puppy eyes.)
She told him that she loved only him. (She loves nothing and nobody but him.)
She told him that she loved him, only. (You're the only one I love.)
Last edited by Katganistan on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Sovaal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:43 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Go stand in your tulip fields, you damn dirty Scotsman Dutchman!

English shall rule forever as the languages of trade and science!

(If there is any breakage, it is in the grammar, but what language is without problems.)


Funny, a language ruling forever is also what people thought about Greek and Latin.

It's a lingua franca, at this moment. In the western world. And interestingly enough, it came to that position after the second World War (before it was in a competition with German and French, in the western world) . And the language has some upstart rebels to thank for it. My friends tell me here that my accent is British-like, whole theirs are more influenced by American (and their native tongues)

Maybe we should start calling the language that. American.

And for every Shakespeare there's an Anna Bijns people don't know about. Don't confuse widespread popularity with quality(this goes for anything BTW, from English to Heineken) Not saying that good old William is bad, but he is hyped.

I think we get called ignorant Americans enough. Let's not.

And does that mean we should call Portuguese "Brazilian"? And what about Soanish, in a few decades the US will become the largest Spanish peaking country. Can't have two "American" languages. :p
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Postby Pasong Tirad » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:44 pm

Maybe we first need to define what we mean when we say broken. Broken how? I can easily argue that English is incomplete, but then again every single language is incomplete because it doesn't fully capture the thought-processes of all the world's peoples.

i.e., Taglish, the way Filipinos speak our native language and then intersperse our sentences with English words, is more complete because it contains more words and contains two thought processes (Tagalog and English) in it.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:45 pm

Sovaal wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Funny, a language ruling forever is also what people thought about Greek and Latin.

It's a lingua franca, at this moment. In the western world. And interestingly enough, it came to that position after the second World War (before it was in a competition with German and French, in the western world) . And the language has some upstart rebels to thank for it. My friends tell me here that my accent is British-like, whole theirs are more influenced by American (and their native tongues)

Maybe we should start calling the language that. American.

And for every Shakespeare there's an Anna Bijns people don't know about. Don't confuse widespread popularity with quality(this goes for anything BTW, from English to Heineken) Not saying that good old William is bad, but he is hyped.

I think we get called ignorant Americans enough. Let's not.

And does that mean we should call Portuguese "Brazilian"? And what about Soanish, in a few decades the US will become the largest Spanish peaking country. Can't have two "American" languages. :p


The other language will be called Estados.
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:46 pm

Destructive Government Economic System wrote:Those who say that English is broken do not realize that it is one of the easiest languages to learn.


Perhaps because they do not care enough to learn it properly? And I don't mean dialects -- there are regional dialects as well as the massive split between British English and American English. (Even I know that if I knock up Mr. Holmes and ask him for a rubber so I can correct (rather than prevent) a mistake -- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SEX. ;))

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:47 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Destructive Government Economic System wrote:Those who say that English is broken do not realize that it is one of the easiest languages to learn.


Perhaps because they do not care enough to learn it properly? And I don't mean dialects -- there are regional dialects as well as the massive split between British English and American English. (Even I know that if I knock up Mr. Holmes and ask him for a rubber so I can correct (rather than prevent) a mistake -- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SEX. ;))


Time to bum a fag. Do you have a lighter too?
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:47 pm

Proctopeo wrote:The only thing I'd remotely call "broken" about English is the writing system, and that's less "broken" and more "it's not one-to-one enough and that bothers me".

Go away, C, Q, and X; you're superfluous.


We already sent home a goodly number of Us. No need to honour your neighbour's armour colour.

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Postby Sovaal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:47 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Sovaal wrote:I think we get called ignorant Americans enough. Let's not.

And does that mean we should call Portuguese "Brazilian"? And what about Soanish, in a few decades the US will become the largest Spanish peaking country. Can't have two "American" languages. :p


The other language will be called Estados.

*Tranlsated from Spanish Estados*

"What language do you speak?"

"State(sian)"
Last edited by Sovaal on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Postby Sovaal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:49 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
Perhaps because they do not care enough to learn it properly? And I don't mean dialects -- there are regional dialects as well as the massive split between British English and American English. (Even I know that if I knock up Mr. Holmes and ask him for a rubber so I can correct (rather than prevent) a mistake -- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SEX. ;))


Time to bum a fag. Do you have a lighter too?

Left it in the loo, sorry.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:49 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:The only thing I'd remotely call "broken" about English is the writing system, and that's less "broken" and more "it's not one-to-one enough and that bothers me".

Go away, C, Q, and X; you're superfluous.


We already sent home a goodly number of Us. No need to honour your neighbour's armour colour.


No u!
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:49 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:I don't speak English. I speak brooklynese

Clearly the most superior variant of American English.

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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:50 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
We already sent home a goodly number of Us. No need to honour your neighbour's armour colour.


No u!

No, yo.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Postby Kyoki Chudoku » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:51 pm

English has a lot of things that don't seem to make sense in it.

But it's not broken. Why? If it were we wouldn't be able to use it would we? And yet it's the third most common language on the planet (admittedly, it was spread mainly through colonisation and conquest, but so were most languages).

A lot of the weird spellings make sense if you consider how proper actually used to pronounce them as they were spelt but gradually changed without the spelling doing so as well.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:52 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:I don't speak English. I speak brooklynese


Breukelen, the original Brooklyn, is a lovely village. Cycling along the river Vecht in spring, I can recommend it. Good memories :)
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Proctopeo
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Postby Proctopeo » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:52 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:The only thing I'd remotely call "broken" about English is the writing system, and that's less "broken" and more "it's not one-to-one enough and that bothers me".

Go away, C, Q, and X; you're superfluous.


We already sent home a goodly number of Us. No need to honour your neighbour's armour colour.

And American English is better for it.
Might as well cleave off some extra letters and make the spelling less archaic while we're there.
Don't want to become like the Tibetan script, you know.
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:52 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
Perhaps because they do not care enough to learn it properly? And I don't mean dialects -- there are regional dialects as well as the massive split between British English and American English. (Even I know that if I knock up Mr. Holmes and ask him for a rubber so I can correct (rather than prevent) a mistake -- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SEX. ;))


Time to bum a fag. Do you have a lighter too?

I'll share, if you don't Bogart it.

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