A word on Hate...

[Old Tyrannia]

Right-wingers do not have a monopoly on hate, nor are all right-wingers hateful people. I am not a hateful person. I might joke from time to time about how much I hate all of humanity, but in reality there are fairly few people in the world that I genuinely hate. I have always tried to be civil when discussing things with people on the other side of the fence, something that is often difficult when views on both sides are very strongly held and when the opposite side of the debate are being less than civil themselves.

I think that the OP is blinded by their own ideological preferences to the hatred and bitterness that exists on their side of the spectrum. In truth, the discourse from the political right in recent years has been increasingly bitter, petty and vindictive, to the point that I feel somewhat embarrassed to be associated with it; and yet I don't see anything better when I peep over the fence at the left-wing side of the equation. Leftists do seem to me to carry the notion that they are the "nice," "compassionate" and "reasonable" side of politics in the contemporary Western world, but that's just not true. They just direct their hatred at different targets- those who they perceive as "privileged", those who subscribe to traditional ideals and lifestyles, those who they view as insufficiently supportive of their progressive or revolutionary "cause" and so forth.

On the whole, I'd say that NationStates General is one of the better places on the internet for expressing views in a reasonable and civil way. By the not particularly high standards of the internet, this is a friendly and welcoming place. Those who say otherwise are often the ones least capable of tolerating and dealing with people who have opposing worldviews at all.

[Kvatchdom]

No it's not. Not a single one of the major European attacks have been done by a woman in a Burka. Ban funding from outside of Europe, a much better fix that isn't supressing an entire population's faith.

just because one hasn't carried one out yet, doesn't mean they havent tried to
It IS a security threat when people's faces are covered up so no one can tell who it is.

Your source does not mention a burka. I doubt women who are devoted enough to submit to a burka will take the patriarch's mantle on violence in a terrorist family.

[The Feylands]

Even if he is, is he wrong? I never once heard anything to do with disabled people or lgbt people during the Brexit campaign.

Not to mention that there are loads of leftists all across Europe who are Eurosceptics as well. It's more of an issue about forcing people into a system built on a political culture and mentality from continental western Europe that's quite different from us here in the north, or those to the east etc.

[Greater Cesnica]

Right-wingers do not have a monopoly on hate, nor are all right-wingers hateful people. I am not a hateful person. I might joke from time to time about how much I hate all of humanity, but in reality there are fairly few people in the world that I genuinely hate. I have always tried to be civil when discussing things with people on the other side of the fence, something that is often difficult when views on both sides are very strongly held and when the opposite side of the debate are being less than civil themselves.

I think that the OP is blinded by their own ideological preferences to the hatred and bitterness that exists on their side of the spectrum. In truth, the discourse from the political right in recent years has been increasingly bitter, petty and vindictive, to the point that I feel somewhat embarrassed to be associated with it; and yet I don't see anything better when I peep over the fence at the left-wing side of the equation. Leftists do seem to me to carry the notion that they are the "nice," "compassionate" and "reasonable" side of politics in the contemporary Western world, but that's just not true. They just direct their hatred at different targets- those who they perceive as "privileged", those who subscribe to traditional ideals and lifestyles, those who they view as insufficiently supportive of their progressive or revolutionary "cause" and so forth.

On the whole, I'd say that NationStates General is one of the better places on the internet for expressing views in a reasonable and civil way. By the not particularly high standards of the internet, this is a friendly and welcoming place. Those who say otherwise are often the ones least capable of tolerating and dealing with people who have opposing worldviews at all.

A very good point indeed. Also, I just want to put this out there right now, if you feel offended on Nationstates, say hello to 4chan.

[West Phoenicia]

Now if people wanna see some hate to the LGBT of Uk especially in relation to Transgender women take a look at Ultra feminist left wing Germaine Greer and her supporters of her version of feminism and see how they slam Transgender woman and there right to be included as woman.

[Kvatchdom]

Now if people wanna see some hate to the LGBT of Uk especially in relation to Transgender women take a look at Ultra feminist left wing Germaine Greer and her supporters of her version of feminism and see how they slam Transgender woman and there right to be included as woman.

Intersectional(/modern?) feminists don't really see terfs as allies I'd say.

[Old Varegia]

No it's not. Not a single one of the major European attacks have been done by a woman in a Burka. Ban funding from outside of Europe, a much better fix that isn't supressing an entire population's faith.

No they're not, the people calling for them cite Secularism, not security, when it is the opposite of secularism to meddle in religious affairs. Those have been discussed aswell, especially the Mosques.

I know security concerns are one of the reasons and it's perfectly understandable. When you have an enemy, you must be wary of those who share things in common with them. It doesn't matter if no terrorist attacks have been committed by burqa wearers. The burqa presents a very clear opportunity for any would-be terrorists. You don't even have to be a woman, either, because nobody would even know unless they closely inspected you.

Say, for example, your name is John and you're a white American Christian man. I've never heard of any airport terrorist attack committed by a white American Christian man named John, but you still have to go through airport security. When it comes to potential massacres, you don't take chances. It really doesn't matter at all if nobody wearing a burqa has ever committed a terrorist act (such a claim is dubious anyway), you'll still want to deprive the enemy of opportunities to strike.

You don't seem to have seen this, Kvatch.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Not to mention that there are loads of leftists all across Europe who are Eurosceptics as well.

Particularly, Tariq Ali (a man I greatly admire).

[Ifreann]

...my sexy post count of 8,000 was tragically nuked with the loss of the Jolt Forums, so I have no archive to search for evidence...

Au contraire.

[Krasny-Volny]

But their mere presence on the site - and their audacity to present and discuss their own ideas and opinions - is considered repugnant to those who think said ideas/concepts are evil.

This goes especially for people who espouse various authoritarian forms of right-wing ideologies, namely fascism or something theocratic like Christian nationalism.

It doesn't matter if their opinions are presented in a civil manner. The very fact that they're being presented at all is, like I said, unacceptable to a specific vocal minority that would have it otherwise.

That sounds like a thing you can source.

I was referring specifically to those who left the site or heavily cut back their participation when more right wingers (and especially "alt-righters") started posting here, especially after the November elections in the US. They just couldn't handle the volume of different opinions expressed by the new influx of people.

You've been here at least as long as I have, you know who they are.

[The Feylands]

But at the ripe old fossil fuel age of 32, I can say with experience that embracing all-consuming hate is a pretty crappy rabbit hole to dig into. In the meantime, I certainly quit hating on the LGBT, and I especially quit hating on abortion..

But, as a bisexual who still clings on to his free love freedom ideologies from 10 years ago, and I certainly try not to hate on people anymore, and while I certainly hope some NSG'ers rethink their embracement of hate, it's pretty damn hard to like a political party whose only purpose in life is to have me dead.

Like babies barbarically murdered in their mother's womb you mean?

Having a gay person around certainly wasn't a problem for the Republican party or even the 'alt-right' during Milo Yiannopoulos' career. I wouldn't be surprised if you found out many right-wingers would treat you more like anyone else than left-wingers done, who might see treating you in a special way because your sexuality as a pathway to 'salvation' and the 'second coming' of global egalitarian Utopia etc.

Dismissing people with certain opinions as 'hateful' is certianly just as an effective method of bullying and dehumanizing somebody than saying that they're 'evil', 'ugly, 'stupid' or whatever. It really destroys any sensible discussion, and by extension democracy. And I really don't get what being pro-life has got to do with one's sexuality... these people seem to agree.

[Vassenor]

With all due respect, the Brexit and Trump gave hate groups the confidence they needed to push their anti-Muslim, anti-LGBT, anti-disabled agenda, and without an "all hands on deck" response to counter that threat, the hate groups can be very effective. Vassenor, can you back me up on this?

With all due respect Brexit had nothing to do with pushing an anto LGBT agenda. Half my family lives in England. My uncle is gay and he voted to exit the EU as did many other members of the LGBT community. You may want to look to other forums to see Brexit has nothing to do with anti LGBT supposed vinification. Please show a correct and accurate source that says that due to Brexi gays and lesbians are now in fear of their lives in the UK. Just 1 source is all i ask.

That issue waa not on the radar. At all. Brexit also had nothing to do with an anti disabled agenda either.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/07/08/anti-lgbt-christian-activists-already-calling-for-equality-to-be-rolled-back-after-brexit/

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/11/27/politicians-warned-brexit-rhetoric-has-legitimised-hatred-and-homophobia/

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/10/09/homophobic-attacks-rose-147-in-the-uk-following-brexit-vote/

[Kennlind]

With all due respect Brexit had nothing to do with pushing an anto LGBT agenda. Half my family lives in England. My uncle is gay and he voted to exit the EU as did many other members of the LGBT community. You may want to look to other forums to see Brexit has nothing to do with anti LGBT supposed vinification. Please show a correct and accurate source that says that due to Brexi gays and lesbians are now in fear of their lives in the UK. Just 1 source is all i ask.

That issue waa not on the radar. At all. Brexit also had nothing to do with an anti disabled agenda either.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/07/08/anti-lgbt-christian-activists-already-calling-for-equality-to-be-rolled-back-after-brexit/

Brexit wasn't their motive, it was the resignation of Cameron, a liberal, with two of the leadership candidates strong conservatives.

[Minoa]

With all due respect, the Brexit and Trump gave hate groups the confidence they needed to push their anti-Muslim, anti-LGBT, anti-disabled agenda, and without an "all hands on deck" response to counter that threat, the hate groups can be very effective. Vassenor, can you back me up on this?

With all due respect Brexit had nothing to do with pushing an anto LGBT agenda. Half my family lives in England. My uncle is gay and he voted to exit the EU as did many other members of the LGBT community. You may want to look to other forums to see Brexit has nothing to do with anti LGBT supposed vinification. Please show a correct and accurate source that says that due to Brexi gays and lesbians are now in fear of their lives in the UK. Just 1 source is all i ask.

That issue waa not on the radar. At all. Brexit also had nothing to do with an anti disabled agenda either.

Sources: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 19111.html and http://disabilityunited.co.uk/2017/02/n ... rexit-era/

[Great Tawil]

But at the ripe old fossil fuel age of 32, I can say with experience that embracing all-consuming hate is a pretty crappy rabbit hole to dig into. In the meantime, I certainly quit hating on the LGBT, and I especially quit hating on abortion..

But, as a bisexual who still clings on to his free love freedom ideologies from 10 years ago, and I certainly try not to hate on people anymore, and while I certainly hope some NSG'ers rethink their embracement of hate, it's pretty damn hard to like a political party whose only purpose in life is to have me dead.

Like babies barbarically murdered in their mother's womb you mean?

Having a gay person around certainly wasn't a problem for the Republican party or even the 'alt-right' during Milo Yiannopoulos' career. I wouldn't be surprised if you found out many right-wingers would treat you more like anyone else than left-wingers done, who might see treating you in a special way because your sexuality as a pathway to 'salvation' and the 'second coming' of global egalitarian Utopia etc.

Dismissing people with certain opinions as 'hateful' is certianly just as an effective method of bullying and dehumanizing somebody than saying that they're 'evil', 'ugly, 'stupid' or whatever. It really destroys any sensible discussion, and by extension democracy. And I really don't get what being pro-life has got to do with one's sexuality... these people seem to agree.

Abortion isn't murder.

[Vassenor]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/07/08/anti-lgbt-christian-activists-already-calling-for-equality-to-be-rolled-back-after-brexit/

Brexit wasn't their motive, it was the resignation of Cameron, a liberal, with two of the leadership candidates strong conservatives.

“The vote for ‘Brexit’ on 23 June was a protest vote. Some parts ugly no doubt, many parts good… Brexit was a moment when, whatever you think of the outcome, the people said ‘we can’t go on like this.’

“This was a vote for change. At best, the vote to leave was a vote to reassert our foundational principle of democratic accountability. “

[Hydesland]

I never understood some people's hate for Jolt. But whatever.

It started off as mild annoyance at the constant downtime and bad servers - then a bunch of drama occurred between the admins and the Jolt staff over a bunch of things (including I think Nationstates 2), and the relationship became toxic. Moving the forums was one of the best decisions they ever made.

[Kvatchdom]

I know security concerns are one of the reasons and it's perfectly understandable. When you have an enemy, you must be wary of those who share things in common with them. It doesn't matter if no terrorist attacks have been committed by burqa wearers. The burqa presents a very clear opportunity for any would-be terrorists. You don't even have to be a woman, either, because nobody would even know unless they closely inspected you.

Say, for example, your name is John and you're a white American Christian man. I've never heard of any airport terrorist attack committed by a white American Christian man named John, but you still have to go through airport security. When it comes to potential massacres, you don't take chances. It really doesn't matter at all if nobody wearing a burqa has ever committed a terrorist act (such a claim is dubious anyway), you'll still want to deprive the enemy of opportunities to strike.

None of this has been used as an excuse by the attempts to ban the Burka. Anything presents an opportunity for would-be terrorists, the second largest terror attack in Europe was done by a Norwegian person.

There's a reason everyone has to go through the same airport security outside of random searches.

[The Feylands]

Abortion isn't murder.

I bet you can't stand watching a movie of what it looks like or wouldn't object to having pictures of the remains of aborted babies around you. It's a truly barbaric murder of a small human being and nothing else.

As for burkas... reason number 1 to ban the burka isn't because of protection from terrorism (although that is a reason as well) but because it's part of an oppressive, fascist system that has no place in Europe or any other part of the civilized world just like publicly wearing a swastika.

[Kvatchdom]

Abortion isn't murder.

I bet you can't stand watching a movie of what it looks like or wouldn't object to having pictures of the remains of aborted babies around you. It's a truly barbaric murder of a small human being and nothing else.

As for burkas... reason number 1 to ban the burka isn't because of protection from terrorism (although that is a reason as well) but because it's part of an oppressive, fascist system that has no place in Europe or any other part of the civilized world just like publicly wearing a swastika.

Forcing people to not wear a set of clothes is oppressive aswell. The best way is to not enforce it, ensure that there is no abuse within the family, and let them be if there is none.

[Gloriana Americana]

I feel bad for the Right-wingers out there that don't hate anybody, because "Right-wing" has seemingly become synonymous with "hateful/bigot/prejudiced". What a world they have to go through, being accused of believing in things they don't every day because all the popular Right-wing organizations seem to be run by regressive minds and so people don't know any better. I hope for the sake of all sane Right-wingers that hate will still becoming the forefront of their organizations and that people will stop and realize that tolerance isn't restricted to the Left.

I also wish people would stop ignoring the Center. We exist, people.

[Ifreann]

I never understood some people's hate for Jolt. But whatever.

It started off as mild annoyance at the constant downtime and bad servers - then a bunch of drama occurred between the admins and the Jolt staff over a bunch of things (including I think Nationstates 2), and the relationship became toxic. Moving the forums was one of the best decisions they ever made.

It was funny when the first reply would end up as the OP of a thread when the servers re-synced. Until you tried to read the thread and it was full of replies coming before the posts they were quoting.

[Katganistan]

I'll be honest, I originally left NS due to the large amount of right-wingers. I just didn't feel welcome here.

Just fight em' back. I'm a right-winger/centrist, and I'm certainly not gonna call you a "lib-tard".

[quick mod aside]And there, folks, is exactly what's needed to get along here -- debate, not rage-shrieking, flaming and poo-flinging from one's place on the socioeconomic political spectrum(whichever it might be: left, right or center).

[Gloriana Americana]

Abortion isn't murder.

I bet you can't stand watching a movie of what it looks like or wouldn't object to having pictures of the remains of aborted babies around you. It's a truly barbaric murder of a small human being and nothing else.

No, it's not, and to suggest otherwise is pure pseudoscience. In order for abortion to be murder, the child would have to be alive first. Thanks to advances in medical science, we now know when a fetus begins it's life cycle and the law has been adjusted to permit and restrict abortion to before said life cycle begins. It isn't murder if it's not alive, it's really that simple.

Listen, I don't agree with abortion myself. I think it's unnerving to deny a person a chance at life before it's even begun, but it's a necessity for a modern society. It controls the population, and it is neither unethical nor immoral when properly enforced. It can save the life of the mother, it can even prevent the child from denying a painful death later in life or right after being born, which is far worse than being aborted.

The argument that abortion is murder is based on nothing but ignorance. Abortion is only legal before the fetus is alive, and therefor if the fetus isn't alive yet then terminating it isn't murder. Get over it.

[Vassenor]

Abortion isn't murder.

I bet you can't stand watching a movie of what it looks like or wouldn't object to having pictures of the remains of aborted babies around you. It's a truly barbaric murder of a small human being and nothing else.

As for burkas... reason number 1 to ban the burka isn't because of protection from terrorism (although that is a reason as well) but because it's part of an oppressive, fascist system that has no place in Europe or any other part of the civilized world just like publicly wearing a swastika.

So what you're saying is that women shouldn't have the right to chose what happens with their own body because it icks you out?