Japan Votes 2017

[Shrillland]

how is wanting to help your allies in wartime nationalist?

When you've got 50k US military personnel hanging around your country, I question why you would need a military for a reason other than nationalism

That's also true. Abe would just say that the US will need all the help it can get, but the truth is that if we can keep China out of any potential conflict, Japan won't really be needed. I'm sorry that I keep going back to the NK issue, but that's one of the core reasons that Abe called this vote.

[Collatis]

When you've got 50k US military personnel hanging around your country, I question why you would need a military for a reason other than nationalism

the Democrats also want to kick the US personnel as well as destroy Japan's military, and also, China could eventually eclipse US Navy

No, they don't. In fact, the leader of the Democrats supports Abe's effort to destroy Article 9. I gotta question where you're getting your information...

[Collatis]

When you've got 50k US military personnel hanging around your country, I question why you would need a military for a reason other than nationalism

That's also true. Abe would just say that the US will need all the help it can get, but the truth is that if we can keep China out of any potential conflict, Japan won't really be needed. I'm sorry that I keep going back to the NK issue, but that's one of the core reasons that Abe called this vote.

Well the North Korea issue is likely to dominate the election, so it only makes sense that it would get a lot of attention.

[The of Japan]

the Democrats also want to kick the US personnel as well as destroy Japan's military, and also, China could eventually eclipse US Navy

No, they don't. In fact, the leader of the Democrats supports Abe's effort to destroy Article 9. I gotta question where you're getting your information...

back at page 3 of this very topic.

[The of Japan]

the Democrats also want to kick the US personnel as well as destroy Japan's military, and also, China could eventually eclipse US Navy

No, they don't. In fact, the leader of the Democrats supports Abe's effort to destroy Article 9. I gotta question where you're getting your information...

article 9 isn't needed.

[Shrillland]

No, they don't. In fact, the leader of the Democrats supports Abe's effort to destroy Article 9. I gotta question where you're getting your information...

back at page 3 of this very topic.

That was discussing what the Communists want, not the Democrats.

[Collatis]

No, they don't. In fact, the leader of the Democrats supports Abe's effort to destroy Article 9. I gotta question where you're getting your information...

back at page 3 of this very topic.

Are you confusing the Democrats and the Communists? Because the Communists do support removing US military bases. The Democrats don't.

The Maehara-Wakasa tie-up, if realized, will point to the advent of a fresh force against Abe. But at the same time, the new DP leader’s conservative ideology may in fact expedite Abe’s efforts to achieve his lifelong goal: revising the pacifist Constitution.

“Both Maehara and Koike support the idea of amending the Constitution. So that means even if the new joint force poses a threat to the LDP in a next Lower House election, it doesn’t necessarily put the kibosh on Abe’s plan to change the charter. It could even encourage it,” Kawakami said.

Maehara is a security hawk who is in his eighth term as a Lower House lawmaker. He favors closer ties with the United States as well as a more robust defense policy.

[The of Japan]

back at page 3 of this very topic.

Are you confusing the Democrats and the Communists? Because the Communists do support removing US military bases. The Democrats don't.

The Maehara-Wakasa tie-up, if realized, will point to the advent of a fresh force against Abe. But at the same time, the new DP leader’s conservative ideology may in fact expedite Abe’s efforts to achieve his lifelong goal: revising the pacifist Constitution.

“Both Maehara and Koike support the idea of amending the Constitution. So that means even if the new joint force poses a threat to the LDP in a next Lower House election, it doesn’t necessarily put the kibosh on Abe’s plan to change the charter. It could even encourage it,” Kawakami said.

Maehara is a security hawk who is in his eighth term as a Lower House lawmaker. He favors closer ties with the United States as well as a more robust defense policy.

oops, I guess

[Collatis]

oops, I guess

[Saiwania]

It's also a bad idea because the nations that Japan committed the most heinous crimes against are the nations that it needs to be friendly with to put a stop to North Korean aggression, particularly China and South Korea. Given what happened to the two nations, you can understand why visiting the shrine is something of a problem, especially now.

With the exception of China, those countries are going to play ball because North Korea is a threat to them to enough of an extent, regardless of what people in Japan do. Among my wish list is a full international embargo on China by all of the developed nations, a precondition for lifting it should be for China to actually abandon all current and future support for North Korea.

China should be shamed and be forced to choose between continuing to be a world economic power or having all trade dry up. As if many developing nations will have populations which can afford what China produces. I think enough pain could coerce China into finally choosing a side, but it obviously can't be done if only the US decides to not purchase Chinese products anymore.

[Bakery Hill]

JCP all the way fam.

[The Halakha]

Having lived in Japan, I would rather keep it on the right. Fuck welfare. Japan's excellence is due to its "shitty" work culture.

[MERIZoC]

Having lived in Japan, I would rather keep it on the right. Fuck welfare. Japan's excellence is due to its "shitty" work culture.

Suicide forests—actually good?

[Trumptonium]

Because why? For the sake of it?

Japan is not a closed country and gets plenty of immigrants, just about a low enough number to integrate them.

Oh boy, here we go again.

if you want to destroy a country why don't you do it to your own

[Ostroeuropa]

I support the constitutional ammendment, and it'd probably get my vote to go to Abe and the LDP. In other circumstances, communism plz.

Japan with a military would be another liberal democracy with an armed force, and would help shift the balance of power in the world towards liberal democracies.

[Kennlind]

Because why? For the sake of it?

Japan is not a closed country and gets plenty of immigrants, just about a low enough number to integrate them.

Oh boy, here we go again.

Theres no reason to open the borders. Dont take any migrants in until we fix our own problems.

[Parti Ouvrier]

I don't need to know about Japanese politics to know that voting for communists is a bad idea. Soviet Japanese Union doesn't appeal to meh

However perhaps comrade Merizoc can enlighten is why.repeating the USSR, Venezuela, Cuba or North Korea is a good idea?

All four of those countries utilize(d) quite different systems and produced quite different results, and JCP is still different from all of them. They're democratic, progressive, and pacifist. They aren't attached to Shinto cults or beholden to American interests.

They're more like left-reformist social-democrats.

[Sanctissima]

Oh I think I'm going to enjoy this...

*cracks knuckles*

Let's get this party started.

Because they have communist in their name? The LDP has Liberal in theirs and they so aren't.

Because any party that still even tacitly pays lip service to an ideology that's resulted in hundreds of millions of deaths in the past century alone, without having produced a single successful state, is not to be trusted.

And even if they are somehow different in any sense from other parties of their ilk, their proposed economic policies (although "policy" is a strong word considering how they're too economically illiterate to churn out anything that isn't extremely vague and unintelligible) leave a lot to be desired and are indicative of how horrendously they'd mismanage the Japanese economy if they ever got in power.

Amazingly enough, they believe in peace. WHAT A CONCEPT!

Whether that is wise or not is another story. It still would actually follow the letter and the spirit of Article 9.

Oh don't give me that shit.

I imagine there's plenty of articles in the Japanese constitution that you disagree with and would like to see changed or removed altogether. This "but they believe in the constitution" mantra is rubbish. They believe in the parts of the constitution that reflect the beliefs they already hold. They give zero shits about the rest.

And either way, even if you're a pacifist, you must recognize that Article 9 was specifically instituted to keep Japan declawed and weak. Why support something that was specifically designed to turn your country into America's bitch? I mean, being the geopolitical equivalent of a yandere waifu must be fun and all, but is this really the state of affairs you want for Japan in the long-run?

You... What? Seriously?

No. No, no it isn't. Yasukuni was opened in the late 1800's. My local shrine is older than Yasukuni by a good 2 hundred years IIRC. It was 'intertwined into Japanese culture' by State Shintoism. It as forced as a place for this. Most Modern Japanese actually would like it better if there was a non-denominational memorial to the war dead.

Hey now, it's not my fault if practically every monument in Japan is centuries old.

I'm from Eastern Canada. The oldest things we have here are from the 1700's. Hell, the first permanent European settlements didn't even prop up here until the mid-1600's. By comparison, at least for me, monuments like Yasukuni Shrine are old.

You mean the party has evolved to the point where it has started to represent the views of many Japanese and instead of advocating a violent overthrow, has put out policies designed to address the inequality that exists over here?

Yes, very fucking scary. Very.

Congrats, they've gone from wanting to kill practically everyone who isn't dirt-poor in a violent revolution to wanting to gradually destroy the country from within à la British Labour Party. Only difference is that the Labourites are at least somewhat economically literate.

They would be akin to Focus on the Family or the Moral Majority, neither of them are cults. I.e. They want to force their religious views on people. Now, there might be an argument that given how far outside State Shintoism was from mainstream Shintoism that you could call that a cult, but given its past status, that would be hard to qualify.

Nor do all Shinto cults run around here causing terrorism. Most just approach you in parks and ask for donations.

Eh, you Japanese have a very different view of what constitutes a cult, so I'll mark this particular point up to a cultural difference and leave it at that.

I don't know nearly enough about the specifics of Shintoist cults to argue otherwise.

[Kennlind]

You should include Yuriko Koike's new party, Kibo no To (Party of Hope), in the poll. Chances are they'll out poll the Democrats by a good margin. Just goes to show how ridiculously disorganized the Japanese opposition is.

I'd probably support the Democratic Party, mainly due to the lack of any good choices, but they're incompetent and are barely distinguishable from Abe's Liberal Democrats at this point. I might consider supporting Koike's party if it looks like they actually might have a shot at winning, but that's unlikely.

Yeah if they're running alongside the Democrats it splits the FPTP vote even more for the LDP.
However the polls show that the LDP are the only party with consistent support. They were at 41 in late August while the Democratic Party was 3rd with just 7%, second was undecided. A lot of room for Koike.

[Shrillland]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Theres no reason to open the borders. Dont take any migrants in until we fix our own problems.

Japan barely takes in migrants now, and they don't have a lot of the same issues that the US does, their issues are the demographics crisis and the future of the Imperial family. They could do with a few extra people coming in and contributing.

[NERVUN]

Oh boy, here we go again.

if you want to destroy a country why don't you do it to your own

You tell this to the guy who has permanent residency in Japan and has lived here for 13 years?

See, that's the difference. I actually live here as an immigrant. I know what I'm speaking about as opposed to this Alt-right fantasy about Japan that has somehow become popular.

[The Dragon Realms Empire]

if you want to destroy a country why don't you do it to your own

You tell this to the guy who has permanent residency in Japan and has lived here for 13 years?

See, that's the difference. I actually live here as an immigrant. I know what I'm speaking about as opposed to this Alt-right fantasy about Japan that has somehow become popular.

What does the Alt Right actually think about Japan? The fact that it is a paradise due to little immigration?

[NERVUN]

Oh I think I'm going to enjoy this...

*cracks knuckles*

Let's get this party started.

Because they have communist in their name? The LDP has Liberal in theirs and they so aren't.

Because any party that still even tacitly pays lip service to an ideology that's resulted in hundreds of millions of deaths in the past century alone, without having produced a single successful state, is not to be trusted.

Er, right.

And even if they are somehow different in any sense from other parties of their ilk, their proposed economic policies (although "policy" is a strong word considering how they're too economically illiterate to churn out anything that isn't extremely vague and unintelligible) leave a lot to be desired and are indicative of how horrendously they'd mismanage the Japanese economy if they ever got in power.

Have you read the LDP's version? Abenomics is the three arrows. The third has been so vague as to be meaningless. You're pretty much castigating this party for doing what every other party in Japan does.

Amazingly enough, they believe in peace. WHAT A CONCEPT!

Whether that is wise or not is another story. It still would actually follow the letter and the spirit of Article 9.

Oh don't give me that shit.

I imagine there's plenty of articles in the Japanese constitution that you disagree with and would like to see changed or removed altogether. This "but they believe in the constitution" mantra is rubbish. They believe in the parts of the constitution that reflect the beliefs they already hold. They give zero shits about the rest.

And your sauce for this is... what now? In any case, the difference is that the JCP is upfront with what it wants to do and it... wants to follow the amendment process.

Abe on other hand has broken the amendment process.

And either way, even if you're a pacifist, you must recognize that Article 9 was specifically instituted to keep Japan declawed and weak. Why support something that was specifically designed to turn your country into America's bitch? I mean, being the geopolitical equivalent of a yandere waifu must be fun and all, but is this really the state of affairs you want for Japan in the long-run?

I know what the point of Article 9 is. What you do NOT seem to understand is that while what the US wanted was a declawed Japan (Which the US then proceeded to violate before the ink was dry), the Japanese population as a whole has embraced the spirit of Article 9, sincerely desiring peace. At this point, even with missiles being shot over our heads by Kimmy, the Japanese population is STILL against changing or removing Article 9.

You... What? Seriously?

No. No, no it isn't. Yasukuni was opened in the late 1800's. My local shrine is older than Yasukuni by a good 2 hundred years IIRC. It was 'intertwined into Japanese culture' by State Shintoism. It as forced as a place for this. Most Modern Japanese actually would like it better if there was a non-denominational memorial to the war dead.

Hey now, it's not my fault if practically every monument in Japan is centuries old.

I'm from Eastern Canada. The oldest things we have here are from the 1700's. Hell, the first permanent European settlements didn't even prop up here until the mid-1600's. By comparison, at least for me, monuments like Yasukuni Shrine are old.

Ok, I admit you got me there. I go visit the castle in my city and it's 400 years old. And that's casually tossed out as if my nation isn't less than 300.

Still, the point being is that Yasukuni wasn't around for the bulk of Japanese history and the reason it got where it is now is simply due to pushes by the militarists during Meiji and definitely during early Showa.

You mean the party has evolved to the point where it has started to represent the views of many Japanese and instead of advocating a violent overthrow, has put out policies designed to address the inequality that exists over here?

Yes, very fucking scary. Very.

Congrats, they've gone from wanting to kill practically everyone who isn't dirt-poor in a violent revolution to wanting to gradually destroy the country from within à la British Labour Party. Only difference is that the Labourites are at least somewhat economically literate.

Oddly enough, parties evolve. It really does seem to be that you're upset about the name more than anything. The Dems used to advocate for segregation and racial superiority. But the Dems of old are not the same as the Democratic Party now.

They would be akin to Focus on the Family or the Moral Majority, neither of them are cults. I.e. They want to force their religious views on people. Now, there might be an argument that given how far outside State Shintoism was from mainstream Shintoism that you could call that a cult, but given its past status, that would be hard to qualify.

Nor do all Shinto cults run around here causing terrorism. Most just approach you in parks and ask for donations.

Eh, you Japanese have a very different view of what constitutes a cult, so I'll mark this particular point up to a cultural difference and leave it at that.

I don't know nearly enough about the specifics of Shintoist cults to argue otherwise.

It's a political advocacy group. Not a religious group. That's why.

And for the record, I may be turning Japanese (I really think so), and I have been here 13 years, and yes, my wife STILL claims I stole my passport, but I am still an American.

[NERVUN]

You tell this to the guy who has permanent residency in Japan and has lived here for 13 years?

See, that's the difference. I actually live here as an immigrant. I know what I'm speaking about as opposed to this Alt-right fantasy about Japan that has somehow become popular.

What does the Alt Right actually think about Japan? The fact that it is a paradise due to little immigration?

Seems to be. As of late I've seen a LOT of threads talking about immigration and multiculturalism in which our alt-right or right'ish players hold up Japan as a model for the rest of the world (Usually Europe or the US) as people defending their culture from the evil immigrant, or forbidding immigration, or whatever.

I find it very humorous as an immigrant living in Japan.

[Genivaria]

What does the Alt Right actually think about Japan? The fact that it is a paradise due to little immigration?

Seems to be. As of late I've seen a LOT of threads talking about immigration and multiculturalism in which our alt-right or right'ish players hold up Japan as a model for the rest of the world (Usually Europe or the US) as people defending their culture from the evil immigrant, or forbidding immigration, or whatever.

I find it very humorous as an immigrant living in Japan.

Racist ideologies are not known for their wisdom.